Why such hostility lately?

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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby bw123 » 2012-02-18 16:15

try this

Code: Select all
man hostility


haha just teasing
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby iceman » 2012-02-18 17:12

bw123 wrote:try this

Code: Select all
man hostility


haha just teasing



You are right. I should have rtfm first. What was I thinking :twisted:
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby dbruce » 2012-02-18 21:18

iceman wrote:
dbruce wrote:Some people never outgrew the need to throw tantrums, or just see if they can get a reaction and maybe some attention.


If this is true, I hope it is only temporary. Good thing is many that use Linux are not like this. But the ones who are, are the most noticed.

Well those types have been around as long as I can remember. The mystery IMO is why various forums go through 'cycles'. It isn't just forums.debian.net (though I gather we are in one of those cycles) or even Linux or tech forums generally. 12+ years ago I was a very active user on a big web forum at that time (non-tech) and what started off as a helpful, polite place degenerated into nothing but a huge pissing contest that lasted for probably over two years. I can't say what happened, I don't think it was a problem with moderation ..... just that times changed, some new participants with different attitudes came onboard, and it all just got real nasty. Things finally turned around but by then key members had moved on and started alternative forums, and it's never returned to anything like its original 'glory'. Hope that doesn't happen here.
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby iceman » 2012-02-18 23:12

dbruce wrote:
iceman wrote:
dbruce wrote:Some people never outgrew the need to throw tantrums, or just see if they can get a reaction and maybe some attention.


If this is true, I hope it is only temporary. Good thing is many that use Linux are not like this. But the ones who are, are the most noticed.

Well those types have been around as long as I can remember. The mystery IMO is why various forums go through 'cycles'. It isn't just forums.debian.net (though I gather we are in one of those cycles) or even Linux or tech forums generally. 12+ years ago I was a very active user on a big web forum at that time (non-tech) and what started off as a helpful, polite place degenerated into nothing but a huge pissing contest that lasted for probably over two years. I can't say what happened, I don't think it was a problem with moderation ..... just that times changed, some new participants with different attitudes came onboard, and it all just got real nasty. Things finally turned around but by then key members had moved on and started alternative forums, and it's never returned to anything like its original 'glory'. Hope that doesn't happen here.



Good point with the cycles observation. I never thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense and explains quite a bit.
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby cynwulf » 2012-02-19 00:13

Randicus wrote:Personally, I believe the easiest way for a forum (any forum, not this one in particular) to deal with such trouble makers is to simply revoke their registrations. That is my opinion, because I have no trouble with authoritarian environments. If fora were stricter in enforcing decorum, it would be more difficult for trouble makers to raise a ruckus

And eventually it'd be just you and then, presumably, no more "trouble" eh...? I feel it's fair to say that luckily for the rest of us, you're not in a position of authority here.

vbrummond wrote:Heh, I half agree. A lot of times I think how much I would ban were I the dictator.

It's a slippery slope - dictators almost always abuse their power and when everyone else is just a pawn in one person's game it's just a little perverse...

In truth there is no correct way to run any forum - but it's far better to let people do their own thing than to impose unrealistic restrictions - the more you tighten up and the more rules you make, the more rules are there to be broken, dodged or hurled back in your face by "rules lawyers". A forum becomes worthless when it becomes the pet project of a dictator or an elite few and the user base become mere statistics. This is what they have over at some other well known GNU/Linux fora. "bean counting" systems where the fanboi masses provide volunteer tech support in order to increase the "score" and the authoritarian volunteer staff ensure that everything runs smoothly by censoring and removing the undesirables and encouraging and promoting the fanbois who have shown they can suck up well and parrot forum policy. At such fora, members are not treated as people but as an expendable "resource" to provide free tech support and bring in ad revenue. It is accepted that most will never be long term.

I've seen many decent forums fall apart due to the introduction of such authoritarian policies. This is simply because boards with 20 pages of rules and omnipresent moderation attract unimaginative dullards and arseholes who also aspire to be mods. Decent people leave, diversity - one of the most important factors in any forum, suffers and the forum declines.
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby dasein » 2012-02-19 00:59

BowCatShot wrote:If most of you cowards would tell someone to RTFM to their face they'd knock you on your A$$.

Am I the only one who finds the presence of this statement in a thread about hostility profoundly ironic?
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby Randicus » 2012-02-19 01:05

Randicus wrote:(I can foresee the ruckus this post will cause. :twisted: )

But it took longer than I expected.
@cynwulf
I wrote nothing about a forum dictator, although if the autocrat in charge is intelligent, the forum would be run well.
You are correct that too many rules restricts a forum to the point of being useless, but the absence of rules is much worse. The message I get from your post is that you are advocating no rules. If I am wrong, I apologise for mis-interpreting.
but it's far better to let people do their own thing than to impose unrealistic restrictions - the more you tighten up and the more rules you make, the more rules are there to be broken, dodged or hurled back in your face
Not allowing trouble makers, who are quaintly called trolls on computer fora, to insult other members, use copious amounts of profanity and post obnoxious and/or obscene material is an unrealistic restriction?
This resonates with the attitude of many DUF members. If there are no rules everything will be good, because in a democracy everyone does the right thing. (I am not making this up. It was a response to something I wrote.) I disagree with that idea. But to each his own.
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby iceman » 2012-02-19 01:20

I personally think the Debian forums, over all, are much better then most Linux based forums I have been to. Nothing is perfect or 100% but the majority of people here seem to be pretty mature.

I wonder though. All these variations of distros. If in part that has to do with the forums and any problems they may have there. I can see things breaking off at times for specialized distros. Maybe there are other issues as well.
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby Randicus » 2012-02-19 01:25

iceman wrote:I personally think the Debian forums, over all, are much better then most Linux based forums I have been to. Nothing is perfect or 100% but the majority of people here seem to be pretty mature.

I agree. Most of this forum's members are mature and reasonably intelligent. It is a good place to interact. :D
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby nadir » 2012-02-19 01:27

Randicus wrote:
iceman wrote:I personally think the Debian forums, over all, are much better then most Linux based forums I have been to. Nothing is perfect or 100% but the majority of people here seem to be pretty mature.

I agree. Most of this forum's members are mature and reasonably intelligent.

A pity you are not one of them
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby vbrummond » 2012-02-19 01:32

I meant the dictator of all not just the forum. :) :lol:

Edit: But yes being serious. I think base rules such as if you are being a jerk or posting pointless spam you will get modded is all you really need.
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby bw123 » 2012-02-19 01:48

Tell you what, even with the hostility I learn an awful lot on here. Let's all drink beer and celebrate, then rtfm tomorrow?
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby beardedragon » 2012-02-19 07:06

To be honest, most of us have so much on our plate that it seems to flow over into everything we say and do. It's not fair, those of you I have had confrontations with, I apologize.
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby HungGarTiger » 2012-02-19 11:49

nadir wrote:
Randicus wrote:
iceman wrote:I personally think the Debian forums, over all, are much better then most Linux based forums I have been to. Nothing is perfect or 100% but the majority of people here seem to be pretty mature.

I agree. Most of this forum's members are mature and reasonably intelligent.

A pity you are not one of them


You are right, he moved to China and seems to have done well intergrating with a new culture and language. What a loser :roll:
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Re: Why such hostility lately?

Postby Randicus » 2012-02-19 12:17

HungGarTiger wrote:You are right, he moved to China and seems to have done well intergrating with a new culture and language. What a loser :roll:

Thanks for the support, but don't bother arguing. I have an easier way. Today I started adding trolls to an ignore list.
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