Help with sources.list

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Help with sources.list

Postby efdevse » 2020-06-22 19:02

Hi all…

I'd like to add “testing” to my sources.list. After reading other posts here, and searching around the new - looks like there are different recommendtions and methods. So, I thought it would be best to ask here first.

I want to have “buster” as default, with “buster-backports” (as now) + adding testing to pick a few from. I'm about the replace MATE with Xfce, and want that one from testing.

Here's what I have so far (not implemnted):

Code: Select all
# /etc/apt/sources.list

#
# Buster
#

deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free

# sec-updates (buster)
deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib
deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib

# buster-updates
deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main contrib non-free

# backports
deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ buster-backports main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ buster-backports main contrib non-free


#
# Testing
#

deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free

# sec-updates (testing)
# https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2019/07/msg00004.html
deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing-security main contrib
deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security testing-security main contrib

# testing-updates
deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ testing-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ testing-updates main contrib non-free
Code: Select all
# /etc/apt/apt.conf

APT::Default-Release "stable";
Code: Select all
# /etc/apt/preferences
#
# need pinning?
#

Package: *
Pin: release a=stable
Pin-Priority: 700

Package: *
Pin: release a=stable-backports
Pin-Priority: 650

Package: *
Pin: release a=testing
Pin-Priority: 600


- - -

Does it look ok?
Some guides I've read doesn't use the pinning. Perhaps not needed?
And some doesn't use the “testing-updates”.
Maybe I should add an xtra pinning for the Xfce packages?

And… if backports are from testing - do I really need the backports when adding testing to the mix? What's best practice?

I'd appreciate any help…

Best,
· Eric
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2020-06-22 19:47

No.
Don't mix stable and testing.
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby kedaha » 2020-06-22 19:59

Hi
just to expand a little, to quote from Osamu Aoki's fine Debian Reference at Basic Precautions:
Do not include testing or unstable in "/etc/apt/sources.list".
Do not create "/etc/apt/preferences".

See also Newer_Software_For_Debian_Stable
If unsure about anything, just ask here.
Cheers
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby efdevse » 2020-06-22 20:11

dilberts_left_nut wrote:No.
Don't mix stable and testing.

kedaha wrote:Hi
just to expand a little, to quote from Osamu Aoki's fine Debian Reference at Basic Precautions:
Do not include testing or unstable in "/etc/apt/sources.list".
Do not create "/etc/apt/preferences".

See also Newer_Software_For_Debian_Stable
If unsure about anything, just ask here.
Cheers


Thanks! for your quick replies… +1
So, if I want to use “testing” (for anything), it's better to do an all-testing upgrade (ie upgrade to bullseye)?
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby golinux » 2020-06-22 20:36

Use backports to get packages from bullseye.
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby kedaha » 2020-06-22 20:40

efdevse wrote:So, if I want to use “testing” (for anything), it's better to do an all-testing upgrade (ie upgrade to bullseye)?

Well, again to quote the Manual:
The use of testing or unstable is a lot of fun but comes with some risks.

Read on at life_with_eternal_upgrades.
Bear in mind that:
Understand that the job of Debian is, and always has been, to produce Stable. The other releases are means to that end.

From DebianStability
Your choice.
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby RU55EL » 2020-06-22 21:40

efdevse,

I suggest you read Don't Break Debian

Then the Debian sources.list wiki.

Then, read about Debian backports.

Don't skim, read the whole thing, especially about sources.list.
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-06-22 23:04

I will add a little bit more:
So, if I want to use “testing” (for anything), it's better to do an all-testing upgrade (ie upgrade to bullseye)?

Just don't mix repositories, that has all ready been clearly stated in previous posts, so use some logic, If you want to use Debian testing, then yes, you must do a full upgrade, the question now, is that really what you want to use, and I am not going to tell you which distribution is best for you, you need to decide that for your self.
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/choosing.en.html#s3.1
3.1. Which Debian distribution (stable/testing/unstable) is better for me?
-----snip---- If you are a new user installing to a desktop machine, start with stable. Some of the software is quite old, but it's the least buggy environment to work in. You can easily switch to the more modern unstable (or testing) once you are a little more confident. ---snip--
The following questions (hopefully) provide more detail on these choices. After reading this whole FAQ, if you still could not make a decision, stick with the stable distribution.

So more reading for you, I know, it seems like to much reading, but really the more you understand about Debian , the less chance there will be of you borking your system, etc,
Do not use the sources.list file as is, the one you show. Period.
My thoughts are you should stay with stable for a while, read everything suggested and perhaps more, that we have not though of yet...get more familiar with Debian, before upgrading to testing.
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby efdevse » 2020-06-22 23:37

golinux wrote:Use backports to get packages from bullseye.

Yes, that's what I'm doing now, but Xfce isn't in backports »»».

kedaha wrote:Well, again to quote the Manual:
The use of testing or unstable is a lot of fun but comes with some risks.

Read on at life_with_eternal_upgrades.

Bear in mind that:
Understand that the job of Debian is, and always has been, to produce Stable. The other releases are means to that end.

From DebianStability
Your choice.

Well, I am happy with stable+backports. I've got only 1 porgram outside that (Firefox, latest) …and that was the idea, to stay on stable, but add testing – to pick a few from there (ie Xfce). That as in keeping the system stable, but with a newer desktop (and to match the versions on the server better).

Or when can Xfce 4.14 (Aug, 2019) be expected to show up in Buster, &/or in backports? Then I could make a decision from that if it's not too far away. If there's no timeline, then I guess I'll have to go with Bullseye.
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby arid » 2020-06-23 00:15

Install sid and all your hopes, dreams and needs will be satisfied.

Each day may bring something new and exciting as you fly above those other poor souls locked into ancient history.

The ultimate exhilaration is to add experimental into the sources on synaptic and suck up those latest kernels as if from Linus himself.

Do it and you will never have to descend into this forum of Debian lost souls.

Do it now and you will never have to look back.
There's no drama in my sid......
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby efdevse » 2020-06-23 00:29

RU55EL wrote:efdevse,

I suggest you read Don't Break Debian

Then the Debian sources.list wiki.

Then, read about Debian backports.

Don't skim, read the whole thing, especially about sources.list.

Thanks! for the reading. The 2 first, I've read few times, no skimming. The last one… I haven't seen that one, but I I've read the wiki post instead.


cuckooflew wrote:Just don't mix repositories, that has all ready been clearly stated in previous posts, so use some logic, If you want to use Debian testing, then yes, you must do a full upgrade, the question now, is that really what you want to use …

Both yes and no, but without options… Yes.


cuckooflew wrote:
If you are a new user installing to a desktop machine, …

So more reading for you, I know, it seems like to much reading, but really the more you understand about Debian , the less chance there will be of you borking your system, etc,

Thanks! for the reading.

> “If you are a new user installing to a desktop machine, … ”
No, I'm not new, but maybe not so used to desktop …on Debian. When I find “converts”, and help them make the switch – I usually install a basic Debian istallation, and they can go from there. All defaults. Not so much tweaking. (That's for their learning curve. ^_^)

My main/daily computer is another dist (rolling) - but I wanted to setup a dev-station now, to match a server. That's why I want to keep “stable”, to keep/match the versions. *cross-fingers*
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-06-23 04:29

Your welcome
Thanks! for the reading.

You might be ok with Debian testing, I can say I have been running it for over a year now, but it is on a VM , in any event I have not had any problems what so ever, and every time I run updates, / upgrades , they go smoothly.
If you find what you need in the Debian backports, that might be the best solution,...
Please Read What we expect you have already Done
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2020-06-23 06:26

efdevse wrote:Or when can Xfce 4.14 (Aug, 2019) be expected to show up in Buster,
Never. It's called stable because it doesn't change.
&/or in backports
No-one sane would bother backporting an entire DE for an older stable. Steve, however, :) has, for MX, as stated above.

Testing can be fairly reliably useful, most of the time, although things tend to get interesting around the freeze and post-release, and of course, package transitions can happen at any time.
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby efdevse » 2020-06-23 13:42

cuckooflew wrote:Your welcome
Thanks! for the reading.

You might be ok with Debian testing, I can say I have been running it for over a year now, but it is on a VM , in any event I have not had any problems what so ever, and every time I run updates, / upgrades , they go smoothly.
If you find what you need in the Debian backports, that might be the best solution,...

This is on a separate machine now, to get it installed on real metal. But, I might go on and move it to a VM later, or along with my main system to dual-boot. The other part of this is I'm going to install the same (minus the dev tools) on my nephews computers. In that way I can always be prepared from home here when I manage their systems remotley. I expect that to be as minimal as possible - like upgrading, installing a few programs, etc. They're 10 and 12, and I wanted them to have a computer for their (school) home work. Any potential “hickups” I'd meet before I do anything to their machines.
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Re: Help with sources.list

Postby efdevse » 2020-06-23 14:33

dilberts_left_nut wrote:Testing can be fairly reliably useful, most of the time, although things tend to get interesting around the freeze and post-release, and of course, package transitions can happen at any time.

Yes, that of course. But, if I go on and upgrade to testing now, using “bullseye” (as wording) instead of “testing” in the sources.list (wiki said something about that)… 1) Comment out the backports lines, until Bullseye is out. 2) My intensios are to keep going on with Bullseye when it's released. Wouldn't that be seamless? I guess during the freeze points, and the other things - it'll be a period of (less|no) updates to recieve?
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