What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-10-14 13:46

debiman wrote:i'll never understand why people use one of the most secure operating systems there is, only to then hand all their usage stats over to the big G...

This thread on @misc will get you reaching for the tin-foil:

https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=153736113411281&w=2

Note Theo's reaction :twisted:

debiman wrote:chrome isn't even open source!

No but www/chromium is. Chrome doesn't even work on OpenBSD.

OpenBSD users favour Chromium because of it's tight integration with both pledge(2) and unveil(2) and also because Theo says it's better than FF:

https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=152872551609819&w=2

https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=152872744210957&w=2
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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-10-14 14:16

OpenBSD users favour Chromium ---snip---

Shouldn't that be "some OpenBsd users", I know of at least 1 that doesn't , maybe "most" do but I don't know on that :
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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby debiman » 2018-10-14 14:17

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
debiman wrote:chrome isn't even open source!

No but www/chromium is. Chrome doesn't even work on OpenBSD.

strange, i wonder if i misread what ruffwoof wrote.
anyhow - show to me where *BSD removes all calls to google servers from chromium's code!

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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-10-14 14:32

Looks like that is what they said:
ruffwoof>Chrome is pretty much my gui desktop, calculator.html, text.html, online email, mp4/mp3 player ... etc. Also tracking -current myself now and Chrome + Pledge + unveil is working very well. I've also shifted from dual boots to just OpenBSD now (whole disk install).

Side note, For what ever it is worth:
show to me where *BSD removes
To lump all the bsd's into one category, is sort of like lumping all the linux distros , based on Debian, into 1 and saying "show me where the *Debians",... OpenBsd is not the other BSD's.
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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-10-14 14:49

Here is my "gui" and calculator, no need for Chrome and some website for a calculator :mrgreen:
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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-10-14 15:02

debiman wrote:i wonder if i misread what ruffwoof wrote

No, I think ruffwoof wrote "chrome" because the browser is called from a wrapper script at /usr/local/bin/chrome

debiman wrote:show to me where *BSD removes all calls to google servers from chromium's code!

AFAIK there is no such removal, the general presumption here is that because chromium is open source then the Big G would be committing commercial suicide by attempting to hide such a device in a place viewable by anybody.

GarryRicketson wrote:Shouldn't that be "some OpenBsd users"

Yes, quite right, thanks for the correction Garry :)
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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-10-14 15:13

Actually, in a way I am using "chromium" as well "Iridium" is based on chromium,... but some times I use other browsers as well.
Ahh, and on a side note, I also have a rather high number of packages, most are packages I don't even need or use, but installed when I was trying to run some tests, or see if I could duplicate a problem some one else was having. On the VM's I have even more.
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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby ruffwoof » 2018-10-14 23:19

Yep! Should have said Chromium as that's what's installed, but you run chrome from the command line or wherever to run it.

I have a /etc/hosts snippet that blocks google (and facebook) that I append to Steven Blacks hosts list (that's as good as ad-block). Not sure how that google list was formed (many I suspect were mapped using traffic flows), but it does a good job and the browser is much quicker at loading some web pages that otherwise can be very sluggish to load/view. When I do want to do a google type thing I just revert to Steven Blacks list only as a temporary measure. I set /tmp as my chromium disk-cache-dir so pretty much start off with a clean browser at each reboot. I don't store bookmarks in chromimum either, I maintain my own html file for those that shows the date/time in the tab title.

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Normally I have tmux and chrome maximised and just flip between the two with alt-tab (and then select the relevant tab/window in either chrome or tmux for the thing I want to do). No root actions within X (that runs as user (no su or doas/sudo)), I use the console (ctrl-alt-F1) only for root actions. Docs/data are stored under root ownership and fed in/out of user's sight on a as-and-when basis.

Chrome(ium) in OpenBSD 6.4 with unveil and pledge is pretty much sandboxed, when running under user ... well privilege elevation in OBSD is tough to say the least (randomised kernel, fileid's, process id's, write xor execute memory separation, no setuid's ...etc. etc.).

Try for instance installing xdotool (for simplicity), open a xterm window and su into root within that. Open another xterm window as user and run something like
Code: Select all
xdotool search --name xterm
to identify the first xterm's window id, and then run
Code: Select all
xdotool windowactivate 6291469 type "$(printf 'date\r')"
but substituting the window id from earlier instead of 6291469 that was the window id in my case. You could have run rm -rf / (DON'T), or targeted perhaps a file manager window running as root to stuff keystrokes to perhaps use its open-terminal-here option and then stuff keystrokes into that root xterm window. A very trivial example of how a single browser flaw (Firefox tend to publish details of how remote code exploits were available in older versions) could open up remote command execution at the level the browser was running under (user), and where that could facilitate elevation to root if another window were running something as root.
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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby pawRoot » 2018-10-15 00:55

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:However, there is no way that an installed package can expose a vulnerability


It can on Windows :mrgreen: (not sure about Linux)
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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-10-15 05:07

^ It's probably a bad idea to have a full build system installed because this can potentially allow an attacker to make their own toolkit... :cry:
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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby Nili » 2018-10-17 12:14

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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby debiman » 2018-10-21 12:07

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
debiman wrote:show to me where *BSD removes all calls to google servers from chromium's code!

AFAIK there is no such removal, the general presumption here is that because chromium is open source then the Big G would be committing commercial suicide by attempting to hide such a device in a place viewable by anybody.

commercial suicide?
why so? phoning home is considered utterly normal these days, and 99% of exploitable data providers (a.k.a. "users") don't care or understand either way.
please have a good look at this, esp. around "Most of the additional features..."

btw, i don't mean to lump anything together.
i'd be happy to see such proof from any one of the BSDs.

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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-10-21 12:54

debiman wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
debiman wrote:show to me where *BSD removes all calls to google servers from chromium's code!

AFAIK there is no such removal, the general presumption here is that because chromium is open source then the Big G would be committing commercial suicide by attempting to hide such a device in a place viewable by anybody.

commercial suicide?
why so?

Well it seemed to cause a bit of a fuss the last time Google were caught with their hand in the cookie jar:

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments ... mium_devs/

EDIT: for the record, I am not bothered about data harvesting from my machine, it is a non-issue for me. I do not store sensitive information on electronic devices, that would be foolish.

p.s.

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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby ruffwoof » 2018-10-26 18:55

OpenBSD 6.4

My primary daily system is basically just base OpenBSD that includes a httpd server, X, window manager(s) ...etc. + chromium + mc (file manager/text editor). With that I can cover most of my needs - word processor (text -> html -> PDF using chromium), mp4 player, online email ...etc. And as Chromium is now both pledged and unveiled ... as good as sandboxed.

As I use ddns so my desktop system is also a server (can share stuff using the httpd server etc.), and I also have it setup so I can ssh into it remotely. Console/cli stuff for that is great as you can use practically any low powered device to ssh in and re-attach to a tmux session that is running mc, alpine (mail), calcurse (calendar/diary) ...etc. As long as the device can ssh then the load is very (very) low. And its all consistent across devices/locations.

Attached shows a split tmux pane (that when using you can zoom in/out), but personally I don't tend to use such split panes, instead I just just a single maximised window for each program in separate tmux windows and I've set F12 to step between those, i.e. top of screen shows separate tmux windows for mc, alpine, calcurse (the visible window in the image), cmus music player, lynx web browser and ispell.

Image

I leave a (cwm window manager) 1 pixel top of screen 'gap', so I can click the desktop even when windows are maximised to show the cmw menus and flip between them that way, however as I tend to only have chromium and tmux 2 windows, alt-tab between them is easier (or alt down arrow)

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Re: What does your non-Debian desktop look like?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-10-26 19:37

@ruffwoof: do you use xenodm?

OpenBSD -current lost the ability to `startx` in this morning's snapshot, I am not happy.

I think this will also apply to 6.4 -stable once the patch is applied.

EDIT: also, those dotted lines in the terminal programs can be made solid by using the stock xterm (bitmap) font; it's the only one that actually renders correctly, IMO.
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