Debian GNU/Hurd.

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Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby hack3rcon » 2019-07-27 07:53

Hello,
Is Debian GNU/Hurd a replacement for current Debian?

Thank you.
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby Bloom » 2019-07-27 07:59

No. That is intended for the Hurd kernel and not the Linux kernel.
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby hack3rcon » 2019-07-27 08:05

It is a replacement for the Unix kernel. Thus, in their opinions Linux is Unix and not Unix-like?
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby Bloom » 2019-07-27 08:14

Linux is in fact only the kernel. The rest is GNU utilities. The combination is officially called GNU Linux.
Instead of a Linux kernel, you could use the GNU Hurd kernel. That's what you get in Debian GNU/Hurd. It's Debian, but with a Hurd instead of a Linux kernel.
iMHO, there are no advantages in using Hurd instead of the Linux kernel. If you want to try it, you can. Just make sure the hardware is as "standard" or "compatible" as possible, as Hurd supports nowhere near the amount of hardware the Linux kernel does.
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby hack3rcon » 2019-07-27 09:15

Why it is not serious as Linux?
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby hack3rcon » 2019-07-27 10:03

Is it because of "Microkernel" ?
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby hack3rcon » 2019-08-10 14:06

Is Debian GNU/Hurd a serious project and using in wide range? Can it the future of Debian or it just a "Vaporware" ?
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby Bloom » 2019-08-10 14:09

It is not vaporware, and it is a serious project. However, it has nothing to do with the future of Debian. Debian's main kernel is and always will be Linux.
The GNU/Hurd team have their reasons for working on it. I for one am not planning to use it, since it has no advantages over the Linux kernel and lots of disadvantages. If you want to experiment, that's fine.
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby Deb-fan » 2019-08-10 14:12

Google!!! :)

No its not the future, gets a tiny fraction of the development efforts as compared to the Linux kernel but would still consider it a serious project nonetheless. Google!!
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby hack3rcon » 2019-08-10 14:15

Bloom wrote:It is not vaporware, and it is a serious project. However, it has nothing to do with the future of Debian. Debian's main kernel is and always will be Linux.
The GNU/Hurd team have their reasons for working on it. I for one am not planning to use it, since it has no advantages over the Linux kernel and lots of disadvantages. If you want to experiment, that's fine.

Disadvantages?
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby Bloom » 2019-08-10 14:16

Mostly how little hardware it supports. Based on what I read about it, there are also serious performance issues.
But if you google it, you can read all about it yourself.
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby pylkko » 2019-08-10 19:36

The questions that you have bombarded this thread are hard to answer with any simple factual once-and-for-all answer. There are obvious advantages to the Hurd kernel. Most microkernels can, for example, diminish the amount of code tht has high privileges. Kernel modules/drivers can be made to "not be a part of the kernel". Some microkernel operating systems can fully update themselves without having to reboot because of this. Even Linus Thorvalds has admitted that the microkernel organization of things in theory is better. However, in practice things are quite different. First of all, linux just worked. It was faster to get into a state where people can adapt it as a UNIX replacement (possiblt partially vecause of the compromises it made) and thus it got more traction more rapidly. Second, a microkernel designe leads to many hard problems with respect to the parts communicating with each other. Yet, there are many widely used operating systems that do have microkernel design. For example, the L4 kernels have been used in military tech and in automobile computer and mobile devices

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family

There are also specific problems wih the Hurd/mach kernel of GNU. First of all, it is a quite old microkernel (1st gen). Second, and most important, the hardware support is very poor. There is no x86 64.bit support at all. No USB drivers, no sound. Try to get it to boot on something. It is hard.

GNU has later designed their own operating system (GUIX SD) which is based on "deblobbed liberated linux kernel" and their own package management (which actually is quite good).

https://guix.gnu.org/
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-08-18 17:25

See also https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=248330 — our OP started a thread there about Arch Hurd but it was quickly TGN'd and turned into a social thread, which was nice.

seL4 ftw!
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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd.

Postby sunrat » 2019-08-18 22:01

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:See also https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=248330 — our OP started a thread there about Arch Hurd but it was quickly TGN'd and turned into a social thread, which was nice.


What's TGN? I even looked it up and Thai satellite TV, an Australian nickel mining company, and the protein Thyroglobulin don't seem to fit the context. :mrgreen:
Link appears to be non-existent now too.
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