Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]

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Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]

Postby llewellen » 2018-05-25 01:53

This is intended as a serious, I would like to know, question and not as a criticism or snide remark.

Why is the Debian boot sequence quite noticeably clunkier, cluttered and much slower than some others like, for example, Manjaro?
Last edited by llewellen on 2018-05-25 15:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence

Postby tynman » 2018-05-25 02:31

You may intend your question to sound serious, but you failed... it sounds like trolling to me. Obviously, I shouldn't take the bait...

I can't begin to imagine what a "clunkier, cluttered" boot sequence would refer to or what it would look like. And I doubt it is something anyone could quantify or measure.

As for boot up speed, my Debian Stretch system boots to the login prompt in just under 8 seconds. I haven't made any attempt to trim away unused services that might be making the boot up longer than necessary. After I login, my X11 "desktop" initializes in under 5 seconds. From where I sit, that's fast, so I haven't bothered to look into how to make it boot up faster. Even if there are other Linux distributions that boot up to a login prompt in half that time (under 4 seconds?), I don't think I would find that feature a motivation to entertain switching to the "faster booting" distribution.
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence

Postby llewellen » 2018-05-25 03:20

tynman wrote:You may intend your question to sound serious, but you failed... it sounds like trolling to me. Obviously, I shouldn't take the bait...

I can't begin to imagine what a "clunkier, cluttered" boot sequence would refer to or what it would look like. And I doubt it is something anyone could quantify or measure.

As for boot up speed, my Debian Stretch system boots to the login prompt in just under 8 seconds. I haven't made any attempt to trim away unused services that might be making the boot up longer than necessary. After I login, my X11 "desktop" initializes in under 5 seconds. From where I sit, that's fast, so I haven't bothered to look into how to make it boot up faster. Even if there are other Linux distributions that boot up to a login prompt in half that time (under 4 seconds?), I don't think I would find that feature a motivation to entertain switching to the "faster booting" distribution.


I invite you to withdraw your accusation of trolling. Iasked a serious question sincerely. I would like to know what accounts for the obvious difference.
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-05-25 05:21

I find that Debian boots slightly faster than Arch but only after disabling the half-million[1] superfluous unit files that Debian insists on enabling OOTB, I even have to do a regular check and disable any rogue units that have been brought in by package installations and auto-enabled, it's a bit annoying tbh.

[1] Exaggerated for comic effect.
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence

Postby None1975 » 2018-05-25 14:23

Guys, no need to feed the troll. Somewhere in this forum, I already wrote that my system was loading in nine seconds (system on hdd).
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence

Postby ticojohn » 2018-05-25 14:58

I find Debian boot times to be pretty fast. I would think that if the OP was really serious with the question he/she would post something definitive showing how, in their opinion, Debian is slow and clunky. On my PC, I go from cold start to the login prompt (lightdm) in about 10 seconds, and that includes about 4 seconds for the bios and 5 seconds for the GRUB screen timeout. I do have a SSD on SATA3, so that speeds things up considerably. And on my Intel NUC, used for home theater, it's even faster. The NUC has a 4x m.2 SSD on PCIE. It's smoking fast at startup.
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence

Postby llewellen » 2018-05-25 15:54

I had no intention of touching upon an exposed nerve of defensiveness. The question is withdrawn.
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-05-27 12:05

Fresh stretch system:
Code: Select all
empty@hegel:~ $ systemd-analyze                                                     
Startup finished in 2.790s (kernel) + 1.684s (userspace) = 4.475s
empty@hegel:~ $

Seems pretty quick to me :cool:

I have quiet set so I see nothing during the boot process until the TTY prompt appears (promptly).

What exactly do you mean by "cluttered"?

I have no failed units:
Code: Select all
empty@hegel:~ $ systemctl --failed
0 loaded units listed. Pass --all to see loaded but inactive units, too.
To show all installed unit files use 'systemctl list-unit-files'.
empty@hegel:~ $

I won't bore you with the journal contents but they look pretty "clean" to me, only a few inconsequential (and useful) warnings; no errors at all that I can see.
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]

Postby llewellen » 2018-05-27 13:38

@Head_on_a_Stick: Thank you for the substantive response. At the risk of inviting further flame throwers:

I'm running Debian-Testing on an ASUS X200CA (my backup experimenting laptop)

Code: Select all
 drew@dell:~$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 4.719s (firmware) + 5.820s (loader) + 4.527s (kernel) + 54.908s (userspace) = 1min 9.976s
graphical.target reached after 28.506s in userspace
drew@dell:~$
 
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-05-27 13:59

llewellen wrote:At the risk of inviting further flame throwers

Pro Tip: ignore fuckwits.

Code: Select all
54.908s (userspace)

:shock:

That ain't right, please post
Code: Select all
systemd-analyze blame
systemd-analyze critical-chain

You could even try
Code: Select all
systemd-analyze plot > boot.svg

but I could never make much sense of that graph...
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]

Postby llewellen » 2018-05-27 14:17

@Head_on_a_Stick:

Code: Select all
  drew@dell:~$ systemd-analyze blame
         30.993s apt-daily.service
          7.968s udisks2.service
          7.661s ModemManager.service
          7.576s NetworkManager.service
          6.975s networking.service
          6.819s accounts-daemon.service
          6.258s speech-dispatcher.service
          5.886s wpa_supplicant.service
          5.818s systemd-logind.service
          5.817s switcheroo-control.service
          5.812s rsyslog.service
          5.440s avahi-daemon.service
          5.365s pppd-dns.service
          5.085s exim4.service
          4.687s dev-sda2.device
          3.886s NetworkManager-wait-online.service
          1.651s systemd-rfkill.service
          1.235s keyboard-setup.service
          1.000s systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2duuid-AACD\x2dAB72.service
           925ms upower.service
           893ms packagekit.service
           878ms console-setup.service
           845ms gdm.service
           793ms user@115.service
           740ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-6be67239\x2d5498\x2d4c44\x2d9866\x2da856e0e
           686ms systemd-udevd.service
           685ms systemd-modules-load.service
           644ms boot-efi.mount
           640ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
           560ms systemd-journald.service
           495ms systemd-sysctl.service
           486ms apt-daily-upgrade.service
           479ms polkit.service
           462ms systemd-sysusers.service
           450ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
           435ms colord.service
           412ms systemd-backlight@backlight:intel_backlight.service
           399ms dev-hugepages.mount
           393ms systemd-timesyncd.service
           347ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
           339ms systemd-remount-fs.service
           333ms systemd-update-utmp.service
           309ms systemd-random-seed.service
           306ms systemd-journal-flush.service
           300ms dev-mqueue.mount
           288ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
           220ms bolt.service
           117ms user@1000.service
            74ms systemd-user-sessions.service
            64ms systemd-tmpfiles-clean.service
            59ms kmod-static-nodes.service
            44ms rtkit-daemon.service
            13ms alsa-restore.service
            10ms systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
lines 32-54/54 (END)


This hung up and did not return to the terminal prompt/cursor

Code: Select all
 drew@dell:~$ systemd-analyze critical-chain
The time after the unit is active or started is printed after the "@" character.
The time the unit takes to start is printed after the "+" character.

graphical.target @28.506s
└─multi-user.target @28.506s
  └─exim4.service @23.420s +5.085s
    └─network-online.target @23.417s
      └─NetworkManager-wait-online.service @19.530s +3.886s
        └─NetworkManager.service @11.952s +7.576s
          └─dbus.service @11.943s
            └─basic.target @11.924s
              └─sockets.target @11.924s
                └─avahi-daemon.socket @11.924s
                  └─sysinit.target @11.866s
                    └─systemd-timesyncd.service @11.472s +393ms
                      └─systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service @10.782s +640ms
                        └─local-fs.target @10.652s
                          └─run-user-115.mount @22.069s
                            └─swap.target @9.684s
                              └─dev-disk-by\x2duuid-6be67239\x2d5498\x2d4c44\x2d
                                └─dev-disk-by\x2duuid-6be67239\x2d5498\x2d4c44\x
lines 1-21/21 (END)
 


Also hung up in terminal without returning to the input prompt.

systemd-analyze plot > boot.svg did nothing. Just returned to the terminal input prompt.
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-05-27 14:24

llewellen wrote:This hung up and did not return to the terminal prompt/cursor
[...]
Also hung up in terminal without returning to the input prompt.
[...]
systemd-analyze plot > boot.svg did nothing. Just returned to the terminal input prompt.

:lol:

The `systemd-analyze {blame,critical-chain}` commads are run through a pager so that you can scroll up & down and side to side ("q" will quit the pager), if that bothers you try this instead:
Code: Select all
systemd-analyze blame --no-pager

And as for the plot, try
Code: Select all
inkscape boot.svg

and behold the glory...

Anyway, it looks like apt-daily.service is holding things up so investigate some more:
Code: Select all
systemctl cat apt-daily --no-pager # what does it do?
# journalctl -u apt-daily --no-pager # what's going wrong? (May be easier with the pager)

Or just kill it regardless:
Code: Select all
# systemctl disable apt-daily
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]

Postby llewellen » 2018-05-27 15:58

@Head_on_a_Stick: What is apt-daily.service?

Code: Select all
 drew@dell:~$ systemctl cat apt-daily --no-pager
# /lib/systemd/system/apt-daily.service
[Unit]
Description=Daily apt download activities
Documentation=man:apt(8)
ConditionACPower=true
After=network.target network-online.target systemd-networkd.service NetworkManager.service connman.service

[Service]
Type=oneshot
ExecStartPre=-/usr/lib/apt/apt-helper wait-online
ExecStart=/usr/lib/apt/apt.systemd.daily update

drew@dell:~$
 


Code: Select all
  drew@dell:~$ su
Password:
root@dell:/home/drew# journalctl -u apt-daily --no-pager
-- Logs begin at Sun 2018-05-27 06:59:54 PDT, end at Sun 2018-05-27 09:45:01 PDT. --
May 27 07:00:13 dell systemd[1]: Starting Daily apt download activities...
May 27 07:00:43 dell systemd[1]: Started Daily apt download activities.
root@dell:/home/drew# exit
exit
drew@dell:~$
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]

Postby llewellen » 2018-05-27 16:53

@Stick_on_a_Head: I found this on Ask Ubuntu:

"This is Debian bug #844453. apt-daily.service shouldn't be run during boot, but only some time afterward.

As a workaround, do sudo systemctl edit apt-daily.timer and paste the following text into the editor window:

# apt-daily timer configuration override
[Timer]
OnBootSec=15min
OnUnitActiveSec=1d
AccuracySec=1h
RandomizedDelaySec=30min
This changes the "timer" that triggers apt-daily.service to run at a random time between 15 min and 45 min after boot, and once a day thereafter."

What say you? :)
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Re: Debian Boot Sequence [Withdrawn]

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2018-05-27 19:17

llewellen wrote:What say you?

Does apt-daily.service actually delay your desktop startup time?

As observed in the bug report, the time reported by `systemd-analyze` does *not* represent the time taken to achieve a usable desktop but rather indicates when all of the startup processes have finished.

Have you timed how long it takes for your box to show a login prompt with a stopwatch and compared it with the command output'?
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