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Improve memory usage in Debian

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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#91 Post by Deb-fan »

My dang gnu-nix forum bug has reared its ugly head again! Had to Google Kwin(KDE windows manager, transitioning into a Wayland compositor.) Gotta agree with Hallvor, like comparing pears to oranges, when you've never eaten an orange and already much prefer pears anyway. Someone would have to actually use xyz DE/WM and get somewhat familiar with them, before they can even form a valid opinion.

Ten mins of playing with one of them realistically doesn't cut it or give the chance to find out what they can do. What can be done to or with them. Doesnt matter I guess we all have plenty of choices.
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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#92 Post by sickpig »

No what? Xorg makes the screen freeze not the wm.

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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#93 Post by Hallvor »

sickpig wrote:No what? Xorg makes the screen freeze not the wm.

Since you did not read the link:
With a stacking manager, the repainting process can become corrupted when a program that is slow, unresponsive or buggy does not respond to messages in a timely manner.[5][6] A malicious program can cause the system to appear unstable by simply neglecting to repaint its window. Then, one or more of the following conditions may result:

a clipped window does not repaint uncovered regions, resulting in either blank spaces or a "trail" left behind from another window
portions of windows (such as decorative drop shadows) are left behind and not properly painted over
the mouse pointer is corrupted[7][unreliable source]
screen updates become unbearably slow[8]
the entire screen freezes until the program either responds or is terminated[9]

With a compositing manager, if a window stops repainting itself when requested by the window manager, its last repaint will remain displayed and the window might be dimmed. Often the title changes to reflect the status of the window as unresponsive. A program may prevent its window from being moved or unmapped, but generally will not cause repainting problems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositi ... w_managers


Anything wrong with that?
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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#94 Post by sickpig »

No, both kwin and openbox r stacking wms. I think compositing makes kwin such a cpu hog.

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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#95 Post by Deb-fan »

Don't take Wikipedia as an authority. Have never seen such behavior from openbox or any wm/de I've used. Though would be easy enough to remedy on any of them too. If anything sounds like a gpu-vid driver situation and would have say big DE's would be more prone to such because they're inherently more complex. Though get tons of dev attention too, shrugs. Nobody has to really mess with openbox either though, it's been rock solid so long. No reason for major rewrites.
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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#96 Post by Hallvor »

I used Openbox for about six months a few years ago, and I encountered several problems with repainting. Mind you, this was not on Debian, so the applications were less tested, but issues such as these are real.

Sickpig: It is compositing by default, but it can be turned off. Yes, compositing will eat CPU. Have you tried installing Compiz to see how it compares to Kwin with compositing on?
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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#97 Post by sickpig »

No I haven't. I don't need compositing to be productive. I was just drawn into the whole DE coolaid, nd was impressed by kde videos on utube and of course u saying it's not resource intensive. I agree kde looks great. But the constant background CPU usage irritates me.

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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#98 Post by Hallvor »

You should have turned compositing off, then. But by all means, stick with what you like best.
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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#99 Post by Deb-fan »

Really starting to look like you guys should do pistols @ dawn + 10 paces thing. :D Messing round fellas. Compositioning will make a difference. Though he's mentioned it can be turned off. Same for plenty of other things, components and services in an out-of-box can be really heavy DE. They can be tweaked. Whereas with something like openbox, in my view much more about what x-person chooses to install and mainly tweaking the underlying operating system. Same time a totally plain Jane openbox, without some good customization applied is hideously bare and desolate. This is coming from a guy whose strongly considering getting rid of the openbox right click menu,never use it anymore. :)
Last edited by Deb-fan on 2019-07-14 13:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#100 Post by sickpig »

Hmm, yes I agree. I shall try that tomorrow. Now watches finals :)

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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#101 Post by Deb-fan »

^ Try which one, pistols @dawn or turning off compositor? OK shutting it for awhile too. :)
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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#102 Post by sickpig »

yup u guys were right compositing was the culprit
kwin without compositing 2% cpu with compositing around 10-12%
openbox with or without compositing(compton) 0% cpu

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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#103 Post by Hallvor »

sickpig wrote:yup u guys were right compositing was the culprit
kwin without compositing 2% cpu with compositing around 10-12%
openbox with or without compositing(compton) 0% cpu
That looks like a more healthy number, but 10-12% with compositing seems high. I am not near that number on any of my computers.

A standalone window manager and compositor is hardly a fair comparison with a full desktop environment. It is like comparing a bike with a car. (Of course the bike is lighter, but it can do a lot less.) Compare it with Gnome, Mate, XFCE or maybe Unity.
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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#104 Post by sickpig »

WM does not necessarily do less in any way compared to a DE because the underlying functionality is still provided by the OS. Cant think of a single thing which cant be done in WM and is exclusive to a DE. But DEs definitely provide the bling and eye candy out of the box though, can't dispute that. But omg so many configuration options, m lost in all the thousands of menus. has a learning curve for sure.

I added a simple xdtool shortcut(alt+f4) to close windows in KDE top panel. it works but every-time i click on it, it works but then gives a prompt on the desktop saying kde cant launch it? hello u already did :), don't know, small niggles, but DE looks polished. i havent figured out all the options yet.

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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#105 Post by Hallvor »

WM does not necessarily do less in any way compared to a DE
It does less by its very definition.
I added a simple xdtool shortcut(alt+f4) to close windows in KDE top panel.


Not sure if I understand you correctly, but close application with Alt + F4 is the default shortcut, but you can customize it any way you want in Systemsettings.
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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#106 Post by sickpig »

the only thing WM does less is provide less confusing menus and options. when i click on firefox a smallish version of its own icon keeps on jumping up and down until the browser is active. ? why. i dont know if its just me but i am experiencing DEs to be sluggish. All actions are ever so slightly slowish.

details about the earlier mentioned error:-
SUMMARY

xdotool script gives error

STEPS TO REPRODUCE
1. create a script like:

Code: Select all

 #! /bin/bash

xdotool key ALT+F4
2. create a launcher in the panel pointing to this script
3. try to close windows by clicking on the launcher - u get error

Code: Select all

KDEInit could not launch '/home/a/close.sh'
the funny thing is the error is displayed after the window is closed. So the xdotool action takes effect, yet the error.

The same launcher btw works flawlessly on xfce panel. M sure there must be a way to make the same work on KDE as well. I just haven't figured it out yet. But i can't work in it as it seems slowish, so cant troubleshoot.

M spoilt by the responsive snappiness of openbox. DEs definitely, not my cup of tea. m back to my comfort blanky of openbox.

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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#107 Post by sickpig »

i submitted a bug to kde Bug 409879
there seems to be traction on it and since its submission more and more kde folk are getting assigned to it
lets c if there is a resolution

edit
i couldn't find anything in syslog or messages

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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#108 Post by sickpig »

quick clarification the earlier mentioned error is seen if you add a launcher on the top panel. It works as expected from the bottom panel. weird. nothing in journalctl as well, tried to search for logs to help the people working on the earlier reported bug.

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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#109 Post by Deb-fan »

Would start a support thread in the appropriate section of the forums. Asking users familiar with KDE about it. Not a mod nor want to be but this thread became a totally off topic free for all long ago. Not that I didn't contribute my share to it.

Originally brought up user choice of de/wm is relevant to system overhead, it is(again they and the underlying OS can be tweaked as well.) Was never intended as an my wm mama can beat up your DE's mama. That debate is to great degree based on personal preference and end user perception and will rage on until the end of time.
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Re: Improve memory usage in Debian

#110 Post by sickpig »

i agree.
i am not looking for support here though, just thought it would be relevant in case anyone interested wanted to replicate the error.

i also agree once you are invested in a particular DE or WM it becomes quite inconvenient to switch to something else. trust me i know i tried, its damn difficult to switch. After all don't fix until broken right? also WM vs DE is not a fair comparison. DEs win in terms of providing a GUI for all configurations and WM wins in terms of speedd and light memory footprint. Both are winners really.

I was harping on WM considering the post title "Improve memory usage in Debian". But after trying to switch my environment I understand how difficult it is. So i can understand the challenges anyone would potentially face if they try to switch. Anyway my whole point was if you are RAM challenged and can not find the root cause then maybe consider lighter alternatives.

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