Debian users are ok with this mariadb thing?

[acecase]

It shocks me that Debian users aren't in an uproar about Debian 9 installing mariadb-server when we try to install mysql-server.

I'm not saying it isn't a good idea to move to mariadb. I don't even know the difference to be honest, but I do know that mariadb is no longer a soft-fork, and there absolutely are differences. That being the case, I would personally appreciate it if mysql-server package would either be MySQL or not exist. I'm just glad I discovered this on a development box and not a production server.

What's next?

sudo apt-get install chromium
...
...
Setting up Microsoft-Edge-x-y-z

[GarryRicketson]

I don't even know the difference to be honest, but I do know that mariadb is no longer a soft-fork, and there absolutely are differences.

Before starting a rant , one should at least research the subject carefully.

If anything, the uproar should be, or would be if Debian kept using Mysql:

Sun Microsystems bought MySQL for $1 billion. Soon after, Oracle acquired all of Sun Microsystems after getting approval from the European Commission in late 2009, which initially stopped the transaction due to concerns that such a merger would harm the database markets as MySQL was the main competitor of Oracle’s database product.
MariaDB (new logo)Out of distrust in Oracle stewardship of MySQL, the original developers of MySQL forked it and created MariaDB in 2009. As time passed, MariaDB replaced MySQL in many places and everybody reading this article should consider it too.

from: https://seravo.fi/2015/10-reasons-to-mi ... sing-mysql
1) MariaDB development is more open and vibrant
Unlike many other open source projects Oracle inherited from the Sun acquisition, Oracle does indeed still develop MySQL and to our knowledge they have even hired new competent developers after most of the original developers resigned. The next major release MySQL 5.7 will have significant improvement over MySQL 5.6. However, the commit log of 5.7 shows that all contributors are @oracle.com. Most commit messages reference issue numbers that are only in an internal tracker at Oracle and thus not open for public discussion. There are no new commits in the latest 3 months because Oracle seems to update the public code repository only in big batches post-release. This does not strike as a development effort that would benefit from the public feedback loop and the Linus law of “given enough eyes all bugs are shallow”.----
snip----
7) Oracle stewardship is uncertain
Many people have expressed distrust in Oracle’s true motivations and interest in keeping MySQL alive. As explained in point 1, Oracle wasn’t initially allowed to acquire Sun Microsystems, which owned MySQL, due to the EU competition legislation. MySQL was the biggest competitor to Oracle’s original database. The European Commission however approved the deal after Oracle published an official promise to keep MySQL alive and competitive. That document included an expiry date, December 14th 2014, which has now passed. One can only guess what the Oracle upper management has in mind for the future of MySQL.

In any event, you are free to Not use MariaDB, and install Mysql, but again , I suggest doing some real research , and understand the differences, so you are sure of which one you really want to use.

[acecase]

I don't disagree, or agree, that mariadb should be the goto/default/supported package. My issue is that I type sudo apt-get install mysql-server, and without batting an eye, it installs mariadb-server.

If I had type sudo apt-get install mysql-server and gotten "unable to locate package mysql-server" or even "hey stupid, don't use that. You should use mariadb," I wouldn't have an issue with it.

Would everyone be ok if apt-get install python got you perl?

[GarryRicketson]

Oh, Ok, then I need to apologize, I mis-understood, you do have a point.
--will continue--in a moment---
As Debian users, we don't have that much say in what the Debian developers,
packagers , etc do nor know why.
There was quite a big uproar when they decided to start using systemd, and
that did not change anything, most Debian users just accepted it.

Would everyone be ok if apt-get install python got you perl?

Or in reverse ?, no I certainly would not like it if I wanted to install "perl" and I got python, I do not use python,....
If you think the name of the package should be changed, that is something you should take up directly with the Debian devs, and packagers.
https://www.debian.org/contact

[bw123]

I don't disagree, or agree, that mariadb should be the goto/default/supported package. My issue is that I type sudo apt-get install mysql-server, and without batting an eye, it installs mariadb-server.

If I had type sudo apt-get install mysql-server and gotten "unable to locate package mysql-server" or even "hey stupid, don't use that. You should use mariadb," I wouldn't have an issue with it.

Would everyone be ok if apt-get install python got you perl?

How else would you suggest that a transition could be made from one implementation to another? If an app depends only on one implementation, then transitions can't be easily done. By using dummy or transitional pkgs like default-mysql-server the distribution is more easily modified when there is a need.

If mysql-server package was uninstallable wouldn't that break some other packages?

...
I'm just glad I discovered this on a development box and not a production server.

It's always good to know things as early as possible. reading release notes and documentation is one way to stay informed. https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ ... aces-mysql

[GarryRicketson]

Yes, it would ,... there is a pretty good , detailed explanation here:
https://mariadb.com/kb/en/library/movin ... -debian-9/

So, the main repository difference in Debian 9 "Stretch" is that when you install the mysql-server package on Stretch you will get MariaDB 10.1 instead of MySQL, like you would with previous versions of Debian. Note that mysql-server is just an empty transitional meta-package and users are encouraged to install MariaDB using the actual package mariadb-server.

I had never given this much thought myself, so probably I should do more research, and searches , before even trying to answer as well.
Generally I don't pay much attention to the names of all the dependencies that get installed, for example, if I 'apt install perl' , and there happened to be some python packages as well, it would not bother me, as long as all my perl scripts worked as expected,.... but any way,
I also noticed in some results, a warning to not deleted any "Mysql" directories
in your system, even though Mariadb is becoming the default. ...
https://wiki.debian.org/MySql

https://wiki.debian.org/MySql

Here is some additional resources:
https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/MySQL/MariaDB
==================================
(may add more later, depending)

[stevepusser]

Debian needs dummy packages to transition the users from one fork to another. An example was the transitions from the "real ffmpeg" to libav, then back to the "real ffmpeg" a couple of Debian release later. Another example is using OpenJDK instead of Oracle's Java. There are many examples of the same thing in the repos, and also in Ubuntu.

I think that Debian assumes their users will actually do a little research if a dummy package installs a fork instead of what they want...If you don't like the status quo, you're always free to join Debian and agitate for a change, or start your own derivative that works the way you like it and let the users decide.

[acecase]

How else would you suggest that a transition could be made from one implementation to another? If an app depends only on one implementation, then transitions can't be easily done. By using dummy or transitional pkgs like default-mysql-server the distribution is more easily modified when there is a need.

If mysql-server package was uninstallable wouldn't that break some other packages?

Any package that with a mysql dependency, that can be satisfied by mariadb, could be modified so that mariadb is the new dependency.
Any package with a mysql dependency, that mariadb cannot satisfy, is already broken.

It seems easier to parse the dependencies and change them than to test all the software that depends on mysql to insure that mariadb is truly a drop-in replacement.

To be clear, my issue isn't that they are replacing mysql with mariadb. Again, I don't know enough about mariadb to say that is good/bad/indifferent. I don't like that I "installed mysql-server" and didn't know until my software did a version check and threw an error that a totally different package was installed. It's easy enough for my little app to change that version check and move on, but then can I rely on mariadb to function identically to the version of mysql that I developed on? Can I have at least the same confidence that I would from one version of mysql to the next?

To be fair, everything seems to be working fine. The tables all got created, the queries are all working, all unit testing has passed, and that version check is the only problem that I've seen. Luckily, I'm working on my own time today, and noone is expecting this to be finished, so I'm good, even if I have to punt and install mysql.

Also, to be fair, I have no idea what it's like to manage a distribution, so I could be asking for more than I realize. However, this is the first time in all my years (many of them) that I have run in to a major package like this being silently replaced, and it just seems like bad form from my perspective.

Certainly not something that I am prepared to argue, so I'll shut up at this point. I guess I just need to pay more attention when apt tells me what is about to be installed, and not trust that I'm getting what I've typed.

[arzgi]

Would everyone be ok if apt-get install python got you perl?

This has happened in Debian, if you install packet a, Debian installs packet b, which provides packet a funtionality, but packet a is no longer free/available, etc..

https://mariadb.com/kb/en/library/maria ... atibility/

[debiman]

Any package with a mysql dependency, that mariadb cannot satisfy, is already broken.

has this actually happened to you or someone?
show us something.

[Bloom]

Mariadb is a plug-in replacement for mysql made by the developer of mysql, so what are we talking about?
When I upgraded my Debian Stable databaseserver, it replaced mysql by mariadb and it worked flawlessly.

[stevepusser]

It shocks me that Debian users aren't in an uproar about Debian 9 installing mariadb-server when we try to install mysql-server.
....