What does debian need to get people from other distros

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kenny · #1 Post by **kenny** » 2006-10-25 21:52

Debian is to me almost perfect, it has a big repository and is very stable, but it lacks some eyecandy to me, maybe some bootscreens, a better default theme for gnome... i know this is not really relevant for the system itself but it will certainly make it more attractive to new linux users. What do you guys think?

the debian website can be a bit more inviting too

thamarok · #2 Post by **thamarok** » 2006-10-26 06:36

kenny wrote:Debian is to me almost perfect, it has a big repository and is very stable, but it lacks some eyecandy to me, maybe some bootscreens, a better default theme for gnome... i know this is not really relevant for the system itself but it will certainly make it more attractive to new linux users. What do you guys think?

the debian website can be a bit more inviting too

If you want more eyecandy, look for Ubuntu. I know it's another distro but it's Debian based. Before I came to Debian, I used Ubuntu and Kubuntu.....
But if you want to use only Debian, I think there are HOWTOs on how to get more eyecandy.

Debian is very great, but in my opinion, SUSE and Red Hat are better for servers.. And Debian uses DEBs, the other distros mostly use RPMs and then it could get a little hard for people to get the software they need.

_FOCUS_ · #3 Post by **_FOCUS_** » 2006-12-03 13:42

deb can change grup interface. But I think we can made any bmp image to it as bground image. Other side I like its writing at opening from mandrivas picture or windows's. may be letters colourfull.

it is good for me.

Lavene · #4 Post by **Lavene** » 2006-12-03 14:13

I think Debian targets the typical 'Debian user'. Ubuntunizing Debian seems kinda silly dosen't it? I mean... Ubuntu already did that.

I have the impression that the typical Debian user is somewhat experienced with Linux, knows what (s)he want more or less, have a fairly good idea about how she wants the desktop etc. If you browse the forums you will in fact see that quite a few people actually comes *from* Ubuntu.

I really like it the way things are. Eyecandy, bootscreens and all other kinds of bells and whistles is often pretty easy to aquire... it can however be a real PITA to get rid of.

I like to be in controll of my system (I have already bitched about Debian now having a default desktop in another thread

). I like to see what it does during boot, I like to decide how my desktop should look like etc etc.

Basically, to me Debian is freedom and it's what makes me stay with Debian.

Tina

DeanLinkous · #5 Post by **DeanLinkous** » 2006-12-03 18:18

I have tried numerous times to respond on this thread but it never comes out very nice. I think Tina stated it very well so I will simply second it.

I personally like to bling out my car, buying a car already blinged would just mean I would have to un-bling it and then re-bling it.

rickh · #6 Post by **rickh** » 2006-12-03 23:49

Debian should not be trying to lure people from other distros. When they get sophisticated enough, they'll migrate to Debian naturally, and their experience will be much better that way.

So will ours, because that way we avoid have to answer all the newbie questions 15 times per day.

ghostdawg · #7 Post by **ghostdawg** » 2006-12-04 03:06

Debian is Debian just the way it is. As rickh said, people will come to it when they feel ready. The good thing about it is you can do whatever you want with Debian as far as looks and feel!

sargek · #8 Post by **sargek** » 2006-12-04 04:04

rickh wrote:Debian should not be trying to lure people from other distros. When they get sophisticated enough, they'll migrate to Debian naturally, and their experience will be much better that way.

So will ours, because that way we avoid have to answer all the newbie questions 15 times per day.

I agree in that no distro should be "luring" others away. The fact we are using an Opensource OS is enough for me. As for answering noob questions, what's wrong with that? We are certainly not so high and mighty we can't help out others in the Opensource community. I've been using FOSS for 10 years and was a noob back when Linux was uber-geekish. I like answering noob questions - helping others is what the Opensource community is all about.

DeanLinkous · #9 Post by **DeanLinkous** » 2006-12-04 04:11

Yes helping others is fantastic, doing and doing and doing for others is NOT! Helping others when they also help themselves is great, doing everything for them is not.

But I think he was saying by that time they won't need to ask "newbie" questions so we won't have to answer them.

sargek · #10 Post by **sargek** » 2006-12-04 04:25

DeanLinkous wrote:Yes helping others is fantastic, doing and doing and doing for others is NOT! Helping others when they also help themselves is great, doing everything for them is not.

But I think he was saying by that time they won't need to ask "newbie" questions so we won't have to answer them.

Point taken - I understand, and agree. I agree people need to help themselves, but I have seen countless posts which slam noobs for simply asking a question. I guess I get on my soapbox too easily...

Dargor · #11 Post by **Dargor** » 2006-12-04 09:57

I think more people (noobs) would use debian if it had more just-works stuff, not that anything is to hard for anything with half a brain and half an hour couldnt figure out. But that would drive some people, those that like control optimization etc, away. But yea debian isnt about converting its about choices, do we want people who just want things to work without and intrest in how in our forums any way(not trying to beat on those new comers amongst us).

sargek · #12 Post by **sargek** » 2006-12-04 11:37

Dargor wrote:I think more people (noobs) would use debian if it had more just-works stuff, not that anything is to hard for anything with half a brain and half an hour couldnt figure out. But that would drive some people, those that like control optimization etc, away. But yea debian isnt about converting its about choices, do we want people who just want things to work without and intrest in how in our forums any way(not trying to beat on those new comers amongst us).

Good example - I switched to Debian as a long time Gentoo user, where I had ultimate control, but tired of the long updates, system builds and potential breakage. I stay away from distros that won't let me do any tweaking because I enjoy some measure of control over the system. Debian is, for me, the perfect mix of stability, speed and control.

Dargor · #13 Post by **Dargor** » 2006-12-04 20:24

"What does debian need to get people from other distros"
I suppose Window$ isnt a distro but i just thought i'd mention Gaming

sargek · #14 Post by **sargek** » 2006-12-05 00:53

Dargor wrote:"What does debian need to get people from other distros"
I suppose Window$ isnt a distro but i just thought i'd mention Gaming

Good one! That's the only reason I used windoze anyway...

_FOCUS_ · #15 Post by **_FOCUS_** » 2006-12-15 14:18

I saw yesterday. There is some packeges for graphical booting. Super karamba is in repository. İn last update debian is very good I think. During to boot best important think must be time. not its looking.

michael7 · #16 Post by **michael7** » 2006-12-16 01:04

If I'd been asked this question 18 months ago, I would have responded that ease of installation was an issue worthy of attention. Well, the team has been working on it and now installation is damned easy. Thank you, Debian!

SkyNet2029 · #17 Post by **SkyNet2029** » 2007-01-11 07:56

I have the impression that the typical Debian user is somewhat experienced with Linux, knows what (s)he want more or less, have a fairly good idea about how she wants the desktop etc. If you browse the forums you will in fact see that quite a few people actually comes *from* Ubuntu.

~Lavene

Exactly. There is always KDE and Superkaramba, if that's your bag. But having the ability to choose whether or not to have these installed at all is a big plus, as far as I am concerned.

As far as a bootsplash, it is (again, just my 2 cents here) easier to see just how bad you overloaded your boot process when not using the splash. I found myself always having to edit the grub-loader to remove '-quiet' from its line when I ran kubuntu, but then I like to know exactly what is going on with my processes.
Debian is by far the easiest distro I have ever had to config, being more logic-based , than it's evil little spawn that is Ubuntu, but it goes without saying that you have to start somewhere, so why not let the Noobs press on with Ubuntu (Hey, it's like Debian on crack, methinks.) and when the user is ready, surely they will see the light that is Debian.

So, Debian needs nothing as far as luring new users, as eventually the migration will end up there anyway.

Absent Minded · #18 Post by **Absent Minded** » 2007-01-12 07:46

I have enjoyed reading through this thread. I have been very happy with the way Debian is. I enjoy the freedom that I have and that my choosen GUI's are NOT hacked to pices. There are a few packages that I would like to use in Debian but even with Alien they will not work. No bigie. I sometimes miss being able to use a graphical interface to view AND configure my hardware. However I can look to see what my system thinks it has and go from there... I am still keeping an eye on a couple of "NEW" Debian based distros for Grandma and cousin Archie (so to speak) as most of my friends, family and peers want it EASY as in "I don't want to have to have a brain to use it, it should just work." Which is great but I am tired of trying to recover their data when WinXX goes TU for the 350 thousandth time. Yes I can say no ... but then for instance my Dad who cannot afford to live already will go without eating so he can have his computer fixed. I don't find that as a caring trade off. The solution ... a NO BRAINER linux that just works. I get to sleep at night even as I can live with myself and still don't have to work on computers all night as well as all day. Perfect !! But as of yet there is only close replicas of the final product.
Michael

Lavene · #19 Post by **Lavene** » 2007-01-12 11:54

First I should say that this is not directly aimed at your family Absent...

I think that rather trying to make a system that's so easy to use that anyone with half a brain can use it in their sleep one should try to make the 'stupid' understand that a computer system is a very advanced piece of machinery. It's a fact that people will spend more time trying to learn their new TV remote than their new computer because they have been told that it's 'easy' to use.

When it crash and they loose their twenty page paper because they haven't saved it they blame the computer: "It never told me to save!"
When their HD goes belly-up and they loose everything they blame the computer for not making backups(!). Stuff that's unnecessary that it's not even funny.

I have been using computers since the dawn of the 'home computer'. I used Windows from 3.0 through XP and been using Linux exclusively for more than two years. And I have never ever lost anything important! Why? When I write something in any kind of word processor I have the habit of saving every time I stop typing for a few seconds. I back up my data regularly and often enough to make sure a crash will not wipe out something important. Just last week I experienced my first ever crash on Linux... it wiped my system pretty much clean. A few hours later I was up and running again. Total dataloss: 4 bookmarks and an e-mail address.

It doesn't take any skill, it doesn't take much time and it's pretty much fool proof. People don't need to be CS majors to operate their computers, they only need to respect it. Most stupid computer users are only stupid because they are always told that all they need to know is how to turn it on, and therefore *refuse* to learn anything.

But teach someone to save and back up rather than try to make a system that does it for them. Because that system *will* fail... that's the whole point in doing it manually.

People don't need someone to set up a fool proof system, they just need to be told they are not a fool...

Tina

Absent Minded · #20 Post by **Absent Minded** » 2007-01-12 13:10

I do agree Tina and I actually got a kick out of your post. I know it wasn't really ment to be funny but I couldn't help but relate to what you had to say. My family dose a prety good job thesedays of keeping things backed up ... even if that means finding time for me to make an immage of their system. Mainly thesedays I find myself responding to the non-catastrofic types of crashes. Types of things that just wouldn't be happining on a typical Linux system.
I was utterly amazed though the other day ... my power went out while I was writing an e-mail. Loosing power a few years ago could have cost me my linux install. However, not only was my install perfactly fine but when I opened KMail there was my 2/3rds written e-mail waiting for me. I was minus a few lines but never the less there it was. I was completely amazed.
Michael

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What does debian need to get people from other distros

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