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can't install synaptic

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Polaris96
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Re: can't install synaptic

#16 Post by Polaris96 »

noobnoobnoobNOOBnOOBITTYNOOBITTY N 0 0 B!!!

N00b this n00b is n00b debian n00b
this n00b is n00b the n00b savage n00b garden of creativity n00b
we can say "KNNNNNNNNNNNEEE", or even noob if we feel like it.

rules of behaviour belong in Ubuntu

I respect you and I respect your opinion, sir, but I vehemently disagree with it in this matter.
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milomak
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Re: can't install synaptic

#17 Post by milomak »

polaris - i assume synaptic is a front-end. does it run apt or aptitude?
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cnoyes
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Re: can't install synaptic

#18 Post by cnoyes »

I know you said Polaris, but I figured I'd go ahead and answer.

Aptitude is basically a snazzier alternative to dselect.

Synaptic is a front end for apt-get essentially.
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Polaris96
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Re: can't install synaptic

#19 Post by Polaris96 »

actually, that's not exactly correct. dselect is an old CLI package management tool that runs intrinsically on dpkg. As Kraft explains in, "The Debian System,"
dselect is a user interface to dpkg that supports interactive package selection and automatic acquisition of packages from various sources, such as CD-ROMS and FTP sites. dselect CAN also use APT to acquire and install packages and thus can fetch packages from any source the supports APT. The programme does not, however, make use of any of APTs other functionality
What this essentially means is that dselect does its own dependency resolution. It works, but APT is king of dependency resolution ... some people even think it's what MAKES Debian debian. APTs dependency handling is so good that it doesn't make sense not to use it. It would be like driving a smartcar when there's a gassed up Audi S4 in the garage.

The front end for APT is Aptitude.

Synaptic Is also a front end to APT, but it's much more abstracted and it allows the user to manipulate certain APT parameters without directly accessing the config files. The downside is that you don't ever need to know where these files are and how to properly edit them. For something as important as a package manager, this is required knowledge
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refracta
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Re: can't install synaptic

#20 Post by refracta »

actually, that's not exactly correct

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Re: can't install synaptic

#21 Post by cnoyes »

Polaris96 wrote:actually, that's not exactly correct. dselect is an old CLI package management tool that runs intrinsically on dpkg.
When referring to Aptitude, I was referring to the CLI tool, not a front end. And from a user experience Aptitude(the CLI tool) and dselect serve a similar purpose(to be more intuitive CLI package managers)



Polaris96 wrote:Synaptic Is also a front end to APT, but it's much more abstracted and it allows the user to manipulate certain APT parameters without directly accessing the config files. The downside is that you don't ever need to know where these files are and how to properly edit them. For something as important as a package manager, this is required knowledge
Synaptic is specifically an apt-get based gui.
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refracta
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Re: can't install synaptic

#22 Post by refracta »

I don't consider synaptic to be a frontend to apt-get at all or even a apt-get based gui.....maybe a apt based gui tool....maybe.....aptitude-gtk is a frontend for aptitude though...

Heck, wasn't synaptic created by connectiva and wasn't connectiva a rpm distro.......or was synaptic created by connectiva after apt4rpm was created...

sheesh my head hurts...

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cnoyes
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Re: can't install synaptic

#23 Post by cnoyes »

refracta wrote:I don't consider synaptic to be a frontend to apt-get at all or even a apt-get based gui.....maybe a apt based gui tool....maybe.....aptitude-gtk is a frontend for aptitude though...

Heck, wasn't synaptic created by connectiva and wasn't connectiva a rpm distro.......or was synaptic created by connectiva after apt4rpm was created...

sheesh my head hurts...
Since the search funciontality is done by Xapian, and installing upgrading, downgrading, removing, and reinstalling are all done by apt-get specifically, what feature of Synaptic comes from another APT tool?
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nadir
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Re: can't install synaptic

#24 Post by nadir »

am i missing something?
kaykav wrote:OK guys/girls,
did as you said. Everything is hunky-dory. Up and running.. Thanks again........
from that to aptitude is better than synaptic.
from that to why is aptitude better than apt-get (everyone knows apt-get is way better :mrgreen: )
from that to what is based on what, and since when.

you really have given me what i need to get in the mood again, but...well, ergh: beginners section. perhaps take it easy. ?
(thanks god the fishes are fished, so i may bigmouth again :-) )

greetings
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cnoyes
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Re: can't install synaptic

#25 Post by cnoyes »

nadir wrote:am i missing something?
kaykav wrote:OK guys/girls,
did as you said. Everything is hunky-dory. Up and running.. Thanks again........
from that to aptitude is better than synaptic.
from that to why is aptitude better than apt-get (everyone knows apt-get is way better :mrgreen: )
from that to what is based on what, and since when.

you really have given me what i need to get in the mood again, but...well, ergh: beginners section. perhaps take it easy. ?
(thanks god the fishes are fished, so i may bigmouth again :-) )

greetings
Yah, you might be right, this thread hasn't had a pulse for a bit.
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Re: can't install synaptic

#26 Post by Absent Minded »

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refracta
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Re: can't install synaptic

#27 Post by refracta »

cnoyes wrote: Since the search funciontality is done by Xapian, and installing upgrading, downgrading, removing, and reinstalling are all done by apt-get specifically, what feature of Synaptic comes from another APT tool?
Synaptic search functionality is not done by xapian.
To prove it you simply need to uninstall all xapian packages on your system and you can still search using synaptic.
Xapian is not apt anyway.

synaptic does not use apt-get either, to prove it you can do this:
mv /usr/bin/apt-get /usr/bin/apt-get-dead
now use synaptic to install something and you will see it works just fine

:wink:

Polaris96
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Re: can't install synaptic

#28 Post by Polaris96 »

Where's the forum war? So far, this thread is way tame.

So far as the semantics go, i think it's worth mentioning that dselect isn't APT based because we take the existence of APT for granted, by and large. It's pretty germaine to be advised that a utility is handling dependency resolution without APT involved (dselect only uses APT for Source tracking(sometimes), not dependency resolution). When you're running dselect, dselect, not apt, is your package manager.

The package management framework we're talking about is seminal to debian: dpkg handles the physical integration, Apt (usually) handles tracking, upgrade, and dependency resolutions (unless you're running dselect, which predates apt). Apt-get and related tools (apt-spy, etc.) make manipulating apt easy and powerful from the CLI.

Aptitude does the same on the command line, and, additionally, provides a very basic but functional menu interface to whit. Aptitude, when called with no arguments, provides a dselectLIKE menu but you also get the power of apt operating in all normal modes for the choices you make in the menu environment.

Apt-get and aptitude can be used trivially on the same system, these days. That wasn't always true, though, so you'll find most people who are heavy with apt-get don't use aptitude, and vice versa.

If we're going to split hares, EVERY package manager is a front end for dpkg. aptitude, apt-get, and synaptic are all front ends for apt. Its just a question of whether you're shopping at the warehouse, a retail outlet, or a website.
for as long as the world remains. for as long as time remains. so, too, will I remain. To serve. To help. And to make my contribution. Also, never forget our family at debianuserforums.org If we can't solve your problem, they probably can.

refracta
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Re: can't install synaptic

#29 Post by refracta »

Polaris96 wrote: Aptitude does the same on the command line, and, additionally, provides a very basic but functional menu interface to whit. Aptitude, when called with no arguments, provides a dselectLIKE menu ...
and aptitude-gtk provides a nice gui front-end to aptitude

Polaris96
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Re: can't install synaptic

#30 Post by Polaris96 »

@refracta:

Cool. didn't know there was a gtk+ aptitude. one question, though: Is it very much different than just running aptitude from a terminal emulator? BTW happy new year, all. If we can survive that gnasty 2012 apocalypse, this could be the (dum dada dum) Decade of Debian :)
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