iso maze and expect hang with Debian 10+Intel UHD 630

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iso maze and expect hang with Debian 10+Intel UHD 630

Postby centguy » 2020-10-01 07:48

( i am here because I considered myself a beginner for Debian installation.)


I have installed Debian 9 before and was happy with it.



This time i have a different opinion.

I think the main reason is that the stable Debian 10 does not play well with my latest
desktop Dell Vostro with an Intel UHD 630.
The boot just stuck right after
[OK] Started GNOME Display Manager.

I read the Debian forum but no direct solution is found.

I had tried and tried to install
Debian 10 at least 3 times and give up. [It is possible to install just one time but I decided to delete and then
decided I have better luck and reinstall again but still no luck and the iterations go on an on and my time is ticking away...)

I am now installing Debian 11 and
write this while waiting for the installer to finish.

First my question:

Why do I have to search high and to find
firmware-testing-amd64-netinst.iso

from
http://www.pcds.fi/downloads/operatings ... stall.html


The official Debian site makes people to download Debian 10 (old!)
plus
the non firmware which in my experience never work for me.

I got interested in Debian after I have found the wonder of
"firmware" in front of iso. I do not know others but I won't try iso without firmware since it
may be a complete waste of time if one hardware needs a new driver.

I hope this post reminds others what to expect once you have a Intel UHD 630 which falls in the crack between Debian 10 and Debian 11.
But of course I hope other can correct me so that I really learn something useful.

Compared to other distros. Debian has too much interruptions during installation. You can only leave the computer
to do its job once the installer reaches "Select and install software". The default installation 30 mins on my computer which appears to be 2 times longer than
a distro that I know.

...
The installer just finished its job..

yes.

If you have Intel UHD 630, followed the link above to download
firmware-testing-amd64-netinst.iso

and you may get
Linux debian11-vostro 5.8.0-2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.8.10-1 (2020-09-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux

in 45 mins.
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Re: iso maze and expect hang with Debian 10+Intel UHD 630

Postby Deb-fan » 2020-10-01 10:40

Gotta do it, yep. :)

While it's understandable for people to be frustrated, the problem doesn't lay with Debian, it's their own lack of effort to do even the most basic research into what the Debian project is or does and thus they might have some idea as to what's involved in installing the Debian stable distribution. Though imo, that's fairly common in terms of people, why bother learning anything about something, just do it anyway. Predictably end up with unsatisfying results ? Blame the thing rather than themselves, shrugs.

That other distro ie: Ubuntu or better imo Linux Mint are geared towards catering to people who don't really want to learn anything about gnu/Linux or Debian etc. Just want to install and have as much as possible automatically setup for them. Nothing wrong with that either but it's not Debian's niche, not the projects intent. People who install Debian, completely oblivious to these facts are the ones at fault.

Though Debian also comes with many pros, for those who are interested enough to learn and appreciate such things and invest the effort, have the actual interest in gnu/Linux. Not going to drone on about them and have nothing against Ubuntu/Canonical Inc or those who like the distribution they maintain. :)
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Re: iso maze and expect hang with Debian 10+Intel UHD 630

Postby sunrat » 2020-10-01 11:02

I don't know why you ended up on that site you linked, Debian non-free images are available direct from Debian.
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... -firmware/

You should read Debian Free Software Guidelines to answer your queries about why non-free isn't default. And if you ask a nice question on this forum including some hardware details you may get a nice answer to help you get the right install image and help to install it.
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Re: iso maze and expect hang with Debian 10+Intel UHD 630

Postby centguy » 2020-10-01 14:27

OK.

I am confused by

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... ree/amd64/


there are so many choices. cd and dvd i know, but what is bd?

what is bt, jigdo? My best guess is that they are just iso equivalences, so I am not interested. Hence a first timer
has to make the best guess that it should be iso-cd.

OK. Reaching
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... 64/iso-cd/

then one realized that is not the bulleye I want.

OK. I have to explore

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... di_alpha1/

di_alpha1? What is this mysterious name?

OK. Settled for
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... etinst.iso

but this has a date of 2019-12-01 00:59

Knowing each time of install will take about 1H, hence I am still not sure if this is the one for bulleye.

However, I google and found


http://www.pcds.fi/downloads/operatings ... stall.html


has a very clean naming with a consistent with Debian 9 that I have downloaded before. and I was lucky it works.

So is this not a maze?

I am saying what is in my mind. I am just hoping you agree with me.

[And if you ask a nice question on this forum including some hardware details you may get a nice answer to help you get the right install image and help to install it.]
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Re: iso maze and expect hang with Debian 10+Intel UHD 630

Postby centguy » 2020-10-01 15:00

I see, I probably need to be brave to just get
that

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... etinst.iso

under weekly builds.
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Re: iso maze and expect hang with Debian 10+Intel UHD 630

Postby sgosnell » 2020-10-01 16:03

There is no Debian 11. Buster, 10.6 was just released, and 10 is not old. I have no idea where you got the idea that 11 is current. It will be released someday, but that day is not today. Bullseye is Testing, not for normal use, and especially not for new users. It's only for experienced users to test and report bugs. You obviously are not experienced with Debian, so you're far better off using Stable, 10.6.

Debian calls itself the Universal Operating System because it runs on almost every platform available, thus the large number of .iso versions available. You have to wade through them to find the one that is designed for the hardware you have.

All that said, Debian Stable is not the newest and shiniest in the universe. If you have very new hardware, you may need to enable the backports repository and install the latest kernel and firmware from there before your graphics work properly. I had to do that with my Intel 10th gen system. It's inconvenient, but it works. Install Stable, and if you get a black screen with a blinking cursor in the top left, drop to a console by entering Ctrl-Alt-F2, log in using the root password you set during the install, edit /etc/apt/sources.list to add Buster-backports, run apt update, and install the newer kernel and firmware using apt. Or you can download them in advance, and put them on a flash drive and use dpkg to install them directly. Reboot and you have a desktop. In life everything is a compromise of some sort, and this is one of the compromises Debian has made. If you absolutely must have the newest and shiniest software, perhaps Debian is not the best choice for you. If you want something that works, every day, Debian Stable does that, once properly configured.
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Re: iso maze and expect hang with Debian 10+Intel UHD 630

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-10-01 18:01

centguy wrote:I think the main reason is that the stable Debian 10 does not play well with my latest
desktop Dell Vostro with an Intel UHD 630.
The boot just stuck right after
[OK] Started GNOME Display Manager.

I read the Debian forum but no direct solution is found.

How about http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=142974? Some versions of the UHD630 will work with the stock buster kernel as long as the firmware is installed.

centguy wrote:Why do I have to search high and to find
firmware-testing-amd64-netinst.iso

Because your search-fu sucks. If I enter "Debian nonfree iso image" into a search engine this is the top result:

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... -firmware/

And if I check the official installation guide then I see that site linked in section 6.4.1.


That's strange, I can't see any checksums or GPG signatures on that page. How do you know that image is genuine? It could be malware. I do see that the links point to the same page as is linked from the installation guide so they're probably okay. Probably.

centguy wrote:Compared to other distros. Debian has too much interruptions during installation.

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ ... pb.en.html

centguy wrote:there are so many choices. cd and dvd i know, but what is bd?

what is bt, jigdo?

There are so many choices because Debian is tremendously flexible. Click on each link, the page gives a description of the contents. Reading is hard, eh? :mrgreen:
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Re: iso maze and expect hang with Debian 10+Intel UHD 630

Postby stevepusser » 2020-10-01 18:16

630 UHD sounds like tenth gen Intel hardware, can you confirm?

You could also stay closer to the Debian mothership if you try the MX Linux "AHS" or KDE version, which is still based on Buster, but with the necessary backports included as default. You can even test it in a LiveUSB session. IDK why users here suggest going to Mint or Ubuntu instead. I am the lead packager for MX, so I am biased, though. :|
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