Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

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Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby Hallvor » 2020-11-02 09:14

I am trying to install the package sysvinit-core:

Code: Select all
# apt install sysvinit-core


Result:

Apt wants to uninstall the KDE Plasma desktop.

What am I doing wrong?
Lenovo ThinkPad T440S, Intel Core i7-4600U CPU @ 2.10GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, Debian Buster (KDE)
Lenovo ThinkPad X240, Intel Core i5-4300U CPU @ 2.90GHz, 8 GB RAM, 120 GB SSD, Debian Buster (KDE)
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Re: Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby Deb-fan » 2020-11-02 14:20

Head_on or another nixer better versed in this subject matter may pop-up and shed some light, one obvious thing you're not doing is using search engines, ie: I googled "kde plasma depends on systemd" and up popped a bunch of useful looking info. Not going to say it's a hard depend and/or that there aren't ways around using plasma sans systemd but that's up to the person wanting to do so to figure out. This is one element people like myself are alluding to when describing refusing systemd being like swimming against the current or trying to swim upstream.

Folks opting to cling onto former init's have their work cut out for them or have to depend on other people and projects which are making the effort to go against what's being/been done upstream. Either way the information on it is online. Anyway good luck. :)

Ps, afterthoughts ... might want to do this type of project in a virtual machine or on a testing install so someone doesn't wind up badly borking up an operating system they actually care about. At least common sense dictates someone should make a backup before undertaking such switching out and converting over to alternative init's adventures, 2 cents ...
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Re: Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby Hallvor » 2020-11-02 14:32

How dare you? :lol: Of course I searched. But I searched for sysvinit and kde buster in duckduckgo, but didn't find anything useful.

If KDE depends on systemd, that explains a thing or two.
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Re: Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby anticapitalista » 2020-11-02 14:36

What if you install elogind first?
Last edited by anticapitalista on 2020-11-02 14:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby Deb-fan » 2020-11-02 14:41

Sincerely no offense meant but then you should perhaps start by brushing up on your search-fu. Lol ... one of the many tech-oriented books I checked out from the public library back when people wanting information actually went to such places to get it, were books titled along the lines of "search engines for dummies" and similar. :D

In other dorkish news, noted that many of the same google advanced search modifiers seemed to work the same on Duckduck as they do on google search itself. Making me wonder if Duckduck is either using Google search somehow backend or is actually affiliated or even owned by Google Inc behind the scenes. Yes .. things like that are nothing new. Google does buy out or make other deals with competitors etc. Only saying people using alternatives may be thinking HA, I showed you google ! Errr and be using google or having their data directly channeled right to google anyway. :D

Those advanced search modifiers are EXTREMELY useful and cool too.
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Re: Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby Hallvor » 2020-11-02 15:55

anticapitalista wrote:What if you install elogind first?


It looks like it wants to remove (almost) the same stuff. 666 MB of data in all.
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Re: Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby Bulkley » 2020-11-02 16:11

Hallvor wrote:I am trying to install the package sysvinit-core:
. . .
What am I doing wrong?


Probably nothing wrong as such. Most likely you are missing something. Try installing elogind as anticapitalista suggested. MX Linux uses sysvinit and can install KDE so you know it works.

Some time ago I downloaded debian-buster-sysvinit.iso which somebody made up. (HOAS maybe?) Maybe you could find a copy.

Check this thread, How-To: Debian Buster with SysVinit as PID 1

It might be a matter of sequence. Maybe you need SysVinit as PID 1 working before you install KDE Plasma. I would definitely experiment with virtual machines before touching your daily driver. I would also make sure to back up anything important.

Keep us posted with your progress.
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Re: Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby pcalvert » 2020-11-02 17:20

I experimented with SysVinit on Buster several months ago:

How-To: Debian Buster with SysVinit as PID 1

Here's the last paragraph from the first post in that thread:
pcalvert wrote:By the way, I also performed test installations of GNOME, KDE, LXDE, LXQT, and MATE. Due to systemd dependencies, none of those desktop environments could be installed. However, I may have discovered a workaround that allows some (maybe even all) of them to be installed. More on that later.


Based on the behavior I saw, I don't think it's possible to do what you're trying to do on a pure Debian system. That may change in the future, though.

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Re: Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby stevepusser » 2020-11-03 11:34

MX uses a patched version of Buster's systemd that allows compatibility with everything else...

http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/pool/main/s/systemd/
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Re: Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby Hallvor » 2020-11-04 18:28

stevepusser wrote:MX uses a patched version of Buster's systemd that allows compatibility with everything else...

http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/pool/main/s/systemd/


Thanks for the tip! I am probably just thick here, but does this mean that systemd is still running..?
Lenovo ThinkPad T440S, Intel Core i7-4600U CPU @ 2.10GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, Debian Buster (KDE)
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Re: Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby stevepusser » 2020-11-04 19:05

Hallvor wrote:
stevepusser wrote:MX uses a patched version of Buster's systemd that allows compatibility with everything else...

http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/pool/main/s/systemd/


Thanks for the tip! I am probably just thick here, but does this mean that systemd is still running..?


No. MX boots with sysvinit by default, but can boot with systemd from an option in the GRUB menu, and that can be set as default in MX Boot Options. https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/mx- ... -installed
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Re: Sysvinit-core and KDE Plasma (Buster)

Postby Hallvor » 2020-11-04 19:19

Nice.
Lenovo ThinkPad T440S, Intel Core i7-4600U CPU @ 2.10GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, Debian Buster (KDE)
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