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Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
This is intended as a serious, I would like to know, question and not as a criticism or snide remark.
Why is the Debian boot sequence quite noticeably clunkier, cluttered and much slower than some others like, for example, Manjaro?
Why is the Debian boot sequence quite noticeably clunkier, cluttered and much slower than some others like, for example, Manjaro?
Last edited by llewellen on 2018-05-25 15:54, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Debian Boot Sequence
You may intend your question to sound serious, but you failed... it sounds like trolling to me. Obviously, I shouldn't take the bait...
I can't begin to imagine what a "clunkier, cluttered" boot sequence would refer to or what it would look like. And I doubt it is something anyone could quantify or measure.
As for boot up speed, my Debian Stretch system boots to the login prompt in just under 8 seconds. I haven't made any attempt to trim away unused services that might be making the boot up longer than necessary. After I login, my X11 "desktop" initializes in under 5 seconds. From where I sit, that's fast, so I haven't bothered to look into how to make it boot up faster. Even if there are other Linux distributions that boot up to a login prompt in half that time (under 4 seconds?), I don't think I would find that feature a motivation to entertain switching to the "faster booting" distribution.
I can't begin to imagine what a "clunkier, cluttered" boot sequence would refer to or what it would look like. And I doubt it is something anyone could quantify or measure.
As for boot up speed, my Debian Stretch system boots to the login prompt in just under 8 seconds. I haven't made any attempt to trim away unused services that might be making the boot up longer than necessary. After I login, my X11 "desktop" initializes in under 5 seconds. From where I sit, that's fast, so I haven't bothered to look into how to make it boot up faster. Even if there are other Linux distributions that boot up to a login prompt in half that time (under 4 seconds?), I don't think I would find that feature a motivation to entertain switching to the "faster booting" distribution.
Re: Debian Boot Sequence
I invite you to withdraw your accusation of trolling. Iasked a serious question sincerely. I would like to know what accounts for the obvious difference.tynman wrote:You may intend your question to sound serious, but you failed... it sounds like trolling to me. Obviously, I shouldn't take the bait...
I can't begin to imagine what a "clunkier, cluttered" boot sequence would refer to or what it would look like. And I doubt it is something anyone could quantify or measure.
As for boot up speed, my Debian Stretch system boots to the login prompt in just under 8 seconds. I haven't made any attempt to trim away unused services that might be making the boot up longer than necessary. After I login, my X11 "desktop" initializes in under 5 seconds. From where I sit, that's fast, so I haven't bothered to look into how to make it boot up faster. Even if there are other Linux distributions that boot up to a login prompt in half that time (under 4 seconds?), I don't think I would find that feature a motivation to entertain switching to the "faster booting" distribution.
It is not that I am mad; it's only that my head is different from yours - Diogenes of Sinope
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence
I find that Debian boots slightly faster than Arch but only after disabling the half-million[1] superfluous unit files that Debian insists on enabling OOTB, I even have to do a regular check and disable any rogue units that have been brought in by package installations and auto-enabled, it's a bit annoying tbh.
[1] Exaggerated for comic effect.
[1] Exaggerated for comic effect.
deadbang
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence
Guys, no need to feed the troll. Somewhere in this forum, I already wrote that my system was loading in nine seconds (system on hdd).
OS: Debian 12.4 Bookworm / DE: Enlightenment
Debian Wiki | DontBreakDebian, My config files on github
Debian Wiki | DontBreakDebian, My config files on github
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence
I find Debian boot times to be pretty fast. I would think that if the OP was really serious with the question he/she would post something definitive showing how, in their opinion, Debian is slow and clunky. On my PC, I go from cold start to the login prompt (lightdm) in about 10 seconds, and that includes about 4 seconds for the bios and 5 seconds for the GRUB screen timeout. I do have a SSD on SATA3, so that speeds things up considerably. And on my Intel NUC, used for home theater, it's even faster. The NUC has a 4x m.2 SSD on PCIE. It's smoking fast at startup.
I am not irrational, I'm just quantum probabilistic.
Re: Debian Boot Sequence
I had no intention of touching upon an exposed nerve of defensiveness. The question is withdrawn.
It is not that I am mad; it's only that my head is different from yours - Diogenes of Sinope
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
Fresh stretch system:
Seems pretty quick to me
I have quiet set so I see nothing during the boot process until the TTY prompt appears (promptly).
What exactly do you mean by "cluttered"?
I have no failed units:
I won't bore you with the journal contents but they look pretty "clean" to me, only a few inconsequential (and useful) warnings; no errors at all that I can see.
Code: Select all
empty@hegel:~ $ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 2.790s (kernel) + 1.684s (userspace) = 4.475s
empty@hegel:~ $
I have quiet set so I see nothing during the boot process until the TTY prompt appears (promptly).
What exactly do you mean by "cluttered"?
I have no failed units:
Code: Select all
empty@hegel:~ $ systemctl --failed
0 loaded units listed. Pass --all to see loaded but inactive units, too.
To show all installed unit files use 'systemctl list-unit-files'.
empty@hegel:~ $
deadbang
Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
@Head_on_a_Stick: Thank you for the substantive response. At the risk of inviting further flame throwers:
I'm running Debian-Testing on an ASUS X200CA (my backup experimenting laptop)
I'm running Debian-Testing on an ASUS X200CA (my backup experimenting laptop)
Code: Select all
drew@dell:~$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 4.719s (firmware) + 5.820s (loader) + 4.527s (kernel) + 54.908s (userspace) = 1min 9.976s
graphical.target reached after 28.506s in userspace
drew@dell:~$
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
Pro Tip: ignore fuckwits.llewellen wrote:At the risk of inviting further flame throwers
Code: Select all
54.908s (userspace)
That ain't right, please post
Code: Select all
systemd-analyze blame
systemd-analyze critical-chain
Code: Select all
systemd-analyze plot > boot.svg
deadbang
Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
@Head_on_a_Stick:
This hung up and did not return to the terminal prompt/cursor
Also hung up in terminal without returning to the input prompt.
systemd-analyze plot > boot.svg did nothing. Just returned to the terminal input prompt.
Code: Select all
drew@dell:~$ systemd-analyze blame
30.993s apt-daily.service
7.968s udisks2.service
7.661s ModemManager.service
7.576s NetworkManager.service
6.975s networking.service
6.819s accounts-daemon.service
6.258s speech-dispatcher.service
5.886s wpa_supplicant.service
5.818s systemd-logind.service
5.817s switcheroo-control.service
5.812s rsyslog.service
5.440s avahi-daemon.service
5.365s pppd-dns.service
5.085s exim4.service
4.687s dev-sda2.device
3.886s NetworkManager-wait-online.service
1.651s systemd-rfkill.service
1.235s keyboard-setup.service
1.000s systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-AACD\x2dAB72.service
925ms upower.service
893ms packagekit.service
878ms console-setup.service
845ms gdm.service
793ms user@115.service
740ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-6be67239\x2d5498\x2d4c44\x2d9866\x2da856e0e
686ms systemd-udevd.service
685ms systemd-modules-load.service
644ms boot-efi.mount
640ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
560ms systemd-journald.service
495ms systemd-sysctl.service
486ms apt-daily-upgrade.service
479ms polkit.service
462ms systemd-sysusers.service
450ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
435ms colord.service
412ms systemd-backlight@backlight:intel_backlight.service
399ms dev-hugepages.mount
393ms systemd-timesyncd.service
347ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
339ms systemd-remount-fs.service
333ms systemd-update-utmp.service
309ms systemd-random-seed.service
306ms systemd-journal-flush.service
300ms dev-mqueue.mount
288ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
220ms bolt.service
117ms user@1000.service
74ms systemd-user-sessions.service
64ms systemd-tmpfiles-clean.service
59ms kmod-static-nodes.service
44ms rtkit-daemon.service
13ms alsa-restore.service
10ms systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
lines 32-54/54 (END)
Code: Select all
drew@dell:~$ systemd-analyze critical-chain
The time after the unit is active or started is printed after the "@" character.
The time the unit takes to start is printed after the "+" character.
graphical.target @28.506s
└─multi-user.target @28.506s
└─exim4.service @23.420s +5.085s
└─network-online.target @23.417s
└─NetworkManager-wait-online.service @19.530s +3.886s
└─NetworkManager.service @11.952s +7.576s
└─dbus.service @11.943s
└─basic.target @11.924s
└─sockets.target @11.924s
└─avahi-daemon.socket @11.924s
└─sysinit.target @11.866s
└─systemd-timesyncd.service @11.472s +393ms
└─systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service @10.782s +640ms
└─local-fs.target @10.652s
└─run-user-115.mount @22.069s
└─swap.target @9.684s
└─dev-disk-by\x2duuid-6be67239\x2d5498\x2d4c44\x2d
└─dev-disk-by\x2duuid-6be67239\x2d5498\x2d4c44\x
lines 1-21/21 (END)
systemd-analyze plot > boot.svg did nothing. Just returned to the terminal input prompt.
It is not that I am mad; it's only that my head is different from yours - Diogenes of Sinope
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
llewellen wrote:This hung up and did not return to the terminal prompt/cursor
[...]
Also hung up in terminal without returning to the input prompt.
[...]
systemd-analyze plot > boot.svg did nothing. Just returned to the terminal input prompt.
The `systemd-analyze {blame,critical-chain}` commads are run through a pager so that you can scroll up & down and side to side ("q" will quit the pager), if that bothers you try this instead:
Code: Select all
systemd-analyze blame --no-pager
Code: Select all
inkscape boot.svg
Anyway, it looks like apt-daily.service is holding things up so investigate some more:
Code: Select all
systemctl cat apt-daily --no-pager # what does it do?
# journalctl -u apt-daily --no-pager # what's going wrong? (May be easier with the pager)
Code: Select all
# systemctl disable apt-daily
deadbang
Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
@Head_on_a_Stick: What is apt-daily.service?
Code: Select all
drew@dell:~$ systemctl cat apt-daily --no-pager
# /lib/systemd/system/apt-daily.service
[Unit]
Description=Daily apt download activities
Documentation=man:apt(8)
ConditionACPower=true
After=network.target network-online.target systemd-networkd.service NetworkManager.service connman.service
[Service]
Type=oneshot
ExecStartPre=-/usr/lib/apt/apt-helper wait-online
ExecStart=/usr/lib/apt/apt.systemd.daily update
drew@dell:~$
Code: Select all
drew@dell:~$ su
Password:
root@dell:/home/drew# journalctl -u apt-daily --no-pager
-- Logs begin at Sun 2018-05-27 06:59:54 PDT, end at Sun 2018-05-27 09:45:01 PDT. --
May 27 07:00:13 dell systemd[1]: Starting Daily apt download activities...
May 27 07:00:43 dell systemd[1]: Started Daily apt download activities.
root@dell:/home/drew# exit
exit
drew@dell:~$
It is not that I am mad; it's only that my head is different from yours - Diogenes of Sinope
Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
@Stick_on_a_Head: I found this on Ask Ubuntu:
"This is Debian bug #844453. apt-daily.service shouldn't be run during boot, but only some time afterward.
As a workaround, do sudo systemctl edit apt-daily.timer and paste the following text into the editor window:
# apt-daily timer configuration override
[Timer]
OnBootSec=15min
OnUnitActiveSec=1d
AccuracySec=1h
RandomizedDelaySec=30min
This changes the "timer" that triggers apt-daily.service to run at a random time between 15 min and 45 min after boot, and once a day thereafter."
What say you?
"This is Debian bug #844453. apt-daily.service shouldn't be run during boot, but only some time afterward.
As a workaround, do sudo systemctl edit apt-daily.timer and paste the following text into the editor window:
# apt-daily timer configuration override
[Timer]
OnBootSec=15min
OnUnitActiveSec=1d
AccuracySec=1h
RandomizedDelaySec=30min
This changes the "timer" that triggers apt-daily.service to run at a random time between 15 min and 45 min after boot, and once a day thereafter."
What say you?
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
Does apt-daily.service actually delay your desktop startup time?llewellen wrote:What say you?
As observed in the bug report, the time reported by `systemd-analyze` does *not* represent the time taken to achieve a usable desktop but rather indicates when all of the startup processes have finished.
Have you timed how long it takes for your box to show a login prompt with a stopwatch and compared it with the command output'?
deadbang
Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
Power on to login window = 70 seconds. Almost identical to what the command produced.Does apt-daily.service actually delay your desktop startup time?
As observed in the bug report, the time reported by `systemd-analyze` does *not* represent the time taken to achieve a usable desktop but rather indicates when all of the startup processes have finished.
Have you timed how long it takes for your box to show a login prompt with a stopwatch and compared it with the command output'?
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
^ Disable it then:
It just runs `apt update` every day, see /usr/lib/apt/apt.systemd.daily for the gory details.
Code: Select all
# systemctl disable apt-daily{,-upgrade}.timer
deadbang
Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
Yes but as my previous quote from Ask Ubuntu said, perhaps it shouldn't be doing that during boot. The scripit that was proposed there would delay it running until after the boot finished. Do you agree with that approach or should I just kill it altogether since I do run apt update apt upgrade manually everyday anyway.
It is not that I am mad; it's only that my head is different from yours - Diogenes of Sinope
Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
Sorry, I just re-read you post and you advise to disable it. That's what I will do.
It is not that I am mad; it's only that my head is different from yours - Diogenes of Sinope
Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]
I ran # systemctl disable apt-daily #but the boot still takes 65 seconds.
It's hanging up at a line:
/dev/sda2 : clean, 179382/30236672 files 3866965/120945920 blocks
???
It's hanging up at a line:
/dev/sda2 : clean, 179382/30236672 files 3866965/120945920 blocks
???
It is not that I am mad; it's only that my head is different from yours - Diogenes of Sinope