What laptop to buy?

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What laptop to buy?

Postby Leo'z » 2017-06-02 13:44

Hi everyone!
I'm a beginner in debian but I like libre philosophy. I want to buy a new good laptop and I saw a Dell 7720 that run ubuntu. I want to know if that dell is good for use with debian because I have other laptop dell and I've try to install debian but it showed me network drivers' errors but in ubuntu it don't show them.
Please help me.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby arochester » 2017-06-02 13:55

This one? http://www.linlap.com/dell_inspiron_17r_special_edition

It is no good telling us that there are "network drivers' errors" without telling us exactly and fully what they were.

In Debian to get wifi to work you need to first, edit the sources list and second, add the firmware (driver).

Look at e.g https://linuxpanda.wordpress.com/2014/0 ... -8-jessie/
or https://linuxpanda.wordpress.com/2016/1 ... n-stretch/
"Something to be aware of: Debian is a core or source distribution. This means there are many Debian-based distributions. THEY ARE NOT DEBIAN."
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby dasein » 2017-06-02 14:02

Leo'z wrote:I have other laptop dell and I've try to install debian but it showed me network drivers' errors but in ubuntu it don't show them.

That's going to happen a lot. Ubuntu deliberately makes setup easier by including non-free components (including firmware, drivers, etc.), whereas Debian does not.

By any measurable criteria you'd care to think of, Debian is harder/more time-consuming to set up. If you are uncomfortable with that idea, you'd be better off staying with Ubuntu.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby alan stone » 2017-06-02 16:10

dasein wrote:If you are uncomfortable with that idea, you'd be better off staying with Ubuntu.

Or you might consider this and ask what they provide laptopwise.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby Bulkley » 2017-06-02 17:53

Leo'z, do a little research. Shop around and make notes on what equipment is available. Bring your notes home and use your search engine. Find out how well things work with Linux.

Generally, products that are at least six months old are more likely to work with Linux. You can often get good deals by buying last year's model.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby hthi » 2017-06-02 17:54

leoz, you should discard dasein's answer. He is known to rather spend time telling you, you should find the answers yourself, than telling you the answers. You have chosen debian and that is an applaudable decision. You know about libre software, which is important. It is correct that debian is not as easy to manage as ubuntu.

About your notebook and its wifi card not working on debian.
That is a very common event about debian. You cannot expect all notebook devices to work when you install debian. It is common that wifi card, sd card reader and ethernet will not work.
If you can accept installing non free software on your debian notebook, you may do this

Install the software-properties-gtk package.
Find software and updates in applications
Start software and updates.
In debian software mark all boxes.
Close software and updates.
Restart the computer.
Install the linux-firmware-nonfree package.
Restart the computer.

Maybe now your wifi card will work.
If your notebook's wifi card does not work, you will have to identify your wifi card. Do this

In applications open a command line.
Enter sudo lspci.
In the output find what model the wifi card is.
Then ask on this forum or another gnulinux forum for a debian driver and firmware.

Another option is to ask about the wifi card's driver and firmware on an ubuntu forum.
You know the wifi card works on ubuntu. Ask how to idenify and copy the wifi card's driver and firmware.
If you get to copy the driver and firmware, then ask on the debian forum how to install the software.

Another option is to get another wifi card for your notebook.
The atheros ar9565 wifi card is known to run on libre debian software.
But some notebooks are made such that you cannot use another wifi card model.

About getting a notebook which will have all devices working, when you have installed debian.
Noone can tell what devices will work when you install debian on a notebook.
If you are located in a country where you can return a computer, you do not want, you can install debian on an usb stick or hdd. Get the computer.
Run debian on the usb memory stick or hdd. Test what devices work. If devices do not work and you cannot get them to work, then return
the computer.

At thinkpenguin.com you can buy debian notebooks. There are other vendors too.

To those who answer questions on this forum.
It is correct that debian is more difficult than ubuntu in getting the computer to work.
During installation of debian you may not be able to get an internet connection.
After installation you have to deal with configuring software sources. And getting computer devices to work. After that you have a
working gnulinux computer and debian is much like ubuntu.
There is a difference in how ubuntu forums are, compared to this forum. On this forum much more often, you get answers like search on
the internet or do some reading. I find that wrong. You cannot expect people to read a lot. Internet searches can lead to very technical
websites, which are not usable.
You should not write answers which in reality say, you should stop using debian. You are doing libre software and debian a disfavor. Debian is important because you have a bigger say, if you want your system to be libre software. More people using debian is important.
I understand that it can be tiresome for you to write answers. If you get a difficult question, then it is a strain for you to answer. If the question is trivial, then why bother answer? That is why I thank people if I get an usable answer.
A compromise could be, if you cannot or will not write a directly usable answer, I am not saying you should not display links about further readings, then do not answer. That way the questioner gets only usable answers. If the questioner seldom gets answers, he will get the picture.
I have said this before and to no avail, I know of.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby debiman » 2017-06-02 18:28

Re: What laptop to buy?

- Not a new one!

Linux is always developed after the hardware comes out.

for the newdebian stable, everything 1 year and older should be fine.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-06-02 18:52

--edited---
+100
Postby debiman » 2017-06-02 12:28
Re: What laptop to buy?

- Not a new one!

All the Dells that I did install Debian to were older, the new stuff is
getting worse every year.
---- end edit----

If somebody is un-willing, or not capable of reading some documentation,
and taking the time,and effort to learn how to setup and configure Debian,
or any other OS
Then they should just buy/use a computer with a OS pre-installed,
I've try to install debian but it showed me network drivers' errors but in ubuntu it don't show them.

There is plenty of documentation on getting and installing the drivers and firm ware on the Debian wiki and web site, as well as other sites.

There is no point in trying to explain and re-write the instructions when it is obvious the person will not read anything.

So in a nut shell, if one is not capable of installing a OS, then they need to
buy something with the OS they want pre-installed.

Or do some searches, read the documentation and manuals, and then
if there is still questions , or unexpected problems, ask here.

by Leo'z »I want to know if that dell is good for use with debian


I have installed Debian to several Dell laptops, and the firmware,etc, with no problems. If that is what the OP is asking, Dell seems to be able to support Debian. Also works fine on a Dell desktop PC,.... I found the information
I needed about the firm ware, here:

Firmware and drivers for Debian, on a Dell laptop
-------------------
https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/i386/ch06s04.html.en
-----------------------------------
Actually, the below is new, I never saw it before:
https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Dell

As far as this goes
it showed me network drivers' errors

Well, usually/often, if one copies/pastesthe error message into a search engine , there will be results based on those error messages.
Usually/often, if the OP takes the time to copy/paste the error messages
to their post, /question , someone can and will give some good answers,
use "code boxes" for posting the devices and error messages,please.
Nobody can give any kind of clear answer when the OP does not even bother to tell us what the error messages were.

Not sure what was said here:
Code: Select all
This post was made by hthi who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.
 
"What we expect you have already Done"

Before doing anything, read the Debian documentation:
Debian Documentation
How to ask the smart way
Debian Foro Español
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby HuangLao » 2017-06-02 19:58

ThinkPenguin is very good (they also offer a nice VPN setup), just make sure you tell them you want Debian otherwise the default is Trisquel, not a bad system but not Debian either.

Personally, I have always preferred either building a system or just buying a good "off-lease" business desktop or laptop. They are usually 3 years old or so, and are refurbished to factory original standards (which may include new parts etc...). My last purchase was an HP AMD Athlon II, 1.5 T. hard drive, 8 GB DDR3 for about $159 US. if somewhere near North America check out TigerDirect.com if not then shop around for off lease systems. :)

My wife has a 9 year old Gateway laptop running Trisquel that just keeps chugging along.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby ruffwoof » 2017-06-03 10:43

Consider suppliers

For instance Chinese hardware such as Lenova can contain factory installed firmware based virus (lower prices can be a incentive to spread such virus).
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby orythem27 » 2017-06-03 10:53

Each laptop model need to be inspected independently regardless of their brands. Find out the exact model of its major components (e.g. ethernet chipset, wireless chipset, GPU...) and do researches on their linux compatibilities. If not sure, ask here with the exact models of its components.

Ususally it's not enough to determine the exact model of a laptop's major components by its model number, e.g. Dell 7720. The manufacturer might shift between different parts in different batches. For example, earlier batches use Intel® Wireless 7265, but shifted to Realtek RTL8723BE in later batches to save cost. In this case, the later batches would cause you more trouble.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby None1975 » 2017-06-03 11:35

Leo'z wrote:Hi everyone!
I'm a beginner in debian but I like libre philosophy. I want to buy a new good laptop. Please help me.

Here a list of computer vendors that pre-install Debian https://www.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
OS: Debian 9.2 / WM: Awesome WM
Debian Wiki | DontBreakDebian
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby horgh » 2017-06-03 13:36

Check out a company called System 76. I'm not sure if they'll install Debian for you but their stuff should support Linux well.

Some of the Dells that come preinstalled with Ubuntu are a decent idea too. You can always reinstall for Debian. The hardware will likely be more compatible. Plus you'll be supporting suppliers that are Linux friendly and you won't be paying for Windows! I'd be a bit cautious about the latest XPS 13 though. There have been some issues with its hardware.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby d3viant » 2017-06-03 17:28

When you purchase the pre-installed Ubuntu/Debian laptops, do the projects get a % of the sale price?
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby stevepusser » 2017-06-03 17:58

hthi wrote:leoz, you should discard dasein's answer. He is known to rather spend time telling you, you should find the answers yourself, than telling you the answers. You have chosen debian and that is an applaudable decision. You know about libre software, which is important. It is correct that debian is not as easy to manage as ubuntu.

About your notebook and its wifi card not working on debian.
That is a very common event about debian. You cannot expect all notebook devices to work when you install debian. It is common that wifi card, sd card reader and ethernet will not work.
If you can accept installing non free software on your debian notebook, you may do this

Install the software-properties-gtk package.
Find software and updates in applications
Start software and updates.
In debian software mark all boxes.
Close software and updates.
Restart the computer.
Install the linux-firmware-nonfree package.
Restart the computer.

Maybe now your wifi card will work.
If your notebook's wifi card does not work, you will have to identify your wifi card. Do this

In applications open a command line.
Enter sudo lspci.
In the output find what model the wifi card is.
Then ask on this forum or another gnulinux forum for a debian driver and firmware.

Another option is to ask about the wifi card's driver and firmware on an ubuntu forum.
You know the wifi card works on ubuntu. Ask how to idenify and copy the wifi card's driver and firmware.
If you get to copy the driver and firmware, then ask on the debian forum how to install the software.

Another option is to get another wifi card for your notebook.
The atheros ar9565 wifi card is known to run on libre debian software.
But some notebooks are made such that you cannot use another wifi card model.

About getting a notebook which will have all devices working, when you have installed debian.
Noone can tell what devices will work when you install debian on a notebook.
If you are located in a country where you can return a computer, you do not want, you can install debian on an usb stick or hdd. Get the computer.
Run debian on the usb memory stick or hdd. Test what devices work. If devices do not work and you cannot get them to work, then return
the computer.

At thinkpenguin.com you can buy debian notebooks. There are other vendors too.

To those who answer questions on this forum.
It is correct that debian is more difficult than ubuntu in getting the computer to work.
During installation of debian you may not be able to get an internet connection.
After installation you have to deal with configuring software sources. And getting computer devices to work. After that you have a
working gnulinux computer and debian is much like ubuntu.
There is a difference in how ubuntu forums are, compared to this forum. On this forum much more often, you get answers like search on
the internet or do some reading. I find that wrong. You cannot expect people to read a lot. Internet searches can lead to very technical
websites, which are not usable.
You should not write answers which in reality say, you should stop using debian. You are doing libre software and debian a disfavor. Debian is important because you have a bigger say, if you want your system to be libre software. More people using debian is important.
I understand that it can be tiresome for you to write answers. If you get a difficult question, then it is a strain for you to answer. If the question is trivial, then why bother answer? That is why I thank people if I get an usable answer.
A compromise could be, if you cannot or will not write a directly usable answer, I am not saying you should not display links about further readings, then do not answer. That way the questioner gets only usable answers. If the questioner seldom gets answers, he will get the picture.
I have said this before and to no avail, I know of.


Dasein made two statements:

Debian is more difficult than "newbie-friendly" distros (Ubuntu as an example) to set up.

Ubuntu makes things more friendly for beginners by including non-free firmware by default.

Which of those do you think aren't true? I'd love to hear your reasoning.
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