Forbidden Countries Issue

[BowCatShot]

"Not everything turns out like it was planned...."

How true. I would say that hardly anything turns out like it was planned.

[Hallvor]

Eventually the good guys will win but it seems that first a lot of pain and discomfort has to take place.

The "good guys" always win because it is they who eventually write history. Of course they write they are the good guys. (If the real good guys always won, would the world look like this?)

[BowCatShot]

"The "good guys" always win because it is they who eventually write history. Of course they write they are the good guys. (If the real good guys always won, would the world look like this?) "

If the real good guys didn't eventually win I and possibly you wouldn't exist.

[Hallvor]

If the real good guys didn't eventually win I and possibly you wouldn't exist.

Really? Please explain.

[vmamonov]

If the real good guys didn't eventually win I and possibly you wouldn't exist.

afraid of "evil commies"?

[canci]

I think that by cutting off the average Joe (what's the average Joe called in Iran? Average Dario?) from the world only makes them side even more with their government's propaganda. If the "others" are so benevolent, maybe they should do just the opposite -- provide channels where average Darios can learn more about the other side of the coin that is being presented in a subjective light by their own government. This way it looks to me that such measures are only in place to provoke these countries' citizens even further into perpetuating the hatred and stereotypes -- a good way to make money with guns, especially when your economy is going down the drain and giving the lead up to China and others. But I'm going to stop myself here from fear of being banned due to political bias.

[BowCatShot]

"afraid of "evil commies"? "

The evil commies and/or the evil nazis would have murdered all of my grandparents. And that ain't no wink.

[llivv]

the internet is the purest evil ever invented...
can I get an amen sisters and brothers?

and for our younger viewers here:
say goodbye texting machines
amen?

[Hallvor]

The evil commies and/or the evil nazis would have murdered all of my grandparents. And that ain't no wink.

I have studied some German history, and I can guarantee you that German history books, in case of a German victory in 1945, would portray the war as a successful defense of Germany against evil communists, capitalists and "world Jewry" hellbent on destroying Germany and enslaving Europe.

But since the other side won, it was portrayed as the "good guys" defeating authoritarianism and militarism.

In other words, the "good guys" would have won in any case.

[canci]

I have studied some German history, and I can guarantee you that German history books, in case of a German victory in 1945, would portray the war as a successful defense of Germany against evil communists, capitalists and "world Jewry" hellbent on destroying Germany and enslaving Europe.

As someone who lives in a country which has at least 3 versions of the recent Yugoslav wars depending on whom you ask (and no real winner, which makes it even more complicated), I see your point.

[BioTube]

My guess is that neither the government nor the nation of Persia, with a history and culture as long and impressive as it is, likes it to get told "to watch its tongue". Especially not by a child (seen in terms of history).

My point was that the Iranian government's rhetoric's pretty much all the US's has to excuse its behavior.

[BowCatShot]

"I have studied some German history, and I can guarantee you that German history books, in case of a German victory in 1945, would portray the war as a successful defense of Germany against evil communists, capitalists and "world Jewry" hellbent on destroying Germany and enslaving Europe.

But since the other side won, it was portrayed as the "good guys" defeating authoritarianism and militarism.

In other words, the "good guys" would have won in any case."

Liberal atheistic college professors love to chant the mantra in their classrooms that there is no good nor evil, there is no right or wrong, that all is relative. Then as soon as someone steps on their toes they squeal "that's not right".

[nadir]

and here comes the amen for llivv:
amen.

[Hallvor]

Liberal atheistic college professors love to chant the mantra in their classrooms that there is no good nor evil, there is no right or wrong, that all is relative. Then as soon as someone steps on their toes they squeal "that's not right".

I think you are missing the point. This was never meant to be a Nietzschean debate on morality on my part. This is more about how people perceive themselves than about good and evil in itself. It is in human nature to think of themselves as on the side of good, and people with opposite values as evil. And I can assure you even the most oppressive government and terrorist organization will think of themselves as on the side of good against whatever small or great "Satan" they are fighting. (An exception was a very few Norwegian "satanists" in the mid 90s, who openly said they were "evil" and opposed Christianity. It backfired, of course, because they were identifying with a figure from Christianity and implicitly said that Christianity was good!) Now, as we all know, we also identify ourselves and our values as good. And whatever the outcome, people who perceive themselves as representing the side of good will be victorious will write history and denounce the other guys as evil.

[nadir]

I am quite sure that most historians agree with Hallvor
(We too got that saying in the classroom: "Die Geschichte wird von den Siegern geschrieben").

And, when you think about it:
Germany has been evil, once the war was won Russia was evil, short after that Germany (which didn't change that much) was good.

The Russians have been evil, the Taliban have been the good ones and were supported with weapons and all. Suddenly the Taliban are the evil ones.

I am quite sure that for the bigger part of the world population the USA (or the G7) are not the good ones.

When F.Castro, an obvious evil one, had a speech in front of the UNO nearly the whole world gave him standing ovations for his insight and hist resistance against the obvious good ones.
They did so for several minutes.

Shall i give more examples?

[eric1959]

http://prisonplanet.tv/

[julian67]

Man, history certainly does repeat itself, doesn't it? I remember the days of Radio Free Europe when the suppressive regimes of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union criminalized the dissemination of information. In the end the people found a way and freedom sprang forth.

Now it's happening with the internet. Eventually the good guys will win but it seems that first a lot of pain and discomfort has to take place.

The above is unadulterated nonsense.

Perhaps you've been listening to so much propaganda that you can't tell fact from fiction, or one fiction from another?

Radio Free Europe didn't begin broadcasting until several years after the fall of Nazi Germany. Secondly how old are you anyway? The Nazi regime ended 66 years ago. To have any kind of credible personal recollection of it you'd need to be approaching 70 and to have been an amazingly politically conscious toddler, some kind of political prodigy. To have a personal recollection of Radio Free Europe broadcasting you would have had to be in Europe, not the US! To have a personal recollection of RFE broadcasting to Nazi Germany you'd have to be living in an alternative universe because it never happened in this one.

It looks to me like your personal recollections are as reliable and credible as one of those Stalin era show trials, probably because they were beamed into your mind by means of TV and radio and then given a good stir with a blunt mixer.

[aspnair]

It's sad that even on the Internet I'm not spared from human stupidity

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein.

[Mr James]

Man, history certainly does repeat itself, doesn't it? I remember the days of Radio Free Europe when the suppressive regimes of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union criminalized the dissemination of information. In the end the people found a way and freedom sprang forth.

Now it's happening with the internet. Eventually the good guys will win but it seems that first a lot of pain and discomfort has to take place.

The above is unadulterated nonsense.

Perhaps you've been listening to so much propaganda that you can't tell fact from fiction, or one fiction from another?

Radio Free Europe didn't begin broadcasting until several years after the fall of Nazi Germany. Secondly how old are you anyway? The Nazi regime ended 66 years ago. To have any kind of credible personal recollection of it you'd need to be approaching 70 and to have been an amazingly politically conscious toddler, some kind of political prodigy. To have a personal recollection of Radio Free Europe broadcasting you would have had to be in Europe, not the US! To have a personal recollection of RFE broadcasting to Nazi Germany you'd have to be living in an alternative universe because it never happened in this one.

It looks to me like your personal recollections are as reliable and credible as one of those Stalin era show trials, probably because they were beamed into your mind by means of TV and radio and then given a good stir with a blunt mixer.

Awesome post.

[vmamonov]

The evil commies and/or the evil nazis would have murdered all of my grandparents. And that ain't no wink.

Would have? What do you mean, together? Are you really seriuos?
How old are you, and where do you live?