Why we hate Windows and Microsoft

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Why we hate Windows and Microsoft

Postby Four23619 » 2012-01-31 03:24

Ok, so here is an interesting article I would like you to read. it's very long, but very good. It highlights some points about why we hate Windows and Mickeyshaft. Feel free to add your own, bash Windows and MS anyway you like and for whatever reason. Add your own experiences and testimonials, not only yours but others you know or whatever you have seen and heard.. Also, use this material to educate people on the matter, where possible. And if possible, use these resources to get them on Debian / Linux. I'll be adding more to this thread later, I thought I'd get it started for now.

http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html

XP and its successor Vista still suffer from the architecture-related driver problems that have caused so many Windows crashes in the past. In an attempt to get rid of the problem, Microsoft tried to persuade PC manufacturers to abandon the PCI expansion bus. The fact that this recommendation was immediately rejected by the hardware industry is irrelevant; the point is that Microsoft tried to get rid of expansion bus support rather than improve Windows' architecture to make it robust. When this attempt failed, they resorted to their second option, which was to discourage (in XP) and prevent (in Vista) the user from installing any device driver that hasn't been tested and certified not to cause OS instabilities.


Just one of the many, many fun quotes from the above article.

Knock yourselves out, more coming :)
Last edited by Four23619 on 2012-02-07 08:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby vbrummond » 2012-01-31 04:00

I mainly dislike Windows because they have the audacity to charge me money, I deign me pay it because I only heard of windows (and barely of mac), and still ask me to call them and register when something goes wrong on their end. No.

I have too much manner to simply rip on them so ill counter with something nice. NT itself seems pretty fast and trim.
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby Four23619 » 2012-01-31 04:32

I agree, I believe all operating systems should be free of charge, if not open source. At least for home users, I haven't any problem with business paying for the OS, although ideally it would be free for them too. But home users should not have to. Anyway, I'd like to point out another reference, this time it's an MS internal memo (one among thousands):

http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/iowa/www.iow ... X03096.pdf

I quote:

We are here to help MICROSOFT


It is our job to ensure that those choosing an operating system are presented with an overwhelming abundance of evidence and reasoned arguments in favour of our standards - so overwhelming that the choice of our standards seems obvious, or (ideally) that the developer is not even aware that a decision was faced, and a choice made.


It just goes on and on. one of the MANY reasons why I hate Mickeyshaft.
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby bw123 » 2012-01-31 05:53

Wow, you know all that stuff used to bug me, but now it just seems like a bad dream. I don't even bash Micro$oft much anymore, when I hand out free Live CD copies I just say, "You won't believe it."
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby dust hill resident » 2012-01-31 06:04

Heh heh. I like to use Windows 98 on a few older computers. Honestly, I fuckin' love it. It just feels right.
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby Randicus » 2012-01-31 06:11

I am not defending Microsoft. I hate it with a passion. However,
Four23619 wrote:I agree, I believe all operating systems should be free of charge, if not open source. At least for home users, I haven't any problem with business paying for the OS, although ideally it would be free for them too. But home users should not have to.

There is a slight flaw in this line of thinking. Why should only operating systems be free to everyone? Why not the computers they are used on? Why should people pay for telephones?
There is nothing wrong with someone selling a product, including a computer OS, if the quality is sufficient to justify the cost. Which, of course, is not the case with Microsoft. Considering the low quality, they should pay people to use it.
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2012-01-31 06:30

Four23619 wrote:I agree, I believe all operating systems should be free of charge, if not open source. At least for home users, I haven't any problem with business paying for the OS, although ideally it would be free for them too. But home users should not have to.
Why?
What about food, or shoes or flat screen TV's?
Is a company selling a product that they have invested a lot of money developing, producing and distributing not entitled to profit from that investment?
Being a commercial enterprise, they are required to return a profit to their shareholders.
I have no problem with this and neither do the majority of PC users that pay for and use their products.

Notwitstanding their monopolistic practices, including dodgy deals with OEM's to bundle Windows with hardware and file format lock-in etc. for which they should rightly be condemned, for the majority of users MS products do the job they need done at a price they are willing to pay.
They may not be perfect or priced as eveyone may like, but the fact that ~90% of PC's run Windows proves that by and large it fits the bill for most people.

Now you and I and some others prefer a "free" OS, in my case at least it has nothing to do with the price in dollars.

I admire, and support as I can, the principals and efforts of the Debian project and consider it important that a "free" OS is continuing to be developed and is available for all to use and modify, without restriction by licence or price.

While I am not above some cheap jibes at the expense of MS and their users on occasion, this type of 'religious' ranting is puerile and smacks of fanboi-ism to the exclusion of rational debate.

It does nothing to enhance the reputation of the free software movement and will not win any "converts".

In any case it is not a competition and engaging in a pissing contest is pointless.

You can point out the (obvoius to us) issues with proprietary OS's and enlighten those who are interested in the advantages of free software without "hating" or "bashing" or misspelling ( :roll: ) Microsoft.
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby Randicus » 2012-01-31 06:37

dilberts_left_nut wrote:Now you and I and some others prefer a "free" OS, in my case at least it has nothing to do with the price in dollars.
I admire, and support as I can, the principals and efforts of the Debian project and consider it important that a "free" OS is continuing to be developed and is available for all to use and modify, without restriction by licence or price.

+1 8)
I do not use GNU-Linux because it is free. I use it because a good OS, like Debian, has superior performance. Being free of charge is a bonus.
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby cannae » 2012-01-31 06:38

I take a practical approach to this problem and I think a lot of others do to. If I pay $1500 for a gaming system, I'd obviously use Windows. If I built a mini-ITX HTPC, then I'd try out Open Elec or fiddle with Debian. If I built a new laptop, I'd use Debian or something which would fit the bill. I use what fits me overall. Simple. On the why we hate part, yes, Windows, can be a lot better if they deconstucted it, stripped out the old remnants, and rebuilt it from scratch, but then everyone would piss and moan even if its a good decision. Then profits would drop. And Microsoft is all about profit. If that new rebuilt Windows is fit for what I need it for, I'd buy it, not whinge. It all comes down to practicality. BTW, Windows really should be rebuilt. Its built off old tech, it really needs a rebuild not refresh.
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Postby nadir » 2012-01-31 08:18

It would help to enhance the reputation of Microsoft a lot if "they" would not hide such possibilities:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysi ... 45027.aspx
in the middle of nowhere.
I always forget the name, go do the download center, and what i find there is:
http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/default.aspx
Searching for anything does not not help. So people download freeware, and what they get for free is seldom what they wanted for free :lol:
(i found the link about the sysinternals in a youtube video which described how to crack Windows. Very strange that then/there you will find it, but not on the official pages, no?).

I think one can have fun with Windows too: bblean, cygwin, etc. The power-shell seems to have more power than the old one too. On the other hand: why would one want to use cygwin if one can have a system which is build like that from the top to the bottom? I am busy enough getting my head into UNIX, and to me Microsoft looks like a temporary vogue anyway (no need to learn it when it will be gone anyway).

The network center is crap, that is for sure.

Grain of salt: i don't know Windows well. I use it every other day, see how far i can get... thats all.
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby richard1558 » 2012-01-31 10:16

I do not hate Microsoft or Windows I just like GNU/Linux more, and it is not about the money.

The only thing that is keeping a Windows OS on my second Hard Drive are the Games.
Sure, I can run Games through Wine, but not the newest Games, as my Laptop can barely handle them on Windows.

Lately I got bored of video games in general so I have not switched to Windows since about ~1 Month or so.
I am very picky when it comes to video games :P, finding new ones is a daunting task.
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby kedaha » 2012-01-31 11:49

Randicus wrote:I am not defending Microsoft. I hate it with a passion. However,
Four23619 wrote:I agree, I believe all operating systems should be free of charge, if not open source. At least for home users, I haven't any problem with business paying for the OS, although ideally it would be free for them too. But home users should not have to.

There is a slight flaw in this line of thinking. Why should only operating systems be free to everyone? Why not the computers they are used on? Why should people pay for telephones?
There is nothing wrong with someone selling a product, including a computer OS, if the quality is sufficient to justify the cost. Which, of course, is not the case with Microsoft. Considering the low quality, they should pay people to use it.

But is software the same as material goods? To what extent, if any, is the consumer actually acquiring a product? If I buy a product, be it computer or a telephone, it belongs to me rather than just a license to use Microsoft's OS (see Criticism_of_Microsoft). Then there is the question of price as discussed, for example here:
A better question is how do software companies get away with charging so much? Software is not like making a car. Once you've made one copy of your software, the production costs to make a million more are tiny (there's a good reason Microsoft has so many billions in the bank).
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby Randicus » 2012-01-31 12:08

kedaha wrote:But is software the same as material goods?

Yes. Goods and services are both products of a business. If a make a car, it is reasonable to sell it to you, but it is not reasonable for me to charge you a fee if I have a car wash, because I am providing a service, not a material product? :?
kedaha wrote:Then there is the question of price as discussed, for example here:
A better question is how do software companies get away with charging so much?

That is irrelevant to both my point and dilberts_left_nut's. A business or single business person may charge as much or as little for their products and services as they like. If customers do not feel the price is justified, they will not buy the goods. Again, the logic that says if something is over-priced it should be given away free, is twisted logic. I have a choice between buying Microsoft and paying about 25¢ American for a CD and down-loading a free OS that is of higher quality. If Microsoft want me to buy their product, they must offer me a product worth buying. If people feel the price is too high, it should not be free. They should buy something else (or get a free OS).
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby sossego » 2012-01-31 12:54

Image
Image
Let my desire and hope surpass my expectations;
And give me the strength to persevere through doubt.
Grant me the wisdom to exceed my bounds.
Let my eyes always see through the dream fog of childhood,
so that every moment may be treasured.
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Re: The Why we hate Windows & MS or Let's bash Windows threa

Postby nadir » 2012-01-31 13:18

As far i know the problem is not that they sell software, but:
In the proprietary software industry, an end-user license agreement or software license agreement is the contract between the licensor and purchaser, establishing the purchaser's right to use the software.



Once i posted anyway here is a bit more:
Some EULA form contracts accompany shrink-wrapped software that is presented to a user sometimes on paper or more usually electronically, during the installation procedure. The user has the choice of accepting or rejecting the agreement. The installation of the software is conditional to the user clicking a button labelled "accept". See below.

Many EULAs assert extensive liability limitations. Most commonly, a EULA will attempt to hold harmless the software licensor in the event that the software causes damage to the user's computer or data, but some software also proposes limitations on whether the licensor can be held liable for damage that arises through improper use of the software (for example, incorrectly using tax preparation software and incurring penalties as a result). One case upholding such limitations on consequential damages is M.A. Mortenson Co. v. Timberline Software Corp., et al.

Some EULAs also claim restrictions on venue and applicable law in the event that a legal dispute arises.

Some copyright owners use EULAs in an effort to circumvent limitations the applicable copyright law places on their copyrights (such as the limitations in sections 107-122 of the United States Copyright Act), or to expand the scope of control over the work into areas for which copyright protection is denied by law (such as attempting to charge for, regulate or prevent private performances of a work beyond a certain number of performances or beyond a certain period of time). Such EULAs are, in essence, efforts to gain control, by contract, over matters upon which copyright law precludes control.[citation needed]

In disputes of this nature, cases are often appealed and different circuit courts of appeal sometimes disagree about these clauses. This provides an opportunity for the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene, which it has usually done in a scope-limited and cautious manner, providing little in the way of precedent or settled law.[


I tried to read the license at Microsoft itself, but for unknown reason it crashed several times, so i went for wikipedia. From there are the quotes, search term is "EULA Microsoft".
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