Debian freeze

[DeafFatalBruno]

Hi

I have installed Debian today. (B365 - intel i3 - 4ghz, 16gb ddr4).
I have used Linux in the past, but I am not very experienced with Linux.

I do have a severe problem with Debian, as it freezes after a minute or so of use (under Gnome). It varies. If I start Firefox it freezes on starting of that.
I am just very surprised that is gets this stuck. No error, no feedback, just 100% frozen .

The GUI remains up, but nothing works suddenly. Mouse is frozen, keyboard does not work. I can't switch to console with CRTL +ATL + F2 or sim. No key command shows any response.
There is no error or anything else shown. It just freezes.
After a hard reboot, it works fine for a few min until it freezes again.

I have no clue on how to trace this issue down.
The system was running FreeNAS before without any issues.

I don't know why it freezes and what to do about it.

I have updated the bios. ( no change)
If it is a hardware issue, I suspect ram, Mobo or CPU, ..

Is there any way under debian to check what happens and trace this down.
Or am I left with swapping components out?

kind regards

[Bulkley]

The GUI remains up, but nothing works suddenly. Mouse is frozen, keyboard does not work. I can't switch to console with CRTL +ATL + F2 or sim. No key command shows any response. There is no error or anything else shown. It just freezes.

That points to a graphical problem. Considering that you just installed I wonder if you also installed the appropriate non-free package that goes with your video card.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

Install the intel-microcode package. The non-free component of the repositories will have to be enabled.

[DeafFatalBruno]

thanks, I look into both and see if I can make any progress.

I have not installed any none free driver or so. Just the debian stock install.
It's hard to do as a fairly linux novice, when also the browser is crashing the GUI/xserver environment.
I can only work from the command line.

I noticed the same issue, when trying to install Ubuntu ( as this boots some sort of graphic installer, then installer hangs in the same fashion) . So I couldn't even install it.
Debian has bit of older style installer and that worked fine.

So maybe the GPU is the cause, why would Linux hang like that. I would have expected to be able to switch to a txt base console even if the xserver/GPU has an issue.
Isn't that whole point of modern OS, so something like that can't bring everything down.

I could try to enable ssh and see if I can still remote login when it is frozen.

[arochester]

I would have expected to be able to switch to a txt base console even if the xserver/GPU has an issue.

If you press Ctrl+Alt+F1 you will go to text.

If you press Ctrl+Alt+F7 you will go back to graphical.

Go to text and install intel-microcode

[DeafFatalBruno]

ok,

so, I tested that I can still ssh into this debian instance, even when the xserver/Gnome is frozen.
That works.

So that means the underlying system is not dead at that point, but all mouse or keyboard input is blocked/hanging, so it will not allow me to swap away from the xserver to any terminal.

I have no idea yet on how install any nvidia driver, but will look into it.
Are AMD cards better suited for Linux?
Are these problems common?

Considering a ubuntu install won't even work, I would hope this is not normal.

kind regards

[DeafFatalBruno]

I would have expected to be able to switch to a txt base console even if the xserver/GPU has an issue.

If you press Ctrl+Alt+F1 you will go to text.

If you press Ctrl+Alt+F7 you will go back to graphical.

Go to text and install intel-microcode

I will try to get that microcode.. is that a simple apt-get thing to get it installed??


the Ctrl+Alt+F1 (or any other F does NOT work). once the xsever/gui freeze is up, NO key command works.
It also seem to me under Debian now F1 is graphical, F2 onwards is text.

[Bulkley]

Add non-free to your /etc/apt/sources.list like this.

Code: Select all

  deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free

You will need to edit that as root.

Then do:

Code: Select all

# apt update
# apt install intel-microcode

[DeafFatalBruno]

Add non-free to your /etc/apt/sources.list like this.

Code: Select all

  deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free

You will need to edit that as root.

Then do:

Code: Select all

# apt update
# apt install intel-microcode

Thank you!!
the intall worked

I installed and rebooted, but the issue remains!
I assume installing this package and a reboot is all it needed, ...

looking at the graphics driver next. (or whatever you would call that under linux, ..

[arochester]

t also seem to me under Debian now F1 is graphical, F2 onwards is text.

F1 to F6 is text. F7 to F12 is graphical.

[DeafFatalBruno]

t also seem to me under Debian now F1 is graphical, F2 onwards is text.

F1 to F6 is text. F7 to F12 is graphical.

That's what I have been told in the past and it did work as such.

I can def assure you that under the lasted Debian install here, that F1 is the xserver, F2 tty2 -> F6 tty6 /// F7 and up is not working by default.

[CwF]

F1 is the xserver, F2 tty2 -> F6 tty6

yep, or maybe...It depends on things not specified like how it's set up! Lightdm and others is what kick graphical to f7+. Without, f1 is where it starts unless told otherwise.

[DeafFatalBruno]

ok, I manage to install the nvidia-driver via buster-backports apt-install ..

there were some notes on "possible missing firmware ../. rtl_nic/ ... for module r8169.
Not sure what that means or if that matters, but I think it installed.

I have been running now for a bit without the issue reoccurring, but still too early to tell.

-> I have say thanks for all the quick responses here!!! Thank you!


But also this is turning me off linux again. I am trying it every few years. since 1995 ,.. and I think xserver issues during config have been there 90% of the time .
A few years later I think, that must all be smooth and I try again and find xserver issues again, ... repeat many times, ... ... now 2021... xserver is still an issue.

regardless if nvidia is to blame or Linux, the end result is the same, as linux novice Linux it remains is PITA to setup and work with, unless ur soo lucky and just runs out of the box.

I would have hoped that simple nvidia GT710 would just work! I mean, I don't need any 3d features or OpenGL acceleration. Just give me a plain stable desktop. That's all I want.
The ubnuntu install won't even work, as it uses the xserver for the installation. So debian is the winner in the end.

but that is not assuring at all.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

regardless if nvidia is to blame or Linux

NVIDIA is entirely to blame, they hate the open source community and should be avoided by any who support that ethos.

See also https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/****-you-nvidia.html & https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=_36yNWw_07g

[Bulkley]

Debian is not the easiest for a newbie. Debian sticks to principles and they can be frustrating. MX Linux is easier. It is based on Debian but the developers have made it more user friendly.

[sunrat]

I would have hoped that simple nvidia GT710 would just work!

You need the firmware-misc-nonfree package installed for it to just work.
I have a GTX970 which is almost the same age as yours. It works out of the box on MX AHS versions including MX-KDE and AVL-MXE with my 4K monitor. I mainly use Buster and have the Nvidia driver there as it's slightly better in a couple of aspects.
Head_on_a_Stick loves bashing Nvidia but he's right. If I was building a new system I'd get an AMD card or just use integrated graphics.

[DeafFatalBruno]

I would have hoped that simple nvidia GT710 would just work!

You need the firmware-misc-nonfree package installed for it to just work.
I have a GTX970 which is almost the same age as yours. It works out of the box on MX AHS versions including MX-KDE and AVL-MXE with my 4K monitor. I mainly use Buster and have the Nvidia driver there as it's slightly better in a couple of aspects.
Head_on_a_Stick loves bashing Nvidia but he's right. If I was building a new system I'd get an AMD card or just use integrated graphics.

Well I need to check that out as well.

I understand the Nvidia bashing, they behave a bit crap at times. But I am not fully excusing the linux side either. If a driver misbehaves or xserver crashes, I like to see that handled better. There is
a need to have clear errors messages and graceful shutdowns of xservers. If it freeze without any feedback that is not great. That is bad also on the underlying linux architecture.

Also I tried a AMD card( in order to trace down the issue) and swapping the card out to the AMD card, made the xserver not start at all and crash on startup. In this case at least with error messages to terminal. But I assume that this due to my ignorance, as I probably need to do some apt update or similar if I sawp out the card, .. but not sure.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

I am not fully excusing the linux side either. If a driver misbehaves or xserver crashes, I like to see that handled better.

Well give some money to the nouveau developers then. Or go back to Windows.

EDIT:

Also I tried a AMD card( in order to trace down the issue) and swapping the card out to the AMD card, made the xserver not start at all and crash on startup. In this case at least with error messages to terminal. But I assume that this due to my ignorance

Yes, that is due to your ignorance and also due to your failure to read the Frequently Asked Questions thread in the HowTo section of the forums

[CwF]

wapping the card out to the AMD card, made the xserver not start at all and crash on startup

...then you have a bad install, or faulty hardware. You should be able to get to a prompt with ANY video card.
From the info here I have no guess for anyone to chew on. Except 'nvidia' is spelled 'nouveau'. There is some misconfiguration somewhere. The only way to boot into a lock is erroneous instructions, or bad hardware.

When this happens you need to be comfortable at the command line, it can tell you everything. Since this is not an average skill, Debian is not for average users. The most common mistake by average users that are in fact 'smart' is to overthink and not report the problem accurately since they think they can skip 'that' mention because is 'shouldn't matter' !

A Debian image with appropriate firmwares and configuration will boot on many computers without user intervention. Mine will boot on any of a dozen different MB's with a 750Ti, 710GT, FX1500, 5450, 7750, W7000. To be clear, that is the same physical disk - move it to this or that random mix of hardware and it comes up fine. So, it IS possible.

I'll note I've come across a handful of oddities where slots matter. In one case, the 750TI will freeze for a few minutes or so WITHOUT firmware, then work fine. During that freeze, I'm sure a large percentage of users would loose patience, assume the worst, hit the big button, and log on to complain. I've had some barf tty1, while the other tty's are available for interaction and corrective action...again, the average loose patience and maybe don't know how to get to a prompt.

I've explained how dual video can be helpful - keep that igpu or whatever hooked up while probing, the xserver will often find the port and echo errors and even is interactive, even though it isn't the chosen display.
Stick them both in there! You know you can dynamically jump from nouveau to radeon or amdgpu and back once you know what's up! Every time I've had a config issue with a gpu I put it in as a secondary to work it out.

Best of Luck!

[DeafFatalBruno]

wapping the card out to the AMD card, made the xserver not start at all and crash on startup

...then you have a bad install, or faulty hardware. You should be able to get to a prompt with ANY video card.
From the info here I have no guess for anyone to chew on. Except 'nvidia' is spelled 'nouveau'. There is some misconfiguration somewhere. The only way to boot into a lock is erroneous instructions, or bad hardware.

When this happens you need to be comfortable at the command line, it can tell you everything. Since this is not an average skill, Debian is not for average users. The most common mistake by average users that are in fact 'smart' is to overthink and not report the problem accurately since they think they can skip 'that' mention because is 'shouldn't matter' !

A Debian image with appropriate firmwares and configuration will boot on many computers without user intervention. Mine will boot on any of a dozen different MB's with a 750Ti, 710GT, FX1500, 5450, 7750, W7000. To be clear, that is the same physical disk - move it to this or that random mix of hardware and it comes up fine. So, it IS possible.

I'll note I've come across a handful of oddities where slots matter. In one case, the 750TI will freeze for a few minutes or so WITHOUT firmware, then work fine. During that freeze, I'm sure a large percentage of users would loose patience, assume the worst, hit the big button, and log on to complain. I've had some barf tty1, while the other tty's are available for interaction and corrective action...again, the average loose patience and maybe don't know how to get to a prompt.

I've explained how dual video can be helpful - keep that igpu or whatever hooked up while probing, the xserver will often find the port and echo errors and even is interactive, even though it isn't the chosen display.
Stick them both in there! You know you can dynamically jump from nouveau to radeon or amdgpu and back once you know what's up! Every time I've had a config issue with a gpu I put it in as a secondary to work it out.

Best of Luck!

thank you for the long answer.

this still could be a hardware issue, I bought the 710, just to have a cheap gpu to drive a single display, as the CPU had no internal GPU, ( which I would have preferred). Currently no space on the MOBO for second GPU.
I noticed that also fedora and ubuntu live disks have the same issue and freeze. So this is not debian specific. But since the other distros use a xserver/full gnome setup for the install, I can't even install a more beginner friendly distros, as they crash/freeze within the first few minutes of installation.

I ordered a cheap AMD card and see if that helps, ( was lot cheaper than getting CPU with GPU in it).
I could also go back to FreeBSD, which is an even steeper learning curve than Debian. ( so far I ran FreeNAS on there, but would like something I can do a bit more with than just that)

As a user/developer I have been using linux for a few years (~8years ago), but once that is setup and runs solid I never had to touch it. So not something that ever got me much into learning Linux in any depth. Once your build setup is running with Git/cmake/kevelop, there is not much to fiddle with.