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Gnome shell high CPU usage with Wayland

Graphical Environments, Managers, Multimedia & Desktop questions.
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m798
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Re: Gnome shell high CPU usage with Wayland

#16 Post by m798 »

If you want, maybe consider still showing us this
This is what I get :
m798 wrote:

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# dmesg | grep firmware
[    6.311755] r8169 0000:06:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware rtl_nic/rtl8168h-2.fw
[    6.655624] i915 0000:00:02.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin
[    6.656237] [drm] Finished loading DMC firmware i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin (v1.4)
Does this seem right?
If they do have some kind of support forum, that might be a better option, I suppose that might depend on how long you have been using the Openmediavault, if it is a fresh install, re-installing is no big deal, if it has been your main OS for sometime, be sure to make a copy / backup of everything you want/need to save, eg /home/directory.
They have a support forum as well. Openmediavault is intended to run headless, so they advise not to install a desktop environment (due to performance and security). They do write that Debian itself is untouched on their website, so the base OS should be the same. There is a guide as well for installation using an official Debian image, so I can follow that and just copy my files and configuration files of packages I added myself.
Take it from me--Intel tenth-generation GPUs also need a newer Mesa, which isn't in backports
Mesa is the OpenGL driver, right? So what is needed to get hardware rendering of OpenGL working? Just out of curiosity, because I'm losing track here. You need:

- Mesa, which is a framework for OpenGL (and other graphics APIs)
--> needs a version with support for your device? Does it include the driver or does it need support for the driver?

- Firmware for your GPU
--> I thought firmware was the software implementation on the hardware device (which can be flashed in some cases). But hearing here it sounds like something loaded in the OS. What does this mean? Does this mean the OS has a piece of software to talk to the firmware in the device? Wouldn't you call that a driver, or is that Windows terminology?

I also read that support for intel iGPUs is integrated in the Linux kernel, so why would I need a separate driver / firmware?

Sorry for the many questions. I can't seem to see the forest for the trees.

Edit: [off-topic] BTW this is my first experience with an open source OS, and I must say I'm really impressed. As a long time Windows / Mac OS user, I've come to realize how restricted those operating systems are and how much more powerful the modular approach of e.g. Debian is, and how much more freedom it gives. Developers of open source software are the unsung heroes of our time :). [\off-topic]

cuckooflew
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Re: Gnome shell high CPU usage with Wayland

#17 Post by cuckooflew »

The out put of

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# dmesg | grep firmware 
looks ok, someone else maybe can explain more on that,
m798 » Openmediavault is intended to run headless, so they advise not to install a desktop environment (due to performance and security).
I think this is probably good advice, and a major factor.
======edited===found my glasses====
Sorry for the many questions. I can't seem to see the forest for the trees.
That's ok, but yes it does make hard to stay on topic, now the topic is touching on many things, some of these questions could be answered by just using a search engine, EG:
Firmware for your GPU
--> I thought firmware was the software implementation on the hardware device (which can be flashed in some cases). But hearing here it sounds like something loaded in the OS. What does this mean? Does this mean the OS has a piece of software to talk to the firmware in the device? Wouldn't you call that a driver, or is that Windows terminology?
Try various key words:

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 What is the differences between Firmware and Drivers  on Linux 
copy paste into search engine, read the various documentation and explanations.

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Firmware for your GPU 
The same, probably will get good results.
=============
Now, back to the Gnome thing,.. and knowing now your skill/knowledge level is based on MS windows. Gnome used to be a very good DE, but it has become something else, and in my opinion, is no longer of any use, to me, it is not just opinion, it is useless , it can not be used on my old hard ware. Well I suppose it could be, but the performance is so poor, it is not worth the trouble.
A good Window Manager is much more efficient , and quick/easy to install and configure, more about window managers: https://wiki.debian.org/WindowManager
Now , I am not sure about Openmediavault, but with Debian, you can install more then 1 DE, and you can install a Window Manager (WM), as well, or even several,
Gnome shell high CPU usage with Wayland
the topic title,...Gnome is going to all ways have a high CPU usage, even the most advanced users often have problems with that. However I don't want to offend, or get in yet another argument with a few members here , they still promote and try to convince every one that Gnome is great, etc,... even some Debian Developers, seem to think every one should use it, and there fore keep it as the default DE,...
So any way, if you install a WM, I prefer "fluxbox" myself, after trying several, but OpenBox is definitely easier to start out,==== to be continued =====
Edit===
Ok, well to try to be brief, the point is, you could install and try a WM, see if you like it, and it might be use full in the meantime so to speak, you can use it and not worry about heating caused by high CPU, also will have a GUI that you can use while you try to solve the more complex issues that are features of Gnome, and Gnome might be even more problematic on system intended to used/run headless, such as for a server or something,...
Please Read What we expect you have already Done
Search Engines know a lot, and
"If God had wanted computers to work all the time, He wouldn't have invented RESET buttons"
and
Just say NO to help vampires!

m798
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Re: Gnome shell high CPU usage with Wayland

#18 Post by m798 »

Thanks a lot! This is very interesting. I've been reading a bit on the topics you mentioned and I get the impression that this is a really deep rabbit hole. I'm experiencing information overload at the moment, so I'll get back to it later :) . I'll look into the window managers you mentioned. Thanks again.

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stevepusser
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Re: Gnome shell high CPU usage with Wayland

#19 Post by stevepusser »

Open source drivers in Linux consist of several parts in different packages, generally called a graphics driver stack. The default Intel driver for modern hardware is in the kernel, and called "modesetting", though there is also an "intel" driver provided by xserver-xorg-video-intel. Mesa must also support the hardware, and Buster's doesn't fully support hardware acceleration for tenth-gen GPUs. These GPUs also require non-free firmware in the firmware-misc-nonfree package, Buster's doesn't support 10th-gen, and I don't think the firmware in buster-backports currently supports it.

I started the AHS project to get MX Linux 19.2 ready for newer hardware, and it works, since Star Labs has approved MX as an optional Linux install on their tenth-generation Intel laptops. Try MX 19.2 AHS from a LiveUSB to confirm this--it costs nothing but a bit of time.

Lacking a newer Mesa in backports, your choice is Debian testing if you want to stick with pure Debian, or something like MX 19.2 AHS which has the required Mesa and firmware preinstalled. I don't know if any other derivatives have a newer Mesa backport.
MX Linux packager and developer

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pylkko
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Re: Gnome shell high CPU usage with Wayland

#20 Post by pylkko »

Of course, I would add to steve's excellent post that, these newer graphics drivers will eventually come to Debian. So if you wait a really long time, then you will be able to use pure Debian with all of them.

m798
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Re: Gnome shell high CPU usage with Wayland

#21 Post by m798 »

Thanks for these insightful answers.
I started the AHS project to get MX Linux 19.2 ready for newer hardware, and it works, since Star Labs has approved MX as an optional Linux install on their tenth-generation Intel laptops.
Thanks. I will try out MX Linux. As I see it's also based on Debian, so it might just run fine with the packages I have currently set up.
pylkko wrote:Of course, I would add to steve's excellent post that, these newer graphics drivers will eventually come to Debian. So if you wait a really long time, then you will be able to use pure Debian with all of them.
That's good to know. I guess it will come with the next version, which is going to take a while as I understand.

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Re: Gnome shell high CPU usage with Wayland

#22 Post by stevepusser »

Well, Debian did have newer Mesa versions in stretch-backports that were quite successful, and we also had them as standard in our Stretch-based MX 18 point releases as Stretch aged, so I don't really know why there aren't any for Buster, except maybe lack of personpower.

You should be able to install MX over Debian. Our installer has an option to preserve your home folder and any custom settings you have there, which should save some time, but back those up anyway if you can't stand to lose any...unless you prefer the way MX's xfce or the beta KDE version look out of the box.
MX Linux packager and developer

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Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Gnome shell high CPU usage with Wayland

#23 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

It is also possible to add the MX repositories to Debian and install the backported Mesa packages from there: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=146083
deadbang

m798
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Re: Gnome shell high CPU usage with Wayland

#24 Post by m798 »

stevepusser wrote:Try MX 19.2 AHS from a LiveUSB to confirm
I tried the MX Linux live version and it indeed works straight away.
stevepusser wrote:You should be able to install MX over Debian. Our installer has an option to preserve your home folder and any custom settings you have there
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:It is also possible to add the MX repositories to Debian and install the backported Mesa packages from there: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=146083
Those both look like interesting options. Thanks! I will think about what is most handy in my case.

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