Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Debian

Kernels & Hardware, configuring network, installing services

Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Debian

Postby morosoft » 2020-05-09 12:45

After installing Debian 10 Buster, the system shows unstable:
Misplaced material and horizontal pixeled lines, sometimes flickering, inside firefox window. This happens in complex websites with pictures, animations, banners. The same for window elements in some Gtk GUIs (even as simple as synaptic). All of this usually appears when scrolling up and down in windows. Finally, after a few minutes, the system hangs (freezes).

After hard days of reading and learning on the web, my attempts have been:
    1) debian buster -> no video
    2) debian buster + upgrade to kernel 5.4.0 (via buster-backports) + firmware-linux-nonfree (buster-backports package, which includes the latest firmware-amd-graphics package with the ampgpu driver) -> video but with the mentioned inestabilities
    3) debian testing + firmware-linux-nonfree package -> same result
In order to comparate with another debian-based systems, I have tried:
    4) ubuntu 20.04 (5.4.0 kernel) with non-free software option -> same result
    5) linux mint 19.3 (5.0.0 kernel) with non-free software option -> working well, although vertical scrolling is not as smooth as, for example, in windows 10 SO.

When checking related software (X server, mesa, etc), apparently Mint and Debian Buster uses similar versions.
Bios configuration must be right because Mint works with the default settings.

Obviously my goal is to make it work on Debian. It seems to be posible for APUs with Vega 8 graphics (AMD Ryzen 3500U, 2200G and others):
https://wiki.debian.org/AMDGPUDriverOnStretchAndBuster2
https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/3200g-3400g-und-debian-10.1914647/

Technical details:
APU: CPU AMD Ryzen 3400G + GPU Radeon Rx Vega 11
MO: B450-I-AORUS-PRO
SO: Debian 10, upgraded/updated to backports packages when possible.
(note: mesa v19.0 -the version used by Mint-, is not yet backported to Debian 10. However, this shound not be the problem, while v19.0 do not work on debian testing release either.)
morosoft
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 2020-05-09 12:12

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-05-09 13:17

I don't think I can really help much, but there are some comments you have made that
I am not sure what you mean, or how to interpret them, also particularly this:
3) debian testing + firmware-linux-nonfree package -> same result

Please show us your /etc/apt/sources.list file, so we can see what you have in it. Use code boxes, please.
apparently Mint and Debian Buster uses similar versions.
Bios configuration must be right because Mint works with the default settings.

But, in spite of "similar", and to some extent Linux Mint is based on Debian, they
are NOT the same, by a long shot, so yes it is very much possible something works
on Linux mint, but not Debian, Debian is more reliable though, Debian uses software/firmware , etc. that has been tested and used for sometime, and only software that is determined stable goes into the repos, where as Linux Mint ofteh uses the newest, shiniest versions, often these versions have not been thoroughly tested and have bugs that show up later,..personally, and I learned from experience, stay away from Linux Mint, it is not reliable, ..like Debian is.
The other comment:
5) linux mint 19.3 (5.0.0 kernel) with non-free software option -> working well, although vertical scrolling is not as smooth as, for example, in windows 10 SO.

Again, Debian is not Linux Mint, nor windows 10, both might seem better to you, but also Linux, is not windows 10,...if you feel that Windows 10, and Linux mint are better, that is fine, just use them... Comparing Debian to those is pointless, because Debian is not either one, and will not perform the same, trying to make Debian like windows 10 and linux mint, is pointless, a waste of time and beyond the scope of this forum.
Obviously my goal is to make it work on Debian. It seems to be posible for APUs with Vega 8 graphics (AMD Ryzen 3500U, 2200G and others):

I am sure it is possible, and this is a admirable goal, way beyond my skills (very limited), however, it might be to your advantage to use the mail lists, and work directly with other developers that also have the same goal, ....
It might be of interest, and worth the trouble to read:
https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
Pay particular attention to:
Don't suffer from Shiny New Stuff Syndrome

The reason that Debian Stable is so reliable is because software is extensively tested and bug-fixed before being included. This means that the most recent version of software is often not available in the Stable repositories. But it doesn't mean that the software is too old to be useful!

Before attempting to install the newest version of some software from somewhere other than the Debian Stable repositories, here are some things to keep in mind:

Debian backports security fixes and new features, judging software by comparing the version number of the Debian package to the upstream version number does not take this into account.
The latest version of the software you're trying to use might also have new bugs.

Installing software from places other than official Debian repositories are not covered by Debian' Security team.

With that said, welcome to the forum, we do have a member here, "stevepusser", he also does a lot of back port work, he might even have something that will work for you, I don't know, you can search on that, or just wait, he is likely to respond hereif he knows something is available...good luck and have a good day
Please Read What we expect you have already Done
Search Engines know a lot, and
"If God had wanted computers to work all the time, He wouldn't have invented RESET buttons"
and
Just say NO to help vampires!
cuckooflew
 
Posts: 683
Joined: 2018-05-10 19:34
Location: Some where out west

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-05-09 13:28

Perhaps try installing the amd64-microcode .deb from sid? Not sure if there have actually been any fixes for the 3400G yet but the package was updated back in December.

Note that the buster-backports firmware-amd-graphics package is from 2020-07-17, which is only 10 days after your CPU was released, so there may be newer firmware available upstream. Ubuntu 20.04 already includes that though so it probably won't fix your problem.

And don't bother with AMDGPU-PRO, the open source driver works better for gaming and AMD only recommend the proprietary version for their PRO cards (hence the name).

The Raven Ridge series does seem to be somewhat buggy under Linux: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 400g&num=1
Black Lives Matter

Debian buster-backports ISO image: for new hardware support
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 12785
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby stevepusser » 2020-05-10 04:00

Does a Live session of this work? https://archive.org/details/mx19x64updated

It has much newer firmware than is available in Sid, since I ported it over from Ubuntu 20.04.

Firmware != drivers, though.
MX Linux packager and developer
User avatar
stevepusser
 
Posts: 12132
Joined: 2009-10-06 05:53

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby morosoft » 2020-05-10 17:56

Unfortunately none of the suggestions have worked.
amd64-microcode.deb (from sid) does not improve the result.
In the other hand, MX Linux shows pixelated windows.
As I said above, Ubuntu 20.04 do not work, so I think none of its packages will fix the problem.

Taking a look at the packages and hardware details, we have:
APU Hardware: Ryzen 5 3400G, released on 2019/7/7
Firmware related to the CPU: amd64-microcode (debian sid), released on 2019/12/18
Firmware related to de GPU including the amdgpu driver:
    firmware-amd-graphics (debian sid), released on 2019/7/17
    linux-firmware 1.187 (ubuntu 20.04)
    linux-firmware 1.187.9 (mint 19.3) <- the only attempt that works
.For all this, I am afraid that at this moment there may not be a solution to the problem in Debian
morosoft
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 2020-05-09 12:12

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby shep » 2020-05-10 18:18

I do not have your hardware but I did try the Official AMD drivers in Centos 8.1, they worked. You're likely on new ground and this may be worth trying.

https://wiki.debian.org/AMDGPUDriverOnStretchAndBuster2
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-amdgpu-unified-linux-20-10
shep
 
Posts: 402
Joined: 2011-03-15 15:22

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-05-10 18:31

shep wrote:I did try the Official AMD drivers

AMD themselves don't recommend the AMDGPU-PRO drivers for consumer-grade graphics cards:
AMD wrote:The amdgpu-pro Graphics stack is recommended for use with Radeon Pro graphics products. Use of amdgpu is recommended for all other products.

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/relea ... stallation

@OP: this member over at the MX Linux forums has a 3400G and they say it works fine with amdgpu & kernels 5.4 & 5.6: https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php ... 10#p574510

Which desktop environment are you running? If it's GNOME on Wayland then perhaps try using the X-based desktop instead.
Black Lives Matter

Debian buster-backports ISO image: for new hardware support
User avatar
Head_on_a_Stick
 
Posts: 12785
Joined: 2014-06-01 17:46
Location: /dev/chair

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby morosoft » 2020-05-10 21:11

I don't understand why in https://wiki.debian.org/AMDGPUDriverOnStretchAndBuster2 it is said
However it is possible to make that system boot with the AMDGPU driver provided by AMD on a linux kernel 4.19 (which is currently backported on Stretch and also the linux kernel version of Buster).

I think the amdgpu driver is part of the firmware-amd-graphics non-free package or firmware-linux-nonfree metapackage. Anyway, all the hardware tested in that post is the Raven Ridge AMD APU. It's amazing that it works, because as @Head_on_a_Stick remembers, using amdgpupro isn't recommended for these GPUs.
Out of curiosity, I have taken a look to the mentioned package in
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-amdgpu-unified-linux-20-10
and it contains new hwe versions of several packages: xserver-xorg-amdgpu-video, mesa, openGL, etc. It may be interesting to try it.
Which desktop environment are you running? If it's GNOME on Wayland then perhaps try using the X-based desktop instead.

I have tried all possible: xfce, gnome, mate and Xde (they all use the X server, I think).
morosoft
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 2020-05-09 12:12

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby stevepusser » 2020-05-11 02:56

For the second time, please stop conflating firmware with drivers! God kills a kitten every time you do that.
MX Linux packager and developer
User avatar
stevepusser
 
Posts: 12132
Joined: 2009-10-06 05:53

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby shep » 2020-05-11 12:30

There has been a firmware update for 4.19.
https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=158919846514676&w=2
Likely, it is in the AMD package and hopefully will either show up in Debian 10 or be backported
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/amdgpu
shep
 
Posts: 402
Joined: 2011-03-15 15:22

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby morosoft » 2020-05-11 17:48

For the second time, please stop conflating firmware with drivers! God kills a kitten every time you do that.

Oh! Shame on me. I think I have killed more cats in recent years than a pandemic...
So, if I understand correctly: linux kernel contains the CPU firmware and firmware-amd-graphics package contains the GPU firmware. That's right? In that case, what is the graphics "card" driver? A generic one?

Well, continuing with the tests, I have tried to install the Official AMD drivers, but the install script can't resolve dependencies:

Code: Select all
WARNING: This package was intended to be installed on Ubuntu 18.04 and may not work as expected on Debian GNU/Linux 10.
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 amdgpu-lib32 : Depends: libdrm2-amdgpu:i386 (= 1:2.4.100-1048554)
                Depends: libdrm-amdgpu-amdgpu1:i386 (= 1:2.4.100-1048554)
                Depends: libllvm9.0-amdgpu:i386 (= 1:9.0-1048554)
                Depends: libxatracker2-amdgpu:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
                Depends: libgbm1-amdgpu:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
                Depends: libegl1-amdgpu-mesa:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
                Depends: libegl1-amdgpu-mesa-drivers:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
                Depends: libgles1-amdgpu-mesa:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
                Depends: libgles2-amdgpu-mesa:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
                Depends: libglapi-amdgpu-mesa:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
                Depends: libgl1-amdgpu-mesa-glx:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
                Depends: libgl1-amdgpu-mesa-dri:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
                Depends: libosmesa6-amdgpu:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
                Depends: mesa-amdgpu-va-drivers:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
                Depends: mesa-amdgpu-vdpau-drivers:i386 (= 1:19.3.4-1048554)
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

and I don't know how to install them (I can't find them in the debian packages).

By last,
There has been a firmware update for 4.19

How to know when the update will be included in buster or buster-backports?
morosoft
 
Posts: 4
Joined: 2020-05-09 12:12

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby RU55EL » 2020-05-11 18:37

Firmware is the software that runs on the device. A driver is the software that tells your operating system how to communicate with the device.
User avatar
RU55EL
 
Posts: 499
Joined: 2014-04-07 03:42
Location: /home/russel

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby santosha » 2020-05-11 20:09

I can confirm this problem exists. I have the exact same CPU on a Asus-A320M-K with up to date BIOS and was not successfull to get it to work with anything from the Debian reps.

I tried with a current Arch installation next. Also no success, only after I compiled the lib32-mesa driver fresh from git it did finally work.

Here are the software versions with which I have the graphics running fine in Arch(!):

amd-ucode 20200421.78c0348-1
xf86-video-amdgpu 19.1.0-1
lib32-mesa 20.0.6-2
lib32-mesa-vdpau 20.0.6-2
mesa 20.0.6-2
linux 5.6.11.arch1-1
linux-firmware 20200421.78c0348-1
xorg-server 1.20.8-2
xorg-server-common 1.20.8-2
xorg-server-devel 1.20.8-2
xorg-server-xwayland 1.20.8-2

May the AMD force be with you :wink:

P.S. By the way, there is no working HDMI out in the amdgpu at this moment. AMD knows and is hopefully working on it. See bug:

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/ ... ote_285674
santosha
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 2020-05-11 19:47

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby stevepusser » 2020-05-12 03:31

shep wrote:There has been a firmware update for 4.19.
https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=158919846514676&w=2
Likely, it is in the AMD package and hopefully will either show up in Debian 10 or be backported
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/amdgpu


Firmware upstream in Sid hasn't been updated since last July, so I'm not holding my breath.
MX Linux packager and developer
User avatar
stevepusser
 
Posts: 12132
Joined: 2009-10-06 05:53

Re: Graphical inestabilities on AMD APU Ryzen 3400G with Deb

Postby stevepusser » 2020-05-12 03:39

Free software drivers such as amdgpu are in two parts: one is in the kernel and the other in the xorg package, such as xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu. And firmware in in the firmware package.

It looks like Debian support is buggy for that particular hardware at the moment--you may try manually updating the firmware from the kernel git tree to see if that helps, but it appears you may also need a bleeding edge kernel and Mesa.
MX Linux packager and developer
User avatar
stevepusser
 
Posts: 12132
Joined: 2009-10-06 05:53


Return to System configuration

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests

fashionable