A word of "I HATE YOU"

[SibirskiiVolk]

Oh and you might try testing your self on this machine, a fresh installation wouldn't start, plymouth seems to freeze while booting

why are you using plymouth then?

send me the machine and I will take care of it

Shouldn't I use a software that I love? well sending the machine wont be easy, mail services are not trusted these days
I'm telling you the problem is not plymouth, it's the ATI driver, it's broken, the recovery mode don't start either, so debugging is kinda hard here.
actually we verified that the cause of this problem is the ATI driver, we tried a fresh install from the same testing DVD on a copy of that machine, another machine with an ATI hybrid graphics card, a machine with a GMA X3100 (Kinda old) and an machine with NVidia card
it only worked with the nVidia and the intel machine, so if that helps, we might need to check the ATI free driver (the driver also crashes on the same machine on an upgraded from Squeeze machine, I had to try different combinations of Xorg, mesa and xserver-xorg-video-radeon) and it seems to work fine from the upgraded version, but still the issue exists when I try to chroot and install these packages for the fresh installation.

[cynwulf]

Well, testing suited me until the Squeeze became stable, I'm not talking about bugs, I'm talking about nonsense software, kids and minimum levels of QA.

No idea what you're talking about, name names, give detailed examples and define the "nonsense software" please.

Don't lecture me about opensource, other Debian derivatives, I know my needs pretty well, and It used to be Debian Testing.

It used to be, clearly it isn't any more. Debian may never again suit your needs and ranting here is unlikely to change that.

You don't need to tell me how to contribute

Is ranting here contributing? Do you think devs are reading? Tried the mailing list or actually getting involved to try and make a difference? Reported bugs? Removed the "nonsense software"?

so please stop taking things in a defensive way, we all need Debian to prosper, this is the thing about FreeSoftware, common good for all.

But you're still ranting at the wrong people...

[cynwulf]

Shouldn't I use a software that I love?

"Nonsense software"?

I'm telling you the problem is not plymouth, it's the ATI driver, it's broken, the recovery mode don't start either, so debugging is kinda hard here.
actually we verified that the cause of this problem is the ATI driver, we tried a fresh install from the same testing DVD on a copy of that machine, another machine with an ATI hybrid graphics card, a machine with a GMA X3100 (Kinda old) and an machine with NVidia card
it only worked with the nVidia and the intel machine, so if that helps, we might need to check the ATI free driver (the driver also crashes on the same machine on an upgraded from Squeeze machine, I had to try different combinations of Xorg, mesa and xserver-xorg-video-radeon) and it seems to work fine from the upgraded version, but still the issue exists when I try to chroot and install these packages for the fresh installation.

So... what exactly has the proprietary ATI/AMD binary driver got to do with Debian...?

[sportscrazed2]

Weird I hate people who use testing or unstable and then bitch when an update breaks something. That is the whole point in testing/unstable is that they are the development grounds for the next stable. Sometimes fixing one thing breaks another. Stable is released when all the major broken stuff is fixed. So if you want stable use stable. Otherwise if you find a bug report it or fix it but don't complain.

[SibirskiiVolk]

Weird I hate people who use testing or unstable and then bitch when an update breaks something. That is the whole point in testing/unstable is that they are the development grounds for the next stable. Sometimes fixing one thing breaks another. Stable is released when all the major broken stuff is fixed. So if you want stable use stable. Otherwise if you find a bug report it or fix it but don't complain.

I don't hate you, the title is kinda metaphoric, it refers to the developers not you poor users, you share the same experience that I face, so This thread is for people who hates the kids writing those buggy software.

Shouldn't I use a software that I love?

"Nonsense software"?

I'm telling you the problem is not plymouth, it's the ATI driver, it's broken, the recovery mode don't start either, so debugging is kinda hard here.
actually we verified that the cause of this problem is the ATI driver, we tried a fresh install from the same testing DVD on a copy of that machine, another machine with an ATI hybrid graphics card, a machine with a GMA X3100 (Kinda old) and an machine with NVidia card
it only worked with the nVidia and the intel machine, so if that helps, we might need to check the ATI free driver (the driver also crashes on the same machine on an upgraded from Squeeze machine, I had to try different combinations of Xorg, mesa and xserver-xorg-video-radeon) and it seems to work fine from the upgraded version, but still the issue exists when I try to chroot and install these packages for the fresh installation.

So... what exactly has the proprietary ATI/AMD binary driver got to do with Debian...?

I said the free driver, not the proprietary driver, actually I'm amazed by the free driver "never worked for me before"

and no sir, plymouth isn't nonsense software, when I said nonsense software I meant something that is obsolete or not needed any more "who would still need a PDP emulator? who has a trident graphics card?" these things are dead already, I used to use these machines many years ago, but I wouldn't even find them anymore, If you find a machine with Neomagic, tell me so I can happily purchase .

[debil]

The most efficient code is 0 bit in size.

Please start living up to your sig and stop using computers altogether.

please start reading something about computer history

It wouldn't make any difference: you'd still be spreading your bold-lettered drivel and I still couldn't figure out what the hell your problem was.

[cynwulf]

I said the free driver, not the proprietary driver

Debian do not develop the xf86-video-radeon driver either. If you think the problem arises from any Debian patches, then you should report a bug.

and no sir, plymouth isn't nonsense software, when I said nonsense software I meant something that is obsolete or not needed any more "who would still need a PDP emulator? who has a trident graphics card?" these things are dead already, I used to use these machines many years ago, but I wouldn't even find them anymore, If you find a machine with Neomagic, tell me so I can happily purchase .

What's nonsense to you is not nonsense to another user.

[sportscrazed2]

Weird I hate people who use testing or unstable and then bitch when an update breaks something. That is the whole point in testing/unstable is that they are the development grounds for the next stable. Sometimes fixing one thing breaks another. Stable is released when all the major broken stuff is fixed. So if you want stable use stable. Otherwise if you find a bug report it or fix it but don't complain.

I don't hate you, the title is kinda metaphoric, it refers to the developers not you poor users, you share the same experience that I face, so This thread is for people who hates the kids writing those buggy software.

Shouldn't I use a software that I love?

"Nonsense software"?

I'm telling you the problem is not plymouth, it's the ATI driver, it's broken, the recovery mode don't start either, so debugging is kinda hard here.
actually we verified that the cause of this problem is the ATI driver, we tried a fresh install from the same testing DVD on a copy of that machine, another machine with an ATI hybrid graphics card, a machine with a GMA X3100 (Kinda old) and an machine with NVidia card
it only worked with the nVidia and the intel machine, so if that helps, we might need to check the ATI free driver (the driver also crashes on the same machine on an upgraded from Squeeze machine, I had to try different combinations of Xorg, mesa and xserver-xorg-video-radeon) and it seems to work fine from the upgraded version, but still the issue exists when I try to chroot and install these packages for the fresh installation.

So... what exactly has the proprietary ATI/AMD binary driver got to do with Debian...?

I said the free driver, not the proprietary driver, actually I'm amazed by the free driver "never worked for me before"

and no sir, plymouth isn't nonsense software, when I said nonsense software I meant something that is obsolete or not needed any more "who would still need a PDP emulator? who has a trident graphics card?" these things are dead already, I used to use these machines many years ago, but I wouldn't even find them anymore, If you find a machine with Neomagic, tell me so I can happily purchase .

Not everyone shares the same experience as you. Like I said Debian testing/sid are development branch for the next stable release. If you are using anything but stable you should expect an occasional bug or two. These branches exist so that all the bugs get worked out before the next stable release. These branches aren't meant to bug free and never promised to be.

[Randicus]

it refers to the developers not you poor users, you share the same experience that I face

Although you must admit, judging from the lack of similar problems being posted by poor users, that your experience seems to be at variance with the experiences of most others. Whether the cause is hardware, the user or the intervention of malevolent deities.
But at least you have provided an example of a problem that those in the know may be able to help with. It would have been better to begin the thread with that, instead of ranting. That is what attracted so-called "defensive" replies.

However, your continual reference to developers as children is little ridiculous.

And I hope things go well for everyone in the Land of the Nile.

[traveler]

Face palm thread if ever one existed. Some users simply aren't qualified to run sid. BTW, please post the links to all the bugs you've fixed so we can all recognize your contributions.

[Ibidem]

By the way, you may want to install firmware-linux-nonfree and/or blacklist radeonfb if you have problems with the radeon driver.
(On some cards radeonfb is unuseable but gets loaded when radeon firmware are missing.)

For getting a shell, I find that init=/bin/sh (or your preferred shell) is the surest way to circumvent a broken system.

And I shall add: Testing means "we don't know if it works for everyone, so we're letting everyone see if it works for them; please tell us if you have a problem"

Now time to see how my Sid/Experimental system is doing (I got impatient waiting for the lesstif->motif transition.)

[traveler]

why bother trying to help this knob? he already knows everything...