Novel approach - Is it possible ?

New to Debian (Or Linux in general)? Ask your questions here!

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby p.H » 2018-04-13 13:27

What is the benefit of using GRUB4DOS (which IIRC is based on the obsolete GRUB 0.9/1 aka GRUB legacy) over the regular and modern GRUB 2 provided by Debian ?
p.H
 
Posts: 402
Joined: 2017-09-17 07:12

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby golinux » 2018-04-13 14:05

p.H wrote:What is the benefit of using GRUB4DOS (which IIRC is based on the obsolete GRUB 0.9/1 aka GRUB legacy) over the regular and modern GRUB 2 provided by Debian ?

GRUB 2 is a bit of a bloated hairball. Legacy GRUB was knowable and easy to configure. GRUB 2 foreshadowed the complexity of systemd, GTK3 etc. These days "modern" means an opaque black box.
May the FORK be with you!
User avatar
golinux
 
Posts: 1343
Joined: 2010-12-09 00:56
Location: not a 'buntard!

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby p.H » 2018-04-13 14:19

GRUB 2 is bloated, yes, but extra features come at a cost. I would not trade all the extra features of GRUB 2 for the alleged simplicity of GRUB legacy.
p.H
 
Posts: 402
Joined: 2017-09-17 07:12

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby pcalvert » 2018-04-13 17:48

p.H wrote:What is the benefit of using GRUB4DOS (which IIRC is based on the obsolete GRUB 0.9/1 aka GRUB legacy) over the regular and modern GRUB 2 provided by Debian ?

It's smaller, simpler, and much easier to use. Those characteristics make GRUB4DOS a better choice for use on devices like boot floppy disks and bootable USB flash drives.
“Property is the fruit of labor; property is desirable; it is a positive good
in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become
rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise.”
— Abraham Lincoln
pcalvert
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: 2006-04-21 11:19
Location: Sol Sector

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby stevepusser » 2018-04-13 19:05

I have GRUB 2 in MX Linux set to boot from the last booted entry if I don't touch anything, and I also have entries in it to boot Windows 10 or go to the UEFI setup if I want that were created automatically, so it has to be possible to do the same in Debian. But that stuff's voodo to me...I used GRUB Configurator to set the default boot option in a GUI, too.

I Imagine that you could add an boot entry in there using the UUIDs for the USB drive that would only work if it was plugged in, but I am still having trouble with exactly why.
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: GIMP 2.10.2, Pale Moon 27.9.3, wine-staging 3.11, QuiteRSS 0.18.11, Linux kernel 4.17, Krita 4.1.0
User avatar
stevepusser
 
Posts: 9708
Joined: 2009-10-06 05:53

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby PlaneAnimal » 2018-04-14 14:12

As to why ? No big secret as I have already explained.

As mentioned earlier, a bit of voodoo for myself also. But then if we don't try we won't learn.

Will try the grub configurator, have not seen that yet.
PlaneAnimal
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 2018-04-11 18:25

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-04-14 14:37

PlaneAnimal wrote:if we don't try we won't learn.

Will try the grub configurator, have not seen that yet.

If you want to learn about GRUB configuration then avoid abstraction tools and do it yourself instead:

https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manua ... -scripting

A Debian system only requires 5 lines in grub.cfg to boot and one of those is the closing curly bracket ;)
Charlie don't hack
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 7629
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby pcalvert » 2018-04-14 18:14

PlaneAnimal wrote:Hmmm, something to look into GRUB4DOS.

Here are a couple of links to more info:
http://www.rmprepusb.com/tutorials/grub4dos
http://reboot.pro/forum/66-grub4dos/
“Property is the fruit of labor; property is desirable; it is a positive good
in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become
rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise.”
— Abraham Lincoln
pcalvert
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: 2006-04-21 11:19
Location: Sol Sector

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby PlaneAnimal » 2018-04-14 19:33

Thank you, for the links, had a quick look, lots of good reading to digest and see how to use.
PlaneAnimal
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 2018-04-11 18:25

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby ruffwoof » 2018-04-14 23:03

I installed Debian (so grub2) first, then installed grub4dos ... that as the default option chains to the grub2 boot. I like grub4dos for its simplicity and its what many Puppy Linux boot hints reference. grub4dos doesn't however support chainloading to a OpenBSD bsd.rd file whereas grub2 does (but I can boot directly to my installed OpenBSD directly from grub4dos.

I have three partitions, first and second are both ext3 (as ext3 can be mounted as though it were ext2 from OpenBSD, but mounted as though it were ext4 from Linux). The first is where the grub4dos menu.lst and grub2 are installed, and that also houses Debian and Puppy linux boots. The second partition I treat as data, i.e. I mount that both from Linux and OpenBSD. The third partition is where OpenBSD is installed (and it internally 'partitions' that as part of the default installation).

One of the unofficial Puppy Linux type offerings is a set of 'dogs'. Of which one is a DebianDog. Basically a Debian installation into a compressed squashed filesystem (SFS) i.e. single file. The boot for that sets up a environment in memory and then mounts that filesystem ... so it all runs in ram. At the end (or at intervals) you can save all changes made i.e. that creates a overlay that indicates any changed files between the main SFS and the latest snapshot. Or you can just shutdown without saving.

Yes it is possible to boot from USB and run on HDD, or just run from USD or just from HDD ...etc. Or even boot and run from a mini sandisk. Booting a USB along with using full HDD encryption for instance is a way to keep your data more secure - lose your laptop but still have the USB and the thief wont be able to view your laptop content type security.
Was dual booting Debian and OpenBSD, but solely OBSD now.
Acer Aspire M3201 (2GB), Radeon HD3200, AMD Phenom X4
ruffwoof
 
Posts: 246
Joined: 2016-08-20 21:00

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby ruffwoof » 2018-04-14 23:17

My grub4dos menu.lst boots look like ...

Code: Select all
title chain grub2
find --set-root /boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img
kernel /boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img
boot

title BSD sda4
root (hd0,3)
makeactive
chainloader +1
boot


The first is the chainloader to Debian (grub2) boot, the second boots OpenBSD

My grub2 boot includes a entry of ...
Code: Select all
menuentry 'OpenBSD bsd.rd' {
kopenbsd /bsd.rd
}


That boots a bsd.rd file (OpenBSD install ram disk image) downloaded to the root / folder. grub4dos doesn't support that kopenbsd command. So from within Debian I can ftp to OpenBSD and download a bsd.rd to the / folder and then reboot and follow the chainload from gru4dos to the grub2 boot menu, then select that OpenBSD bsd.rd option, which then puts me into a OpenBSD installation sequence. Takes around 5 minutes to install via http (that bsd.rd file is very small) using a cli installation process that is mostly just a matter of pressing ENTER repeatedly (assuming you already have a partition formatted to type a6).
Was dual booting Debian and OpenBSD, but solely OBSD now.
Acer Aspire M3201 (2GB), Radeon HD3200, AMD Phenom X4
ruffwoof
 
Posts: 246
Joined: 2016-08-20 21:00

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby PlaneAnimal » 2018-04-15 00:08

Thanks ruffwoof, seems like you have already accomplished what I was wondering. You gave some good info which I will try out.
PlaneAnimal
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 2018-04-11 18:25

Re: Novel approach - Is it possible ?

Postby p.H » 2018-04-15 08:33

stevepusser wrote:I Imagine that you could add an boot entry in there using the UUIDs for the USB drive that would only work if it was plugged in

This relies on the BIOS firmware exposing the USB drive to GRUB even when not booting from it. Most BIOS firmwares expose all internal drives, but some BIOS firmwares expose a USB drive (as hd0) only when booting from it, and do not expose it when booting from another drive.

GRUB 2 has its own IDE, AHCI and USB native drivers which bypass the firmware, but using any of them disables all firmware drives and forces to use GRUB native drivers for all drives. This is tricky because as soon as you load a single native driver, all firmware drives are disabled, including the one containing GRUB's modules. So you'd better load the driver for that drive first, or copy all the required modules into a memdisk which does not depend on any drive. In any case you'll have to update the $prefix path.
p.H
 
Posts: 402
Joined: 2017-09-17 07:12

Previous

Return to Beginners Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

fashionable