This might not be the ideal thread to use an example, but there are some things which have been on my mind, so I might as well take the opportunity to try to express them.
@ john_deere:
@Ahtiga...did you read his posts? If he isn't a troll, then I don't know what is.
I did, and speaking as one who has experienced considerable frustration with numerous baffling problems (hardly any of which appear to be either reproducible or comprehensible) installing a working Debian Squeeze for more than a year (in contrast to a good experience installing Debian Lenny just a few years previously!), I felt that his posts probably reflect understandable frustration, not trolling.
I don't want to single anyone out for criticism, but to avoid misunderstanding: the thread was actually quite civil up to
and including this post from the OP:
Thanks for all your help guys, its much appreciated, really!
I've decided that Debian 6 is not for me. Nothing seems to just work and allot of things seem to be missing. I have spent my whole afternoon working with it and all I have been able to do is use a web browser on it. Things shouldn't have to be this difficult.
Merry Christmas to you all!
Tone can be hard to read over a text interface, but I read this as suggesting that the OP had simply had enough for one day.
IMO, the appropriate response would have been something like this:
Sorry to hear that and hope you'll reconsider. It's possible that if you tell as in more detail what you did when you were trying to install Debian, and what happened when you were using the installer, we could tell how to apply a simple fix which would solve your problem. And while many aspects of the Debian user experience differ from the Windows user experience, we can give you some quick pointers to get started doing things besides web-browsing--- just mention something you'd like to do.
But instead, unfortunately, the OP got this:
well that was quick... if you'd invest more time in learning, what is obviously to you, a new OS, you'd find debian an excellent choice.
did you really think that you weren't going to run into issues with an OS that you obviously haven't used before? anytime you make a big change you'll always have difficulties. i don't care if it's going from windows to mac os, there will ALWAYS be a learning curve.
Again, hard to read tone over a text interface, but I read that as hostile, and so, apparently, did the OP. And--- bear in mind that he had just spent all day with a frustrating experience--- he didn't take the apparent hostility at all well. And by the end of the thread, he was indeed expressing what might be called an "anti-Debian attitude", but I suspect that was only because he was so irate at the resentful comments which were being flung at him, not because he was a troll.
All this because he got tired and basically said he had decided that Debian was not for him. Did he really deserve that? (Never mind for a moment the fact that he eventually lost his temper.)
Again, I am NOT trying to single out any particular member for criticism, and I hope no-one flies off the handle, but I do feel that there is a specific point in this thread where things went bad, and I put it at the second post I just quoted, not the first.
Frustration does not excuse long, ranting and profane abuse toward other members.
True. But experiencing similar frustrations does tend to cause one to regard such ranting as indicating understandable human failings rather than maliciousness.
I think it is quite possible that if the OP had received effective assistance right away, no-one here would have received any bad impressions of his character. In the early part of the thread, I think his tone was actually quite reasonable. Why did it change? I think it changed because of some unneccessary comments by others which derailed what should have been a useful thread.
He needs to go back to kindergarten and learn some manners
I too would like to see less profanity and ranting on this board. But in many threads in which a newbie loses his temper, I think this could be avoided if regular DUF respondents tried harder to put themselves in the shoes of someone accustomed to Windows who is trying Debian for the first time, and is quickly frustrated by issues which could possibly be easily fixed if they can be coaxed into explaining in more detail what is happening. If respondents bear in mind that anyone dealing with installation issues and numerous baffling novelties may be suffering from information overload, which can lead to the possibly mistaken impression that the OP is unwilling to study man pages, perform Internet searches, &c, when the immediate problem is more likely that a newbie is overwhelmed, asking for help, and all too often, getting abuse instead of advice. (Accusations of trolling if untrue should be counted as abuse even when someone honestly suspects trolling, agreed?)
Also, I suspect that some regular respondents to "help me!" threads often get frustrated when they do not know a suitable solution, or when due to job pressures they lack time to properly explain the suggestions they have in mind, and instead of saying "I don't know" or "I'll try to return later today, when I have more time, to explain a possible workaround", they start abusing the inquirer. At least that is the impression I have, in some cases.
Another issue which I think often results in help threads going bad is the well known phenomenon whereby respondents assume that the OP
- has the same native language as they do
- lives in the same country under the same laws that they do
- has been weaned on the same cultural norms that they were
- has viewed the same films, TV programmes, or cartoons that they have
- has the same political and religious beliefs that they do
- studied at the same schools that they did
- has the same personality characteristics as they do
- considers funny the same things as they do
- uses the same financial/banking system as they do
- can travel as freely as they do
- enjoys use of the same complement of mammalian senses as they do (namely, I presume, all among the usual list)
- suffers from the same health conditions as they do (namely, I presume, nothing serious)
- encounters the same level of offical corruption in daily life as they do (namely, I presume, nothing of note)
- had the same formative experiences as they did
- learned (or could be reasonably expected to have learned) the same computing skills they did
- has essentially the same hardware they they do
- uses the internet in essentially the same way that they do
- in similar circumstances with similar available information can be reasonably expected to make the same judgments that they would
while simultanously failing to take account of the fact that
- computers are very complicated beasties, and what they themselves know is probably overwhelmed by what they do not know
Again, I don't deny that many newbies are also prone to namecalling and ranting when they get frustrated, but what I am trying to say is that persons experiencing information overload should probably be cut much more slack than some regulars here tend to do.
FOSS does seem to attract a certain personality type which is, may psychologists say, more prone than most to hypersensitity to perceived slights.
My two cents. And many regulars are of course consistently polite and helpful even to noobies.
