Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

New to Debian (Or Linux in general)? Ask your questions here!

Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby Kroneos » 2020-10-15 05:45

Good day!

I spent a few years on other Linux distributions and decided I want to make Debian my home.
My computer is equipped with an Nvidia GTX 980 video card and I plan to game on this computer using Steam/Lutris.

Having said that, fellow colleague suggested to install the latest stable kernel from backports, and the nonfree nvidia driver.
So here I am, after going over a few wikis, guides, installed Debian Buster KDE with LVM encrypted drive, added the backport source and attempted to install the latest kernel, firmware

Code: Select all
echo deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main contrib non-free | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/buster-backports.list
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt install -t buster-backports linux-image-amd64
sudo apt install -t buster-backports firmware-linux firmware-linux-nonfree

user@puter:~$ dpkg --list | grep linux-image
ii  linux-image-4.19.0-11-amd64                   4.19.146-1                          amd64        Linux 4.19 for 64-bit PCs (signed)
ii  linux-image-5.8.0-0.bpo.2-amd64               5.8.10-1~bpo10+1                    amd64        Linux 5.8 for 64-bit PCs (signed)
ii  linux-image-amd64                             5.8.10-1~bpo10+1                    amd64        Linux for 64-bit PCs (meta-package)


The system boots, gets to spalsh KDE login screen. I type in the credentials and the system halts (Ctrl+Alt+F2 isn't responding)
Can any kind soul please point to what I am doing wrong and perhaps where to begin figuring out why it is freezing?

Thank you,
Kroneos
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 2020-10-15 05:26

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby Bloom » 2020-10-15 06:09

That kernel is extremely buggy. Don't use it and revert back to your older kernel.
User avatar
Bloom
 
Posts: 297
Joined: 2017-11-11 12:23

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby Deb-fan » 2020-10-15 06:13

Only going to ramble, I don't game on gnu/Nix so am lacking in understanding about these type of things. Still common sense generally always applies in everything. If were going to game on nix, would honestly opt for a dedicated OS, setup for that specific purpose and then use it when gaming. Would get rid of things like encryption, probably LVM too, to whatever extent has to add complexity in a usecase where someone is wanting raw performance. Nvidia has long seemed to be a problematic issue in terms of graphics in gnu/nix. Linus Torvalds pointed it out, errrrr, with his middle finger.

Not familiar with state of proprietary drivers, think generally speaking when comes to Nvidia that they do consistently out-perform the open source ones. I really like Debian but not sure stable or even Debian based would be the right way to go for gaming, that's something people would have to test. Am 100% certain it could work just fine regardless. Only a random thought, there are distro's whose niche is gaming on gnu/Linux though. Presumably for any in that niche which could be considered good, the dev's and maintainers have focused much time and effort learning about all that must go into getting best gaming performance out of nix boxen. Not that all of which couldn't be equally applied to Debian stable, only that it might take more than a bit of time, effort, experience etc to reach that goal.

Mayhaps some of the nixers more familiar with iGPU's/APU's, gaming on this platform and all that stuff will pipe up and give some insights. :)
Most powerful FREE tech-support tool on the planet * HERE. *
Deb-fan
 
Posts: 937
Joined: 2012-08-14 12:27

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby Kroneos » 2020-10-15 06:40

Bloom wrote:That kernel is extremely buggy. Don't use it and revert back to your older kernel.

Thanks for the answer. Now to think of it, I have been running into issues on the same version on another distribution. Would you suggest to completely stay away from 5.x?

Deb-fan wrote:Only going to ramble, I don't game on gnu/Nix so am lacking in understanding about these type of things. Still common sense generally always applies in everything. If were going to game on nix, would honestly opt for a dedicated OS, setup for that specific purpose and then use it when gaming. Would get rid of things like encryption, probably LVM too, to whatever extent has to add complexity in a usecase where someone is wanting raw performance. Nvidia has long seemed to be a problematic issue in terms of graphics in gnu/nix. Linus Torvalds pointed it out, errrrr, with his middle finger.

Not familiar with state of proprietary drivers, think generally speaking when comes to Nvidia that they do consistently out-perform the open source ones. I really like Debian but not sure stable or even Debian based would be the right way to go for gaming, that's something people would have to test. Am 100% certain it could work just fine regardless. Only a random thought, there are distro's whose niche is gaming on gnu/Linux though. Presumably for any in that niche which could be considered good, the dev's and maintainers have focused much time and effort learning about all that must go into getting best gaming performance out of nix boxen. Not that all of which couldn't be equally applied to Debian stable, only that it might take more than a bit of time, effort, experience etc to reach that goal.

Mayhaps some of the nixers more familiar with iGPU's/APU's, gaming on this platform and all that stuff will pipe up and give some insights. :)


Haha, loving your observations. I did a few times think to use Windows (I uttered the forbidden word!) for gaming purposes specifically. Aside from reviving something really dead inside, the dual boot or drive swapping re-surfaces nasty displeasure in my head. From what I've noticed with other less stable distros, gaming is very very good (Steam Proton/Lutris) on nix systems, even for the noobs like me. I have the one computer with semi outdated hardware that I would love to use as my daily driver for everything. I have been sold (by colleagues) that Debian is the better contender that will be stable and capable with backports. Clearly, I have plenty to learn yet.
Kroneos
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 2020-10-15 05:26

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby Deb-fan » 2020-10-15 07:02

^ Lol ... think when comes to gnu/Linux anyone who doesn't tell you they have much to learn is fulla crap. :D

Though wanted to post some more ramblings, was a point I should've made about this, my view of an important aspect and so here it comes ...

Just some more junk, if you've ever followed Linus Torvalds to any extent, listened to interviews and what-not, it quickly becomes clear that he's a fairly nice guy. For him to have resorted to making such a crude and public statement directed towards Nvidia, forces me to conclude they must really be acting like aholes. On top of seeing person after person having issues, hassles and headaches with that OEM for the last almost 10yrs of using gnu/Linux = Debian. :)

By this point I've built a major distrust for them and their stuff, while I'm sure it's not across the board, still if I see Nvidia listed in the specs of some hardware I'm interested in, likely to keep on looking for something else. Only based on the negative track-record, if they're going to make it hard on nixers, then vote with your money, Nvidia could very well not give the slightest whit about you/me but they do care about money. This is subject to change obviously too, with more nixers, more interest in gaming on the platform Nvidia should take notice and start paying more attention, should start making more effort to be cooperative for their own gain, though again ... By this point I personally distrust and even dislike them now.
Most powerful FREE tech-support tool on the planet * HERE. *
Deb-fan
 
Posts: 937
Joined: 2012-08-14 12:27

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby Bloom » 2020-10-15 09:23

On my system, every version 5 before 5.8 worked fine. When I installed 5.8, the problems began. On more than one system. So I stuck to 5.6, except on one desktop where I installed 5.8.11-xanmod1 and that one seems to work fine. But that's not the standard kernel but a modified XanMod version.
User avatar
Bloom
 
Posts: 297
Joined: 2017-11-11 12:23

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby Deb-fan » 2020-10-15 10:28

More quasi-fact based speculation ...

Problem may very well and likely is on Nvidia's end of things. If they won't cooperate, drop support, won't give access and coordinate then there isn't a bunch the Linux kernel developers can do about it, though everyone is looking at them like it's their fault. What the hades are you people doing, why isn't this working better etc ?!?! Thus no doubt one of the things which prompted LT to snap at them. He also knew that by doing so, he was going to take flak for it and did. Having a bunch of politically correct zombies on the FAR outside, with no idea what's going on within saying OMG, he gave somebody the finger, what a lowlife !!! I won't be able to hug my favorite teddy bear or sip a diet soda for at least an hour, maybe even an hour and half after seeing such offensiveness. Is this the type of person who should be representing the Linux kernel ? YES, he's exactly the kind of person who should. :D

Wanted to mention but seemed like it'd be coming off as mud slinging at Debian and it's not at all proper, a given Debian stable release was long time tested against xyz-kernel version, all the software versions in it likewise tested with same. Many people upgrade their kernel without valid reason, they simply want a newer kernel version, they start trying to wedge a new one in there and could not be considering such things. The time to upgrade a kernel on Debian stable in my opinion, is if there's a good reason and then would still say absolutely get it from backports first, at the very least a source which is credible and makes it very clear whichever kernel they provide is fully compatible with Debian, preferably makes it very clear it's intended for current Debian release. I mean that would be ideal and if someone knows their stuff, other options become practical too. Also I'm exaggerating in ways too, as it's not like installing a newer kernel on Debian stable is going to make anything explode either. It's really a no harm/foul thing, someone feels like it, try it and see how things go. But if you have xyz-kernel and it's working well on your hardware, there's no real reason to upgrade right ?

Steam OS and those types surely do mucho more than most, develop and maintain stuff like Proton, specifically config for gaming, they patch, checked not too long ago and they're in the process of trying to get such patches merged into the upstream kernel but that takes time and a distro like Debian stable isn't called Debian latest-newest gaming support, whamo, bamo performance center, ... as the name makes plain, it's meant to be stable. Long time tested, long support period and stable. Though again could no doubt be adapted and tailored for better gaming performance too. It's also called the Universal OS for good reason. Something else that's pretty clear atm, I need to step awayyyy from the coffee. :)
Most powerful FREE tech-support tool on the planet * HERE. *
Deb-fan
 
Posts: 937
Joined: 2012-08-14 12:27

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby stevepusser » 2020-10-15 10:53

Bloom wrote:That kernel is extremely buggy. Don't use it and revert back to your older kernel.


Citations needed.

Anyway, the guy that advised you needs a dope slap for not telling you that you very probably will need the Nvidia driver updated from backports nonfree to have it build with the newer kernel. This is not a kernel bug, but is one of the most common problems asked and answered here. They should have known that if they presumed to advise using the latest kernel.

I know for sure that the 5.8 kernel works and runs with the 450.66 Nvidia driver. This is on both a 2016 Acer and 2018 MSI Optimus laptop.
MX Linux packager and developer
User avatar
stevepusser
 
Posts: 12061
Joined: 2009-10-06 05:53

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-10-15 14:58

Bloom wrote:I stuck to 5.6

Using an outdated kernel with known, published vulnerabilities is unwise.
Black Lives Matter

Debian buster-backports ISO image: for new hardware support
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 12612
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby stevepusser » 2020-10-15 17:43

Steam is also 32-bit, so you'll also need to install matching 32-bit Nvidia libraries on your 64-bit system from backports. This is another FAQ here.

Luckily, someone that actually knows their butt from a hole in the ground wrote the Debian wiki entry for Steam. Even if you have advice from a friend, always double-check the wiki entry before following their advice. If they conflict, ask here.
MX Linux packager and developer
User avatar
stevepusser
 
Posts: 12061
Joined: 2009-10-06 05:53

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby Kroneos » 2020-10-16 03:00

Thanks for the advice guys. I will hit the wikis that I missed and see if I stand better chance.
The gent that recommended to install 5.8 also runs the nonfree nvidia driver but clearly his computer is different than mine.
I can only assume that perhaps it is some sort of driver that freezes my machine that was delivered via firmware-linux firmware-linux-nonfree. Considering it is fully frozen I cannot check dmesg for the culprit at the time of the crime.
By the way, I have NOT gotten to install the proprietary nvidia driver yet, I am trying to get the kernel updated first.
Kroneos
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 2020-10-15 05:26

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby sickpig » 2020-10-16 10:00

Kroneos wrote:The gent that recommended to install 5.8 also runs the nonfree nvidia driver but clearly his computer is different than mine.

Why are you referring to the person who tried to help you by a generic "The gent"? I guess being ignorant is what landed you in this problem that you seek help for anyway.
User avatar
sickpig
 
Posts: 567
Joined: 2019-01-23 10:34

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby metreo » 2020-10-16 13:23

Steam on Debian is perfectly fine. I would think bullseye would provide better support though the vulkan drivers you need and other compatibility tools will be managed by the Steam client directly.

Gaming on Linux is real and it's good!
User avatar
metreo
 
Posts: 20
Joined: 2020-10-08 19:15

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby Kroneos » 2020-10-16 14:55

sickpig wrote:
Kroneos wrote:The gent that recommended to install 5.8 also runs the nonfree nvidia driver but clearly his computer is different than mine.

Why are you referring to the person who tried to help you by a generic "The gent"? I guess being ignorant is what landed you in this problem that you seek help for anyway.

a friend, a buddy, colleague? I am not 100% certain why "the gent" offends you and how that makes me ignorant.
Kroneos
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 2020-10-15 05:26

Re: Computer freezes after latest kernel 5.8

Postby Kroneos » 2020-10-16 14:57

An update,
After installing the nvidia-driver from the backports, the freezing has gone away.
Thank you very much,
Kroneos
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 2020-10-15 05:26

Next

Return to Beginners Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

fashionable