Questions about Firewalls and computer monitoring

[Marie SWE]

Don't worry about it. We have thick skins, but you might want to have the same.

I have thick skin I have grown up with interests that are male dominating so I have been hardened. Hahaha
Okay, then I will take you at your word and swear a bit in church now. Hahaha

.
Lets begin to swearing, But to you who read this, if you are sensitive souls or faint-hearted, I really suggest you stop reading or to put cotton in your ears and blinders on.
I'm not a computer nerd. I don't have computers as a hobby or an interest... I have my computers as work tools.
I was interested in computers when I was a teenager, computers were a mental challenge and something completely new for normal people in the 80s. I lived at home at that time and didn't have all the everyday things to take care of. only school, friends and some hobbies. and I was interested in computers up to the late 90's... so I lost interest around 20 years ago.
In the 80's MDA graphics standard and ms-dos were a must and in the 90's you had to hack files to get cd-rom, sound etc. to work in win 3.11, 95 and in some cases also in the first edition of 98...... It was over 20 years ago and it is still standard in linux.
The terminal........come on...seriously... everything is so ugly in terminal it feels like the old 80s with old MDA graphics. It almost a new Back to the future part4 movie
If people love the terminal design and it's old MDA graphics so much. why do they then have graphic flashy desktop environments with different gadgets on the desktop. Isn't that contradictory if you dislike GUI environments.

I really do understand that the terminal is a powerful tool(when you know all the thousand commands and codes). But what is so wrong with both having a GUI and being able to use the terminal for those who want to??
Is it the fear of the risk that regular non-computer-nerd users will start using Linux desktops OS?
Or is it because the nerds is so stuck in the 80s/90s fetish and only focus and interest is on tweaking there LinuxOS day in and day out and not use the computer to anything else?
Why is GUI's so extremely dangerous to some linux people??
GUI is easy, it is fast, when you not a programmer or a nerd with thousands of commands stuck in your head.
One example. Network sharing and setup a network drive to the workstation
Windows control panel --> Network and sharing center --> advanced sharing settings.
enable network identification, file and printer sharing, sharing so anyone with network access can read and write in the shared folder and its subfolders. Done
Right-click on the folder or partition you want to share. select properties click Sharing and Advanced Sharing. Click on share this folder. Click on permissions. add users or select all if you want guest access to work. Done
Add network disk
Navigate to the folder on the network you want to add. Right-click and click Connect Network Device. Done
This takes about 3 minutes on a newly installed windows workstation. Difficulty level 1-10 around 3 for a regular user
And in Linux. First, you need to install samba and the necessary file sharing components
Then you have to edit/hack smb.conf with some code parameters and if you do not have them in mind, you have to write them off some document one by one or cut and paste.
Then there are two ways. With Caja sharing root permission and right click on a folder/partition and click share. or via smb.conf write an entire code for a shared folder or partition.
To connect a network resource as a disk, you must edit the file fstab and write some code.
Time around 15 minutes. Difficulty level 1-10 around 8 for a regular user

Linux did have a easy gui-tool system-config-samba or what is name was.. but its gone..... why make somethings easy if you can do it the hard way.
GUI is a good thing for normal people. and it will not destroy the linux world. it can even make it grow so more people starts using it.

The terminal/CLI or what ever you want to cal it, has no spelling check so for me and everyone else who has dyslexia and difficult to spell sometimes the terminal and file hack becomes very time consuming... and it's really ugly

.
So... my point is why I want GUI's.. it is because it's efficient, it saves me a lot of time and I don't have to study code/hacks to set up my computer or use them.... and this is year 2021 and graphic design is way better than the 80s MDA graphics that iotop or htop or....... gives.
Just to be a little ironically humorous.. Some of us even have a life outside of the computer-world as well, and don't really have the time to study code and hacks for several month or even years, to setup a computer so it works.

Sorry if my swearing was too much here in church, or if stepped on someone's toe.

[Hallvor]

The terminal is intimidating to beginners, but something you'll not want to get rid of in a few years. With a few commands, I can change the desktop environment or remove the GUI and use it as a server. Try doing that in the GUI of Windows.

What desktop environment are you using? KDE is by far the most GUI point-and-click desktop environment.

One example:



GNU/Linux is not some free version of Windows. Forget it. It will never be the same. But you'll probably never have to worry about virus attacks, reboots every few days, that the system slows down terribly within a few years, and the high resource usage.

[Marie SWE]

The terminal is intimidating to beginners, but something you'll not want to get rid of in a few years. With a few commands, I can change the desktop environment or remove the GUI and use it as a server. Try doing that in the GUI of Windows.

What desktop environment are you using? KDE is by far the most GUI point-and-click desktop environment.

One example:

[img https://i.ibb.co/fXnxYkx/Screenshot-202 ... -13-46.png[/img]

GNU/Linux is not some free version of Windows. Forget it. It will never be the same. But you'll probably never have to worry about virus attacks, reboots every few days, that the system slows down terribly within a few years, and the high resource usage.

My message was not directed to you but to the linux world.

I'm not intimidated of the terminal I grow up with ms-dos and basic.. it's just so old school.. I just don't like it and it's unnecessarily time consuming and ugly.. and I don't have thousand and thousands of commands in my head or time to study em all. so GUI's is faster
??why should I remove windows GUI.. I like the gui environment.
Even If I can remove GUI it in linux, I will never do a stupid thing like that.

I used Xfce because it is resource efficient and it runs much cooler on laptops and no flashy layout it's like win2000. and I switched to use whisker menu.
I have installed a lot of GUI programs from the other desktop environments to get the best out of them all. GUI program manager from gnome and the system monitor from gnome and some other Gui's

Oh no not again...... I have heard several people say that.. And some say that you don't need to monitor your computer or local Lan at all... and that antivirus is not needed and you are only affected by viruses etc in windows.
Sorry to rock the cradle, but Linux is not an immune system. I think the last one was called EvilGnome and Linux networks has been hacked earlier in history.
Yes windows is usually targeted as there are more windows computers in the world. But the bigger the linux world gets, the more malware will come to linux systems in the future as well. yes the structure is different, but everything depends on the user.. This also applies to windows as well ... the user has to do something stupid, like install software, click on a link and approve the activity. same thing with evilgnome
So it is better to be prepared that all evil things can happen, than being naive and believing that nothing can happen to "me". it may work in stealth mode, something that you might not even notice that it even works in the background that sends data back to hackers or who ever it may be behind it take your pick.. If it doesn't interfere or is destructive to your system, it can live forever in the background and the user will never notice it because "Linux will never be affected mentality"

Why reboot windows every few days? If you can Linux you can learn windows easier and faster.
I have one win7 computer right at this moment with a uptime of over 6+month.. My HPserver is a win2008R2 it's stable to.
I know windows systems way more than I want to know it. unfortunately I have 30years of wincrap experience so I know how to tweak it to be stable, resource efficient and not have all idiotic background activity's or telemetry crap. And I can do it GUI style without filehacks or commandprompt commands.
The problem is win7EOL and win10 is a spyware rolling release, so everything that's tweaked to stop the evil M$, is undone after a big OSrollup
That's why I switched over to linux to not have to fix all computers all the time... just install, tweak it ones, make a recovery image of the system and then forget it for years to come.. If the HDD crash a year o two from now. just replace it, run recovery and the system is up within 15mins and no tweaks is necessary.. just a few security updates to install.
This is why I am spoiled and I want GUI's. easy, fast and you don't have to study codes, commands.. just have to focus on how the system works, not the code of how the system works... I'm not a programmer and I don't want to never-ever become a programmer.

:thumb up: I have full respect for programmers and they are the ones that do a fantastic job of making programs and operating systems easier for us users. But programming and code it is not my profession or my interest, so to speak...
as in the matrix movie, I will take the blue pill, i don't care for the matrix-code I care about the system working when I need to work

As in my earlier post above http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=736474#p736474 swearing in church wasn't a good thing.
I am really sorry.. I am a user... not a worshiper
sorry everyone

[steve_v]

If people love the terminal design and it's old MDA graphics so much. why do they then have graphic flashy desktop environments with different gadgets on the desktop. Isn't that contradictory if you dislike GUI environments.

I expect most people here have and use both, for variable degrees of "flashy". Some prefer very minimal desktops, but few use the console exclusively.
I for one don't dislike GUI environments, I just find them superfluous a lot of the time. Bash in a console window is literally the most frequently used application (though with stiff competition from firefox) on my shiny desktop.

I really do understand that the terminal is a powerful tool(when you know all the thousand commands and codes). But what is so wrong with both having a GUI and being able to use the terminal for those who want to??

Nothing at all. But that's very different from refusing to learn/use the terminal and complaining when certain tasks are only achievable there, or getting pissy when people ask you to run commands for troubleshooting purposes.
Both of those happen fairly regularly, and it's extremely irritating, especially when you're trying to help someone in good faith and they turn around and attack you for being a "terminal elitist". There are numerous writeups on why the CLI is better for technical support, so I'll not regurgitate them here.

Is it the fear of the risk that regular non-computer-nerd users will start using Linux desktops OS?

Personally I consider the drive for easy/pretty over functional that seems to be gaining traction somewhat counterproductive, and the "GNU/Linux needs more users" argument that always appears alongside "terminal is too hard for normal users" rather ridiculous. But that's just me. I'd much prefer a system that works over one that looks nice, and I really don't see why GNU/Linux needs a bunch more non-contributing non-technical "users".
Those two arguments almost always come from people leaving Windows and accustomed to using a commercial product from a corporation who cares about it's market share, they expect everything to be easy and they expect to have someone to blame when it doesn't work the way they want. GNU/Linux doesn't work that way at all, and we don't need the attitude.
GNU/Linux is not a product, you can't vote with your wallet, and it doesn't have any sales to compete for. If you aren't contributing it doesn't loose anything if you don't use it either.

So no, speaking only for my self of course, I'm not afraid that "regular users" will start using GNU/Linux. I just don't have time for help-vampires who will never give anything back to the community, or for people who expect someone else to work on $feature for free and complain when it isn't there.

One example. Network sharing...

For starters, SMB shares are a Windows thing and many GNU/Linux users prefer NFS/SSHFS/etc. Samba is arcane and poorly integrated into the desktop because it's a standalone server project for a non-native protocol.
Secondly, many DEs/file managers do indeed have an easy sharing configuration. I don't run Debian on any desktop machines so I can't check, but my Gentoo/KDE5 setup has an easy "share" tab in the file properties dialog.

...it can even make it grow so more people starts using it.

I was waiting for it, and there it is. It always comes around to this one argument. Why exactly does GNU/Linux need more users again?
More people using Windows means more people paying for Windows. GNU/Linux is free, so what we need isn't more users, it's more hackers. Y'know, people who contribute their time to making GNU/Linux better, so we can have more nice stuff.

So... my point is why I want GUI's.. it is because it's efficient, it saves me a lot of time and I don't have to study code/hacks to set up my computer or use them.

Personally I find the CLI more efficient. Case in point: if I want a real file manager, I still use "mc", because the keyboard is far, far faster than using a mouse... If you've used DOS you'll probably spot it as a Norton Commander clone right away.
Most people working on software for GNU/Linux work on the stuff they find useful, if that doesn't include a GUI for a particular task, it doesn't get written. vOv.
If you want something else, you're welcome to write it yourself or find a dev you can ask/bribe to do it for you.

See, we're back to the "product" vs. "community" / "want" vs "do" bit. The GNU/Linux community doesn't (for the most part) have a project-manager telling them to work on a GUI for "normal users" to boost market share. Instead, if you want something done you either ask a developer really nicely, or you learn to code and do it yourself. Complaining or appealing to market-share achieves nothing, because nobody is competing.

GNU/Linux is not a free Windows. It's not a free MacOS. It's not a commercial product at all, it's a community of users and developers (who are quite often the same people) and it doesn't have the same priorities that a corporation does.
If you want to use it effectively and be a worthwhile member of the community, you will have to unlearn the things you know from using commercial OS... Once you do, you'll never go back.

I have 30years of wincrap experience

Windows power-users are the worst. So much to unlearn they have.

I have full respect for programmers and they are the ones that do a fantastic job of making programs and operating systems easier for us users. But programming and code it is not my profession or my interest, so to speak.

Fair enough... But that doesn't buy you licence to tell people who do code that their stuff sucks or what thing they should be working on instead.

I care about the system working when I need to work

Well then you're welcome to grab the source code and make it so, or to go back to a commercial OS so you can (indirectly) pay someone else to do it for you.
To retrieve a very old meme I had laying around:

If what you want is a finished "car", with a warranty and 24/7 roadside support (as well as GPS tracking and ads on the entertainment unit), you're in the wrong place.
If you're more interested in making it your car, just how you want it, and you're not afraid to get your hands dirty, welcome aboard.

sorry everyone

Unnecessary IMO, I enjoy a good argument. Just don't expect to convince anyone so easily.

To return to the OP, I actually agree that a GUI firewall would be nice... Just not enough to complain at the lack thereof or to write one myself. The effort involved far outweighs the benefit, and GUIs are a PITA to code.
As for antimalware... 20+ years using GNU/Linux daily, zero concerns. I'm not getting sucked into that argument again, so I'll leave it at that.

[Marie SWE]

I really do understand that the terminal is a powerful tool(when you know all the thousand commands and codes). But what is so wrong with both having a GUI and being able to use the terminal for those who want to??

Nothing at all. But that's very different from refusing to learn/use the terminal and complaining when certain tasks are only achievable there, or getting pissy when people ask you to run commands for troubleshooting purposes.
Both of those happen fairly regularly, and it's extremely irritating, especially when you're trying to help someone in good faith and they turn around and attack you for being a "terminal elitist". There are numerous writeups on why the CLI is better for technical support, so I'll not regurgitate them here.

I don't get "pissy" for troubleshooting suggestions I only ask about GUI firewall and to monitor my computer thru a GUI.. I already know CLI commands thru google Here is one "sudo iotop --only --delay=1". . but I don't want 4-5 terminal windows open in the background at all time doing one thing only. I want one window so I fast can alt+tab to switch to. as I am used to. perhaps two windows. and yes I can with time learn iptabels and just isolate my linux machines from my win-machines until i have time to learn the code/commands.
I didn't ask for cli tip, I just asked about GUIs

Is it the fear of the risk that regular non-computer-nerd users will start using Linux desktops OS?

Personally I consider the drive for easy/pretty over functional that seems to be gaining traction somewhat counterproductive, and the "GNU/Linux needs more users" argument that always appears alongside "terminal is too hard for normal users" rather ridiculous. But that's just me. I'd much prefer a system that works over one that looks nice, and I really don't see why GNU/Linux needs a bunch more non-contributing non-technical "users".
Those two arguments almost always come from people leaving Windows and accustomed to using a commercial product from a corporation who cares about it's market share, they expect everything to be easy and they expect to have someone to blame when it doesn't work the way they want. GNU/Linux doesn't work that way at all, and we don't need the attitude.
GNU/Linux is not a product, you can't vote with your wallet, and it doesn't have any sales to compete for. If you aren't contributing it doesn't loose anything if you don't use it either.

So no, speaking only for my self of course, I'm not afraid that "regular users" will start using GNU/Linux. I just don't have time for help-vampires who will never give anything back to the community, or for people who expect someone else to work on $feature for free and complain when it isn't there.

Linux communitys was proud when it's reached 1% of the market and wants to be bigger and be a serious contender on the market.. how should that be possible if non-tech users is unwanted?
and yes, I have contributed... I have written a couple of GUI-style guides for the absolute beginner in a swedish forum and helped users solve linux problems and hardware problems. I also have find a way to avoid the old linux swap death problem on lowend macines and are going to write about that in the future when i get the time. so yes I do contributes.. I just prefer the gui-style-ways of things.

One example. Network sharing...

For starters, SMB shares are a Windows thing and many GNU/Linux users prefer NFS/SSHFS/etc. Samba is arcane and poorly integrated into the desktop because it's a standalone server project for a non-native protocol.
Secondly, many DEs/file managers do indeed have an easy sharing configuration. I don't run Debian on any desktop machines so I can't check, but my Gentoo/KDE5 setup has an easy "share" tab in the file properties dialog.

Yes and I do have both Linux and windows machines in my network up to 2023 online and after 2023 they will be offline but still in my network, so SMBshares is necessary.

So... my point is why I want GUI's.. it is because it's efficient, it saves me a lot of time and I don't have to study code/hacks to set up my computer or use them.

Personally I find the CLI more efficient. Case in point: if I want a real file manager, I still use "mc", because the keyboard is far, far faster than using a mouse... If you've used DOS you'll probably spot it as a Norton Commander clone right away.
Most people working on software for GNU/Linux work on the stuff they find useful, if that doesn't include a GUI for a particular task, it doesn't get written. vOv.
If you want something else, you're welcome to write it yourself or find a dev you can ask/bribe to do it for you.

See, we're back to the "product" vs. "community" / "want" vs "do" bit. The GNU/Linux community doesn't (for the most part) have a project-manager telling them to work on a GUI for "normal users" to boost market share. Instead, if you want something done you either ask a developer really nicely, or you learn to code and do it yourself. Complaining or appealing to market-share achieves nothing, because nobody is competing.

GNU/Linux is not a free Windows. It's not a free MacOS. It's not a commercial product at all, it's a community of users and developers (who are quite often the same people) and it doesn't have the same priorities that a corporation does.
If you want to use it effectively and be a worthwhile member of the community, you will have to unlearn the things you know from using commercial OS... Once you do, you'll never go back.

Oh yes i can understand that Cli is faster for you who can the commands.. I get that.. but how fast ware you in cli the first time when you didn't know all the commands. that was what i meant, I am faster in GUI do to lack of commands in my head and my dyslexia.. to exaggerate a bit, but how well does this work in terminal as it doesn't have spell checking.. apt instal libreofice... then i need to experiment with spelling or thru a spellchecker.. then the gui becomes is faster and more efficient for me. I do can spell install and office, but it was an example of a problem for some people in this world.
and yes i love to know some programmer who as the interest of making guis. and i have tried true mint to suggesting things to make some things easier for noobs. and a can't easy learn to code that does require to spell correctly all times. and it takes years to learn or schooling.

I have full respect for programmers and they are the ones that do a fantastic job of making programs and operating systems easier for us users. But programming and code it is not my profession or my interest, so to speak.

Fair enough... But that doesn't buy you licence to tell people who do code that their stuff sucks or what thing they should be working on instead.

??? where did i write that someone's code sucks... please do quote that part where I wrote that

I care about the system working when I need to work

Well then you're welcome to grab the source code and make it so, or to go back to a commercial OS so you can (indirectly) pay someone else to do it for you.
To retrieve a very old meme I had laying around:
[img https://i.postimg.cc/LssrxQTn/linux-car-kit.jpg[/img]
If what you want is a finished "car", with a warranty and 24/7 roadside support (as well as GPS tracking and ads on the entertainment unit), you're in the wrong place.
If you're more interested in making it your car, just how you want it, and you're not afraid to get your hands dirty, welcome aboard.

That's why I by a used car, i do not need roadside support i just need to know where I can get/buy the tools to use to it, not how to build the tools from scratch my self

sorry everyone

Unnecessary IMO, I enjoy a good argument. Just don't expect to convince anyone so easily.

To return to the OP, I actually agree that a GUI firewall would be nice... Just not enough to complain at the lack thereof or to write one myself. The effort involved far outweighs the benefit, and GUIs are a PITA to code.
As for antimalware... 20+ years using GNU/Linux daily, zero concerns. I'm not getting sucked into that argument again, so I'll leave it at that.

I also love a good discussion.and it's fun to meet new people with a really good discussion and a bit of humor in it all.. and it's always fun to see how big different views people have based on the different interests that we are all driven by.... and i got a chance to work on my bad English
It was fun that with the car example, as I have a interest of modify, style and tune cars.. but I will never want to build a car from scratch

[Marie SWE]

I have 30years of wincrap experience

Windows power-users are the worst. So much to unlearn they have.

I forgot this hahaha
Yep my first year with linux was the year from hell. I can sign on that one.
My window knowledge was in the way everywhere. and I mean everywhere.
It took me almost a year and a half to release it, and it's still in the way sometimes.
I know what I can do with windows systems.. and I know that it should be possible to do in linux also... it's just a matter of figuring out how to do it.

one of my motto in life is.... nothing is impossible... the impossible just takes a little longer time to solve.
So it must be possible gui style. hahaha

[steve_v]

I don't want 4-5 terminal windows open in the background at all time doing one thing only. I want one window so I fast can alt+tab to switch to.

There are ways to put CLI information up on a GUI dashboard-style interface, some of which have been mentioned. There are also plenty of GUI system monitors - none of them have exactly the same functionality as their Windows counterparts, because GNU/Linux is not Windows... but the source for these is open, so feel free to add whatever you desire.
I like ksysguard myself, but that's a KDE application. IIRC you said something about XFCE, so you probably want something with a GTK UI.

as I am used to

If you want a system that works just like you're used to, the answer is simple: Use the system you're used to.

Linux communitys was proud when it's reached 1% of the market and wants to be bigger and be a serious contender on the market.

Really? I've been using GNU/Linux exclusively since ~2000, and been active on several boards since the same. Perhaps I somehow slept through the "1%" celebration?
Oh, wait, don't tell me. It's the "year of the Linux desktop" again isn't it.

Also, "market"... What "market" is this you speak of? The one where people market software to paying customers (or mine their data as payment) perchance?
We don't compete in that market, never have, never will. If you're talking about the "respecting people's freedom, encouraging collaboration and giving everything away for free" "market", there's no need to compete because we've already won.
Somebody should really poll and plot "how much GNU/Linux needs to compete with Microsoft" against "how long has the responder been using GNU/Linux"... The result would be illuminating I'm sure.

I do have both Linux and windows machines in my network up to 2023 online and after 2023 they will be offline but still in my network, so SMBshares is necessary.

Alternatively, you could install NFS or SSHFS support on those Windows machines... Then come back and tell us how easy it was to do, without using the CLI or needing to pay for additional software
You're complaining that it's hard to do $windowsthings on GNU/Linux again.

how well does this work in terminal as it doesn't have spell checking.. apt instal libreofice...

Easy, bash-completion. apt in[TAB] libreo[TAB]
Hitting [TAB] twice in a row will even give you a list of possibilities, but surely if you've used the terminal enough to realise you really don't like it, you already knew that...

where did i write that someone's code sucks...

I never claimed you did, only that you shouldn't. You did claim that the terminal is ugly and compared GNU/Linux to Windows 3.11 though, and that's getting dangerously close to "GNU/Linux sucks" territory. People spent a bunch of time and effort coding those CLI apps you think are so '80s.

i just need to know where I can get/buy the tools to use to it, not how to build the tools from scratch my self

Well, if the thing you want doesn't exist yet, sometimes the tool required is called... GCC. It comes with many GNU/Linux distributions as standard equipment, and on Debian it's only an 'apt install gcc' away.
You'll note that the kit in the picture doesn't include a satnav, a fancy stereo system, central-locking, heated seats, nine cupholders, or self-driving ability. If you want those things you'll probably need to make them first.

the impossible just takes a little longer time to solve.
So it must be possible gui style.

Absolutely. Right after someone codes the GUI for it.

[CwF]

as I have a interest of modify, style and tune cars

Well then consider the best analogy I use, automatic or manual transmissions! The simplicity or complexity depends on your role. All kinds of pro/con. I worked on hydrostatics, so a little outside common usage, but even simpler to drive with a joytick.

Once upon a time I did CAD on the command line, more like within an edlin like cli. I walked to another building for plots. By the time I end I expect the cli to be very inconvenient compared to talking and pointing.

Linux can not follow the same path as windows. The user base is so different, the evolutions don't compare. With few, mostly expert users and many vertical scaled uses, linux's don't have the bulk in the middle windows had. That's how Linux is both vastly superior and a decade behind. It's excellent, or it doesn't do that...

A simpler glade or better zenity, along with fm based custom actions we can get off the command line for lots. But many things still need built, that's just where we are.

As far as the OP, we are working from potentially an audited system. We don't need it, yet.

[steve_v]

better zenity

Oh, you must mean kdialog

[CwF]

you must mean kdialog

maybe so. but I heard KDE was good for windows users!
Maybe I should try it someday.

[steve_v]

maybe so. but I heard KDE was good for windows users!

If by "good for windows users" you mean "uses the traditional desktop paradigm rather than trying to force you to change your workflow", and "still supports all the usual customisation without 50 shell-extensions" then yeah, I guess it is. You can make it look and behave very much like Windows (or MacOS, or whatever really) if that's what floats your boat. Or not, it's configurable.

I'll use XFCE or LXDE if I need a DE for an underpowered machine, but the last time I didn't loathe using GNOME was before the great 2.0 feature-castration. I hear they're even discouraging user theming these days, of all things.
I just like a desktop with icons, a traditional menu, and window controls on my windows.
And as for CSD... Don't get me started on the CSD thing. Let's just say patching GTK is becoming a bit of a chore...

[Hallvor]

My message was not directed to you but to the linux world.

It is probably not listening, but a few of us are here.

Even If I can remove GUI it in linux, I will never do a stupid thing like that.

Perhaps not, but people wanting to run Debian as a headless server might... And that’s not stupid. The point was to show how powerful and flexible the CLI is, but it seems you didn't get it.

I used Xfce because it is resource efficient and it runs much cooler on laptops and no flashy layout it's like win2000. and I switched to use whisker menu.
I have installed a lot of GUI programs from the other desktop environments to get the best out of them all. GUI program manager from gnome and the system monitor from gnome and some other Gui's

XFCE is not resource efficient any more of you install all sorts of stuff from other desktop environments. Secondly, you have chosen a desktop environment that is designed to be small, fast and to have few features. It is made for people who will want to use the CLI more than, say, KDE. And still you complain that you’ll have to use the CLI? This is like purchasing a tiny car for your family of five, and then complain to everyone that the car is too small. You chose it.

If you want to use the CLI as little as possible, KDE is by far the most feature rich. If that isn’t to your liking, there is always Windows or MacOS.

Sorry to rock the cradle, but Linux is not an immune system.

Who said that GNU/Linux was an immune system? I certainly didn’t. Of course a GNU/Linux system may get infected, but the number of viruses can be counted on fingers:

https://www.unixmen.com/meet-linux-viruses/

For Windows, there was about a million as early as 2008:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/144181/article.html

In an earlier post I referred to the differences like between a war zone and a quiet suburb, where Windows resides in a very hostile area, while GNU/Linux resides in a peaceful one with just a tiny fraction of the risk. Of course it is not an immune, just like any suburb isn't immune to homicides or stabbings, and of course you still need to use your brain. But all the worst malware threats are still for Windows. GNU/Linux distros still have software repositories with key signing, and Windows users will still (for the most part) download software from the Web.

But the bigger the linux world gets, the more malware will come to linux systems in the future as well.

Yes, and if I had four wheels, I’d be a car.

Seriously, though. GNU/Linux is already a major player. 100% of the world’s top supercomputers run Linux, 96,3% of the world’s top 1 million servers run Linux, 90% of all cloud infrastructure run Linux, and practically all the best cloud hosts use it.

https://hostingtribunal.com/blog/linux-statistics/

Why reboot windows every few days?

It slows down and frequently locks up, and stuff like printing and connecting wirelessly to a projector becomes unreliable.

And I can do it GUI style without filehacks or commandprompt commands.

Your Windows skills aren’t worth anything here. Suck it up and learn, or go elsewhere.

This is why I am spoiled and I want GUI's. easy, fast and you don't have to study codes, commands.. just have to focus on how the system works, not the code of how the system works... I'm not a programmer and I don't want to never-ever become a programmer.

I share your sentiments, for the most part. I have also little interest in coding or tinkering.. That is why I use Debian. It is conservative, has low risk of breaking, and with KDE, I can do most things in the GUI. It is the laziest and most hassle-free combo I know.

[steve_v]

To return to the OP, sans ongoing and entirely predictable "Linux is not" responses to unrealistic expectations:

when a new program wants network access, the firewall should ask if the program should be denied or allowed.

There is this little experiment... It's very new and under active development (which is to say "not a chance it's in the Debian repos"), but it looks like it's heading towards the thing you're looking for. No support for inbound rules in the GUI yet, but it's a start.
If you're willing to experiment (and probably tolerate considerable borkage as well as conspiculously missing features), it might be worth a look. It's also written in python, which if you are actually interested in contributing (as in code, not yet-another-gui-guide-to-simple-things) is a pretty easy language to work with.

Note I said "experiment with", not "trust and use daily". If you insist on having everything served to you on a silver-platter with a slick GUI, you're still in the wrong place.

Also, +1 what Hallvor said. As usual

[Marie SWE]

I don't want 4-5 terminal windows open in the background at all time doing one thing only. I want one window so I fast can alt+tab to switch to.

There are ways to put CLI information up on a GUI dashboard-style interface, some of which have been mentioned. There are also plenty of GUI system monitors - none of them have exactly the same functionality as their Windows counterparts, because GNU/Linux is not Windows... but the source for these is open, so feel free to add whatever you desire.
I like ksysguard myself, but that's a KDE application. IIRC you said something about XFCE, so you probably want something with a GTK UI.

I have saved all your peoples tips in a text document, so I will look and test them all one by one.
I tested Conky little fast, but I think something went wrong, I didn't get a window, just a desktop gadget and no possibility to open configuration settings, so I have to test again when I have a little more time than 15 minutes at the computer. I did rush that test a bit
ksysguard looks like gnome-system-monitor I use at the moment but when my hdd goes hyperactive in my laptops i miss the HDD activity part.. often it's swap activity but sometimes it isn't and i then wonder.... what a ****
Yes i have Xfce as base but i have kidnapped a lot of things from gnome, and kde to get GUI solutions i liked about the other. that is one thing i really, really like about linux.. it's possible to take things from different DE's/distros and make your own thing. but it is a loooong learning curve and time consuming.. The corona pandemic tragedy is to my advantage, as social life an many things is affected and I unfortunately get extra time at home. so I trying to take advantage of the evil corona thing to get something good out of it.. so I have manage to renovate my office here at home as I have avoided doing for the last 6 years

as I am used to

If you want a system that works just like you're used to, the answer is simple: Use the system you're used to.

no no no... it's more to the left.. it is the support bearing for the drive shaft as is the problem.
But seriously, if not win10 had been a rolling release I had continued with wincrap.
I had just ripped out cortana, onedrive, all bloatware and telemetry crap as i have done on windowsOS since XP.. win8.1 was the last one it was possible to it to, but it has EOL2023..... I know the system's weaknesses, strengths and functions... and i have all software, paid and free i need... and I wouldn't need to learn new things to be able to continue working from home. So yes my life would be a little bit easier that way.
But now things are as they are, and I trying to make the best of it with the time I can squeeze in for learning.
Primary is to quickly get the system working and up and running, and then when everything works I can dig deeper into detail levels of things.
and my system do work.. just this two items i missing so to speak.

Linux communitys was proud when it's reached 1% of the market and wants to be bigger and be a serious contender on the market.

Really? I've been using GNU/Linux exclusively since ~2000, and been active on several boards since the same. Perhaps I somehow slept through the "1%" celebration?
Oh, wait, don't tell me. It's the "year of the Linux desktop" again isn't it.

Also, "market"... What "market" is this you speak of? The one where people market software to paying customers (or mine their data as payment) perchance?
We don't compete in that market, never have, never will. If you're talking about the "respecting people's freedom, encouraging collaboration and giving everything away for free" "market", there's no need to compete because we've already won.
Somebody should really poll and plot "how much GNU/Linux needs to compete with Microsoft" against "how long has the responder been using GNU/Linux"... The result would be illuminating I'm sure.

I spent most times on Swedish forums.. so i have only heard what they are discussing.
But microsoft needs a competitor so they have to stop doing their crazy, insane, things they are doing.. M$ have become totally crazy about the ultimate control over their customers and built in surveillance backdoors and they have access to all customers personal data that are on the HDD's.. and they justifies it by saying that "if we suspect crime", they can read content, activate the microphone and webcam
One can wonder when in hell did Microsoft became part of the police force
So I would like/wish that Linux became that competitor so the question about integrity and the right to my data is my data and I share it only when/if I want to share it.
That was one good thing in the beginning with win7 where you could check a box if you wanted to participate or not in the customer experience program. But a few years later, they started activating the crap with KB updates so the telemetry began flowed. so you needed to know what updates to stop

You're complaining that it's hard to do $windowsthings on GNU/Linux again.

How many years of experience do you have in modifying and tweaking Linux systems?
I have a total of 4-6 month experience 2month summer of 2018 then i first touched a linux machine (Mint18.3) then around 1month spring 2019 when i switched to LMDE3 and then sporadically combined 3month under 2020 researching swapdeath and testing some fixes... and now 2021 3weeks with Debian setting up network and tweak/customizing my install.
So of course it will take time before I achieve your folks knowledge with my inefficient time of tweaking in Linux... I will make big mistakes, I will swear, I will hate my computer's, I would probably sometimes wish I could make it all go away. and I will complaining about things..
But I will eventually learn it. But the road is long before it becomes a reality.

how well does this work in terminal as it doesn't have spell checking.. apt instal libreofice...

Easy, bash-completion. apt in[TAB] libreo[TAB]
Hitting [TAB] twice in a row will even give you a list of possibilities, but surely if you've used the terminal enough to realise you really don't like it, you already knew that...

No I didn't know that.. nobody has ever tip me about that. of what I learned about linux so far I have learned on my own. I have not had the help of anyone who knows Linux and the questions I asked on two forums(now three) have only been "thing specific" questions

where did i write that someone's code sucks...

I never claimed you did, only that you shouldn't. You did claim that the terminal is ugly and compared GNU/Linux to Windows 3.11 though, and that's getting dangerously close to "GNU/Linux sucks" territory. People spent a bunch of time and effort coding those CLI apps you think are so '80s.

Okay, it was the graphic i was talking about. I think the same about the command prompt and powershell in windows. it is only text/symbols no round rings, no soft design lines and that part so to speak. Not the code or programs itself that runs in Terminal.. graphics only.
it is easy to be misunderstood when I can't explain myself perfect from start.

i just need to know where I can get/buy the tools to use to it, not how to build the tools from scratch my self

Well, if the thing you want doesn't exist yet, sometimes the tool required is called... GCC. It comes with many GNU/Linux distributions as standard equipment, and on Debian it's only an 'apt install gcc' away.

If do not know about it, that's why I asking if things exists when i wonder and google don't give me the answers.
if I never ask, I will never know... I have learned that just because google doesn't give a hit, that doesn't means there isn't one.. it could be me who formulates the question/search wrong in google.

the impossible just takes a little longer time to solve.
So it must be possible gui style.

Absolutely. Right after someone codes the GUI for it.

So true, soooo true

[Marie SWE]

as I have a interest of modify, style and tune cars

Well then consider the best analogy I use, automatic or manual transmissions! The simplicity or complexity depends on your role. All kinds of pro/con. I worked on hydrostatics, so a little outside common usage, but even simpler to drive with a joytick.

Once upon a time I did CAD on the command line, more like within an edlin like cli. I walked to another building for plots. By the time I end I expect the cli to be very inconvenient compared to talking and pointing.

Linux can not follow the same path as windows. The user base is so different, the evolutions don't compare. With few, mostly expert users and many vertical scaled uses, linux's don't have the bulk in the middle windows had. That's how Linux is both vastly superior and a decade behind. It's excellent, or it doesn't do that...

A simpler glade or better zenity, along with fm based custom actions we can get off the command line for lots. But many things still need built, that's just where we are.

As far as the OP, we are working from potentially an audited system. We don't need it, yet.

I believe it would be real difficult to drive a car with a joystick
But i get your point.

what do you mean by linux can not follow the same path as windows?
libre office instead of MSoffice, Gimp instead of adobe photoshop, caja, nemo, thunar instead of explorer
Why not a GUI firewall and a system monitor program? is that so different than the other programs..

Just wondering what you meant.

[Marie SWE]

Even If I can remove GUI it in linux, I will never do a stupid thing like that.

Perhaps not, but people wanting to run Debian as a headless server might... And that’s not stupid. The point was to show how powerful and flexible the CLI is, but it seems you didn't get it.

I run 2008R2 on my server with extended support, and I'm going to be forced to go Linux on that one as well.. but it will probably be redhat and payed support on that one, if I don't learn Linux so good as needed by 2023.

I used Xfce because it is resource efficient and it runs much cooler on laptops and no flashy layout it's like win2000. and I switched to use whisker menu.
I have installed a lot of GUI programs from the other desktop environments to get the best out of them all. GUI program manager from gnome and the system monitor from gnome and some other Gui's

XFCE is not resource efficient any more of you install all sorts of stuff from other desktop environments. Secondly, you have chosen a desktop environment that is designed to be small, fast and to have few features. It is made for people who will want to use the CLI more than, say, KDE. And still you complain that you’ll have to use the CLI? This is like purchasing a tiny car for your family of five, and then complain to everyone that the car is too small. You chose it.

If you want to use the CLI as little as possible, KDE is by far the most feature rich. If that isn’t to your liking, there is always Windows or MacOS

maybe not, but Xfce made 8-10 degrees celsius cooler difference on my three laptops.
So yes it did make a difference. and other on linuxmint.com tested it as well and saw the same difference i can link the tread if you want?

Okaj, i will test KDE and see if it has more gui tools than I manage to install on Xfce. thanks for the tip

Sorry to rock the cradle, but Linux is not an immune system.

Who said that GNU/Linux was an immune system? I certainly didn’t. Of course a GNU/Linux system may get infected, but the number of viruses can be counted on fingers:

https://www.unixmen.com/meet-linux-viruses/

For Windows, there was about a million as early as 2008:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/144181/article.html

In an earlier post I referred to the differences like between a war zone and a quiet suburb, where Windows resides in a very hostile area, while GNU/Linux resides in a peaceful one with just a tiny fraction of the risk. Of course it is not an immune, just like any suburb isn't immune to homicides or stabbings, and of course you still need to use your brain. But all the worst malware threats are still for Windows. GNU/Linux distros still have software repositories with key signing, and Windows users will still (for the most part) download software from the Web.

It makes no difference if there are 100 million viruses or three. if bad luck strikes, you get into trouble in any case.
It is when people are a beginner and inexperienced that thay make mistakes.
I didn't learn until I read about evilgnome not to use repos outside of reliable distros own repos. no one had mentioned that to me.
In windows you have antivirus, antimalwere anti it and anti that and some more.
So you can download programs thru torrents or websites and then scan them.. (however, hold on them for a while before using/scan them if they are zerodays and antivirus/malware programs have not been updated yet)

The danger I see is that I know that windows is an exposed and targeted system, so I have a high awareness that it can happen at any time.
But in linux if I think it can never happen, then you let go of the guard and the risk increases that you may never notice when/if you become infected. That's how I look at it.
I have read in many places when I googled for antivirus under2018 and was quite often I read. You do not need antivirus in linux because you can't get infected as in windows.

and to get hacked that is not a OS thing.
I had an intrusion attempt yesterday and my whole system locked down as protection. so it is a good thing to be prepared that bad things can happen when you least expect it. So i called my ISP and now got a new IP. and I use vpn so that my public ip will not be visible on websites I visit.
crap happens some times. hahaha

But the bigger the linux world gets, the more malware will come to linux systems in the future as well.

Yes, and if I had four wheels, I’d be a car.

Seriously, though. GNU/Linux is already a major player. 100% of the world’s top supercomputers run Linux, 96,3% of the world’s top 1 million servers run Linux, 90% of all cloud infrastructure run Linux, and practically all the best cloud hosts use it.

https://hostingtribunal.com/blog/linux-statistics/

Yes and if my car had wings i would fly every day.
Yes i know that linux server is dominating that market. and i like it. F*** you microsoft hahaha
But i hope linux becomes a contender to microsoft.. they have way to much power

Why reboot windows every few days?

It slows down and frequently locks up, and stuff like printing and connecting wirelessly to a projector becomes unreliable.

Okay, it's guaranteed to be some background activity via scheduler that mess it up. windows is completely manic about running crap in background that colides with devices and programs and if you run programs that Microsoft doesn't like, it's a bit like asking for problems.. and in win 10 you can not as easily disable scheduler via services for a few days test it. that service is grayed out in 10.
I have a win7pro computer connected to my TV to watch movies, series, play music (offline) occasionally it happens that I stream movies and series online. I have not restarted that one in six months.
It is noticeable that microsoft does not expect people to have them on for that long, because the uptime counter starts at zero again after 99 days 23hours 59minutes and 59seconds uptime

And I can do it GUI style without filehacks or commandprompt commands.

Your Windows skills aren’t worth anything here. Suck it up and learn, or go elsewhere.

what do you think I'm trying to? I don't think you learned Linux overnight either.

This is why I am spoiled and I want GUI's. easy, fast and you don't have to study codes, commands.. just have to focus on how the system works, not the code of how the system works... I'm not a programmer and I don't want to never-ever become a programmer.

I share your sentiments, for the most part. I have also little interest in coding or tinkering.. That is why I use Debian. It is conservative, has low risk of breaking, and with KDE, I can do most things in the GUI. It is the laziest and most hassle-free combo I know.

that is the thing i am trying to figure out and learn. Mint was easy.. LMDE3 was little more hand on fixing. and now debian and i hope i can use it for ever. i just have to learn what is possimple and was is't

[Marie SWE]

To return to the OP, sans ongoing and entirely predictable "Linux is not" responses to unrealistic expectations:

when a new program wants network access, the firewall should ask if the program should be denied or allowed.

There is this little experiment... It's very new and under active development (which is to say "not a chance it's in the Debian repos"), but it looks like it's heading towards the thing you're looking for. No support for inbound rules in the GUI yet, but it's a start.
If you're willing to experiment (and probably tolerate considerable borkage as well as conspiculously missing features), it might be worth a look. It's also written in python, which if you are actually interested in contributing (as in code, not yet-another-gui-guide-to-simple-things) is a pretty easy language to work with.

Note I said "experiment with", not "trust and use daily". If you insist on having everything served to you on a silver-platter with a slick GUI, you're still in the wrong place.

Also, +1 what Hallvor said. As usual

Thanks i will take a look at that this weekend. I have way too many things this week to try new things, that needs a little peace and quiet for to get it right.
I have one computer just for experimenting with debian, before installing anything on my work computers. its to prevent downtime. I still run LMDE3 on three of my Linux based computers and debian on one desktop so I can fail without getting in trouble... and i have already failed two times so i had to reinstalled it.
I just wish i could spend a couple of hours everyday with this to learn faster.

[steve_v]

I tested Conky little fast, but I think something went wrong, I didn't get a window, just a desktop gadget and no possibility to open configuration settings, so I have to test again when I have a little more time than 15 minutes at the computer.

That's how conky works. There's no configuration GUI as such, you describe what you want in the monitor gadget and how it looks by editing the configuration file.
That's how many things work on GNU/Linux in general, you'd do well to get used to it.

ksysguard looks like gnome-system-monitor I use at the moment but when my hdd goes hyperactive in my laptops i miss the HDD activity part.

The "process table" page can display "disk read" and "disk write" columns, right-click the column titles to enable them. You can also create your own monitor pages (or get them from the notoriously flaky and outdated "KDE store"). You can even connect to and monitor a remote machine over SSH.

But seriously, if not win10 had been a rolling release I had continued with wincrap...

Primary is to quickly get the system working and up and running, and then when everything works I can dig deeper into detail levels of things.

But seriously, that's not a very productive approach. Trying to replicate your windows environment, find direct equivalents to all your windows applications, and apply your windows knowledge will only lead to frustration. Doubly so if you're trying to do it quickly.
If you want an easy install up and running quickly, you need to accept that some things you are used to are not going to be there. You can have most of what you're used to, in some shape or form (*cough* CLI), but some of those are advanced topics that will take time and effort to set up. Unfortunately advanced firewalls are for the most part in the latter category.
GNU/Linux being GNU/Linux, there generally aren't any "paid app" shortcuts for this either.

I suggest you keep Windows around for when you need your familiar things to just work. Play around with your GNU/Linux install, learn how it works and how things are done. Break it, repeatedly, ask questions, learn how to fix it. Discover the power of an operating system you can modify in any way you want and share with anyone you please, without being in a rush.

Then, when your attitude has morphed from "I need to ditch windows spyware" to "I don't need Windows, GNU/Linux is better because it's free (or because it's *nix)", that's the time to move permanently.

But microsoft needs a competitor so they have to stop doing their crazy, insane, things they are doing.. M$ have become totally crazy about the ultimate control over their customers and built in surveillance backdoors and they have access to all customers personal data that are on the HDD's.. and they justifies it by saying that "if we suspect crime", they can read content, activate the microphone and webcam
One can wonder when in hell did Microsoft became part of the police force
So I would like/wish that Linux became that competitor so the question about integrity and the right to my data is my data and I share it only when/if I want to share it.

While GNU/Linux is indeed a good choice if you want to escape corporate surveillance, that's a very shallow view of free-software. Visit gnu.org if you want to see what the GNU in GNU/Linux is actually about.

GNU/Linux is an alternative to proprietary operating systems, not a competitor. It will never really be a competitor to Microsoft, because it doesn't play in the same ballpark.
The GNU/Linux community celebrates when another mind joins the club, and when it frees people from the tyranny of proprietary software, not because it's somehow beating Microsoft into submission or winning market share... Unless you're a gamer of course, gamers do care about market share, because they want more proprietary games.

As others have already said, we've pretty much won any "competition for market share" anyway, at least for the markets where we care. Without a single shot fired.
The biggest target audience has historically been (and likely always will be) the sysadmins, the hackers, and the specialised system developers. In those markets GNU/Linux is overwhelmingly the OS of choice. The middle, the average home users, simply haven't been a priority.
Since the average home user is pretty clueless anyway (no offence intended, you're clearly not that), IMO we really don't need them. They're not going to pitch in and make the OS better, they're just going to surf facebook and complain when stuff breaks.
If we were to make GNU/Linux as "average user" friendly as Windows, we'd just be making another Windows. That would be horrible.

How many years of experience do you have in modifying and tweaking Linux systems?

20, give or take a few. I started with the most arcane distribution possible (Slackware), on horribly obsolete hardware, back when getting a GUI of any kind to work at all was many hours of mucking with configuration files... You did ask.

of course it will take time before I achieve your folks knowledge with my inefficient time of tweaking in Linux... I will make big mistakes, I will swear, I will hate my computer's, I would probably sometimes wish I could make it all go away. and I will complaining about things..
But I will eventually learn it. But the road is long before it becomes a reality.

Of course, that's how it always works. Props to you for sticking with it, and for the the positive attitude. The vast majority of people give up the moment they have to learn anything new.

No I didn't know that.. nobody has ever tip me about that. of what I learned about linux so far I have learned on my own. I have not had the help of anyone who knows Linux and the questions I asked on two forums(now three) have only been "thing specific" questions

Well... I only recently learned to use bash's totally awesome keybinds properly. All those years of wasted keystrokes...
There's always new stuff to learn, that's part of the appeal.
IIRC the moment my attitude flipped from "this is DOS, I hate DOS" to "the CLI on GNU/Linux is freaking awesome" was around about when I discovered tab-completion...


I too learned what I know by figuring it out myself, and it shows in just how much I don't know. In hindsight I probably should have read a book or something. There are many such documents out there, but I don't have any specific recommendation, someone else here might.


On why GNU/Linux doesn't have a clicky helper tool for everything (full of emoticons and no more than 3 syllable words), and expects that you will actually want to use the CLI, you might try this little snippet on the Linux philosophy.
This operating system is at heart a reimplementation of old-school UNIX, created by a bunch of nonconformist hackers and computer nerds, for nonconformist hackers and computer nerds. Quite often it shows, and quite often it shows in that the user interface is arcane and/or incomplete, and the user is expected to be at least halfway competent.
It's a UNIX thing really, elegance (in the sense of the code) over elegance (in the sense of the UI). Power over pretty, function over form, fishing lessons over free fish.

TBH on the rare occasion when I have to use Windows, it's not the spyware that annoys me most... It's the pervasive attitude that all computer users were repeatedly dropped on their heads as children, and what's actually going on needs to be hidden behind a meaningless animation lest it scare people away. Witness the witless baby-speak in the Windows 10 installer...

[Marie SWE]

I tested Conky little fast, but I think something went wrong, I didn't get a window, just a desktop gadget and no possibility to open configuration settings, so I have to test again when I have a little more time than 15 minutes at the computer.

That's how conky works. There's no configuration GUI as such, you describe what you want in the monitor gadget and how it looks by editing the configuration file.
That's how many things work on GNU/Linux in general, you'd do well to get used to it.

ksysguard looks like gnome-system-monitor I use at the moment but when my hdd goes hyperactive in my laptops i miss the HDD activity part.

The "process table" page can display "disk read" and "disk write" columns, right-click the column titles to enable them. You can also create your own monitor pages (or get them from the notoriously flaky and outdated "KDE store"). You can even connect to and monitor a remote machine over SSH.

I tested to install ksysguard on my LMDE laptop, and it's better than gnomemonitor as you saying. Do you know if it is possible to get it to list what file who gets read/written to?
And this conkey is it only a gadget or is it possible to run it in a separate windows like ksysguard?

But seriously, if not win10 had been a rolling release I had continued with wincrap...
Primary is to quickly get the system working and up and running, and then when everything works I can dig deeper into detail levels of things.

But seriously, that's not a very productive approach. Trying to replicate your windows environment, find direct equivalents to all your windows applications, and apply your windows knowledge will only lead to frustration. Doubly so if you're trying to do it quickly.
If you want an easy install up and running quickly, you need to accept that some things you are used to are not going to be there. You can have most of what you're used to, in some shape or form (*cough* CLI), but some of those are advanced topics that will take time and effort to set up. Unfortunately advanced firewalls are for the most part in the latter category.
GNU/Linux being GNU/Linux, there generally aren't any "paid app" shortcuts for this either.

I suggest you keep Windows around for when you need your familiar things to just work. Play around with your GNU/Linux install, learn how it works and how things are done. Break it, repeatedly, ask questions, learn how to fix it. Discover the power of an operating system you can modify in any way you want and share with anyone you please, without being in a rush.

Then, when your attitude has morphed from "I need to ditch windows spyware" to "I don't need Windows, GNU/Linux is better because it's free (or because it's *nix)", that's the time to move permanently.

yes I know I didn't switch to Linux for the right reason, but I have to, just for microsoft forcing my hand and to choose between a rock and a hard place.. apple is 2degrees better than microsoft but apple/mac solutions is way too expensive as it requires me to replace ALL hardware. That would be a lot of spent $ that I can use for better things in life with my income, So Linux is the absolute best thing of them all , even if that is hard work and some pain.... and if present time had been 20+ years ago it would have been a little bit easier as I had a computer interest at that time.
My big advantage is that I'm not tied up to specific microsoft programs or is a gamer.
I do use dualboot on almost all computers as backup in case I need windows or if one OS crashes, I just boot into the other and I can solve the problem when I get the time for it. I use windows ones or twice a month in average. But now LMDE3 is EOL so i need to replace it.. and install LMDE4 is not the best option.. short lifetime and its "almost" as much work to install that one as Debian... and with Debian I get a longer lifetime before EOL, so it's feels like the right step to do.... even if i going to make me swear a hundred times over.
My server and my computer I have to my TV is not dualboot and will never become dualboot systems.

I have accepted the fact that i have to use cli and hack/modifying files when I install and set up my system the first time.. it's when that process is over and everyday life starts to spin on and I just use my computers I want to avoid cli.
A bit like my engine in my summer car, I modified it to get more power and I painted it in purple, gold and with black details.. and when all was done it just is there now and I don't fix with it or notes it more than I do a service once a year. like an operating system/engine.. you install you tweak it and then when all is done, you forget about it.. just service it with security updates add a program or add a firewall rule when something is changed. (like engine service) It's here it really shows that i lost my computer interest.
and I'm almost ashamed of myself for being in here, considering I'm among you all who do have a burning interest left. and at the same time a little jealous that I don't have it left anymore like you all in here.
Now it now it became a bit depressing atmosphere, best to talk about other things. Hahaha

Thanks I will take a look at all your links after i have sent this post

But microsoft needs a competitor so they have to stop doing their crazy, insane, things they are doing.. M$ have become totally crazy about the ultimate control over their customers and built in surveillance backdoors and they have access to all customers personal data that are on the HDD's.. and they justifies it by saying that "if we suspect crime", they can read content, activate the microphone and webcam
One can wonder when in hell did Microsoft became part of the police force
So I would like/wish that Linux became that competitor so the question about integrity and the right to my data is my data and I share it only when/if I want to share it.

While GNU/Linux is indeed a good choice if you want to escape corporate surveillance, that's a very shallow view of free-software. Visit gnu.org if you want to see what the GNU in GNU/Linux is actually about.

GNU/Linux is an alternative to proprietary operating systems, not a competitor. It will never really be a competitor to Microsoft, because it doesn't play in the same ballpark.
The GNU/Linux community celebrates when another mind joins the club, and when it frees people from the tyranny of proprietary software, not because it's somehow beating Microsoft into submission or winning market share... Unless you're a gamer of course, gamers do care about market share, because they want more proprietary games.

Yes i do know But I can wish for it, can't I? use the whip on M$
One of the big questions i do burn for and spend free time on, is the right to integrity and to have the choice yourself, that my data is my data and the right to have the choice to choose whether I want or not want to share it and what i share
I have participated in the customer experience program on a win7 machine. Likewise with Firefox ticked in to share. But I have never done it on a work computer. The developers they do need feedback to make a good product and I am willing to help sometimes when I get the choice to choose for myself and what computer to activate it on.

As others have already said, we've pretty much won any "competition for market share" anyway, at least for the markets where we care. Without a single shot fired.
The biggest target audience has historically been (and likely always will be) the sysadmins, the hackers, and the specialised system developers. In those markets GNU/Linux is overwhelmingly the OS of choice. The middle, the average home users, simply haven't been a priority.
Since the average home user is pretty clueless anyway (no offence intended, you're clearly not that), IMO we really don't need them. They're not going to pitch in and make the OS better, they're just going to surf facebook and complain when stuff breaks.
If we were to make GNU/Linux as "average user" friendly as Windows, we'd just be making another Windows. That would be horrible.

no offence taken
I maybe not dropped on my head or clueless, but I ain't a sysadmin, and not a hacker and no developer or burning for the cause. I do am the stupid user in one way, so to speak. now I have said it, so no one else needs to say it. Hahaha

But do I like to share my experiences to make it easier for new linux users, I do think linux is the future in one way... that's why I have written some Swedish how to guides, and if I see a question that I feel, yes this one I can the answer to, or I know so much that I dare to answer it, Then I do it.
I actually have two small projects in progress.
My first.... Is it as difficult/easy to learn how to use a linux computer VS a windows computer for a person who has never even touched a computer in his/her entire life.
I think it's just as easy/difficult, because a person who has never sat at a computer does not know what windows is more than that they maybe have heard the name. With absolutely zero knowledge, they can't install or tweak in windows either, they need some one to build and install the computer first.
My second one is, write an absolute beginner's guide in Swedish for dummies aimed at those who more or less have it's thumb in the middle of their hand, How they can install Mint20.x dualboot or on an old discarded computer and there first steps into the linux world, step by step and with printscreen pictures.
The first thing I will mention in it, is that linux is not for everyone. for one example, the one who is 99% dependent on windows programs or who only has the computer to play games on. Of course you can run some windows programs in wine and make games (win-based) games work in linux. But it is not uncomplicated and not for the absolute beginner with the thumb in the wrong place. And if they like linux then they maybe have the start to evolve and become the next generation of linux users.. super advanced or not .. depending on how much time they spend and how curious they becomes of linux.

How many years of experience do you have in modifying and tweaking Linux systems?

20, give or take a few. I started with the most arcane distribution possible (Slackware), on horribly obsolete hardware, back when getting a GUI of any kind to work at all was many hours of mucking with configuration files... You did ask.

I rest my case,.. that's why you beat my ass fifty times over in linux knowledge... 20year VS 4-6 active month
I can almost imagine that linux 20years ago, the most user-friendly part was when you put the CD in the cd-rom drive and closed the lid.
I have notice just only since 2018 some things actually has become easier. so on 20years.. probably extremely easier.

of course it will take time before I achieve your folks knowledge with my inefficient time of tweaking in Linux... I will make big mistakes, I will swear, I will hate my computer's, I would probably sometimes wish I could make it all go away. and I will complaining about things..
But I will eventually learn it. But the road is long before it becomes a reality.

Of course, that's how it always works. Props to you for sticking with it, and for the the positive attitude. The vast majority of people give up the moment they have to learn anything new.

Thanks.
But I was almost about to throw the computer out the window, with it closed during my first year of hell (well my first 6-8 months to be completely honest was my year of hell)
I was seriously about to give up a couple of times during 2018 about my goal to not be dependent on windows when win7 reached EOL2020. But my hate of what microsoft is doing was and is my driving force that kept/keep me going even when it's tough.
Hate is some time a good motivation in life.. and for the star wars fans. no it doesn't always lead to the dark side. Hahaha

No I didn't know that.. nobody has ever tip me about that. of what I learned about linux so far I have learned on my own. I have not had the help of anyone who knows Linux and the questions I asked on two forums(now three) have only been "thing specific" questions

Well... I only recently learned to use bash's totally awesome keybinds properly. All those years of wasted keystrokes...
There's always new stuff to learn, that's part of the appeal.
IIRC the moment my attitude flipped from "this is DOS, I hate DOS" to "the CLI on GNU/Linux is freaking awesome" was around about when I discovered tab-completion...


I too learned what I know by figuring it out myself, and it shows in just how much I don't know. In hindsight I probably should have read a book or something. There are many such documents out there, but I don't have any specific recommendation, someone else here might.


On why GNU/Linux doesn't have a clicky helper tool for everything (full of emoticons and no more than 3 syllable words), and expects that you will actually want to use the CLI, you might try this little snippet on the Linux philosophy.
This operating system is at heart a reimplementation of old-school UNIX, created by a bunch of nonconformist hackers and computer nerds, for nonconformist hackers and computer nerds. Quite often it shows, and quite often it shows in that the user interface is arcane and/or incomplete, and the user is expected to be at least halfway competent.
It's a UNIX thing really, elegance (in the sense of the code) over elegance (in the sense of the UI). Power over pretty, function over form, fishing lessons over free fish.

TBH on the rare occasion when I have to use Windows, it's not the spyware that annoys me most... It's the pervasive attitude that all computer users were repeatedly dropped on their heads as children, and what's actually going on needs to be hidden behind a meaningless animation lest it scare people away. Witness the witless baby-speak in the Windows 10 installer...

my experience was more, okay this is DOS and i must have it what is the programs i can use on this... I loved when 3.11 came and to have real graphic 2 or 4bit i think it was EGA.. but still DOS needed.. and when win98SE came and win2000.. my feeling was YES windows made DOS go away and then16Bit SVGA.. wow i will never ever go back to "square graphic 2-4Bit" again was my feeling.
so yes we had a slightly different start in computer life

That is the most beauty and basic thing in life.. we all learn new things until the day we die. nobody will ever be completely learned in something.. because everything evolves over time.. we all can just trying to keep up.

I thank you for your thought and consideration but I avoid reading massive texts about things, as my dyslexia irritates me when I read for a little longer time. the text almost flows together after a while so I have to take a break.
The absolutely fastest ways I learn is by looking at how things are done and then practicing what I have seen with someone beside me who can make sure I do the right way.. then I learn things almost overnight. But unfortunately it doesn't apply to code as it is text to read even if i stand beside someone.
I have seen ChrisTitus live streaming on twitch a few times, he is pretty good on explain things, and that has given some insight and knowledge about Linux

Okay I only need to use windows or MSoffice when some one sends some excel document that libre/open/free office can't read correctly. so i am pretty free from microsofts claws.

[dilberts_left_nut]

And this conkey is it only a gadget or is it possible to run it in a separate windows like ksysguard?

Yes.
See 'man conky' or look in /usr/share/doc/conky