Direct conversion of audio files on CD

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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby pendrachken » 2020-08-02 22:17

pylkko wrote:yes, but they do not need to be on the phone physically...so why bother making multiple versions? just stream them from your home or use a cloud. how much more time and space are you wasting makeing 2 versions of them 7000 songs???? Well, to each their own, i guess. I don't even have that much music...



Calling MP3 ( which can be played on a toaster with a half shorted out home made CPU ) garbage, then recommending streaming from cloud shit? Are you insane?

Mp3 is also quite fine at bitrates > 300. The only reason AAC was created was you could get away with adequate quality at about half the bitrate. Thus slightly smaller file sizes within video containers like MP4 or matroska.

How much time would I waste converting 7000 songs? All of the 5 seconds it takes to fire out a bash one liner to do the job for me.

How much space would I "waste"?None, I wouldn't notice the couple of gigs of extra songs compared to my TB's of archived photos and video I have.
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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby pylkko » 2020-08-03 08:17

What is it with this forum and all the ad hominems? In the last two weeks I have posted in but two threads. In the first I am called a "fanboi" in order to discredit my request for evidence to pretty radical factual claims. Here I'm called "insane" because I offer another solution to managing an audio collection. Do people really think that their points of view will appear more intelligent an well-informed if they call other people names? Like:"let's see, I think there are use cases for mp3 still. I will now argue this point convincingly by calling a person - that I do not even know - 'insane'. Yes, then I will feel happy about myself as a communicator and rational human being".

And to be fair, it wasn't me that called mp3 garbage originally, and my main point in that post was that other formats have superseded mp3 in any sense imaginable.

I personally really don't like the idea of having large music collections in multiple formats. It's not just the extra work converting them. In my experience, those files often need other things to be done. Maybe the tags need to be edited, for example. Then the different container formats have different meta-data layouts and maybe you even need different software to edit them. It's just simple to keep it in one format and flac - in my opinion - as the best of all worlds, since the quality is perfect, it is compressed, and it is hard to find a machine that cannot play flac (although, I do admit that mp3 may be more universal on legacy hardware). Flac also allows the easy reconstruction of the CD (CUE file) and the encoders/decoders are free software, although there are other license free codecs with FOSS decoder/encoder.

I have a small music collection in flac ripped from CD's. I have it on the LAN, so any machine can listen to it, and on the router I have installed a VPN server, which allows me to connect to it using mobile from anywhere in the world. In my view the advantages here are that I convert the library into one format and never touch it again once it is ready. There are no multiple copies, there are no files taking up space on the phones that use the library. It works over 4G mobile, but it also works because I mostly listen to music at work, where I have fiber optic/WiFi

For anyone interested, there is a node.js music player/library software called "Stretto". It will create a player and library interface in a browser and serve your music, album art and a library user interface. Obviously you can also use native music clients to do the same.

One more point, when I said "cloud", an earlier point was: "I don't like other people controlling my data". Well, you can also host your own cloud. Just connect that music hard drive to an owncloud container hosted on a RPi or whatever, if you do not want some commercial company "seeing what music you listen to"... But, yes, this only works if you have unlimited internet.
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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby CwF » 2020-08-03 13:13

Yep, this is a good thread to demonstrate the quality of these boards.

"MP3 Sucks" is little strong, and stupid, and misses a point. Are we asking about a suitable archive format? I don't think so. 320mp3 is a storage savings about 5:1, and you can't tell. If you can perhaps you should go analog and argue with them types. Since space isn't an issue I do have audio DVD's in ISO, for convenience and to keep the menus. For mp3 it's a good chance it could go into some device already paid for, still working, made years ago. If played through the computer, you can't tell. It fits the need or it doesn't. - you can't tell.

Again, I don't know and would like to know how good the mp3 codec is on debian. There is not 'ONE', and lame does suck. If it hasn't been redone in the last two years (?) then maybe it is junk, ie 16khz roll off, etc. So I just peeked into the issue,...Fedora says they have Fraunhofer codecs, does debian? Lame is not mp3, it's compatible. It was cool for 'nixers' to shout down mp3, that's so 2000's...where's oog?

Starting from now, mp3 is obsolete. As stated I'm 25k+ into the process, all done from source many not digital, done before lame existed. I choose to continue the way and not reinvent the wheel. No, you can't hear the difference. With all of that understood, should we talk about the actual optical device? They are not all equal you know? And where did DVD-A go?

Maybe I'll put the pieces together and test myself. I'll see if Debian can create a full sweep mp3 that scopes out and can reproduce the bit perfect match every time...

Hope the OP finds a good answer! Starting now, I would archive the iso and rig it up to fully emulate a changer stack with animations and mech sounds and full dewey index. For the gizmo I wanted to transcode the music to, I'd do it on the fly per circumstance. I've spent much to much time outside the reach of the internet to rely on streaming, a johny come lately

I'll add, just looked
Well I can't find it...So at this moment the answer is no, Debian does not have an unencumbered, finished, fraunhofer mp3 codec. So Debian does not have real mp3. It has lame.

There is a 'real AAC' though!

Next order of business, what qualifies as Debians' EAC clone for the one step rip to tagged file? On todays stuff that should be easy. My ancient box does it in one step at 10x.
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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-08-03 17:56

pendrachken wrote:Mp3 is also quite fine at bitrates > 300

CwF wrote:320mp3 is a storage savings about 5:1, and you can't tell

Sorry but you both need to upgrade your £10 soundbars and get the wax removed from your cloth ears :mrgreen:

EDIT: lossy codecs strip out over ¾ of the data and throw it away. That information cannot be recovered without access to the original source.
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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby CwF » 2020-08-03 18:32

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:nothing

..and you need to learn to read.
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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-08-03 18:36

^ Well please tell me which language you're using for your semi-comprehensible wall-of-text posts and I'll work on it :D
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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby pylkko » 2020-08-03 18:49

Although, to be fair. It is also probably true that many people cannot hear the difference in a double blind trial. Those that can do this, will be able to do it only when the conditions and equipment are perfect.

ref:
https://cdvsmp3.wordpress.com/cd-vs-itu ... t-results/

EDIT: although in the experiment above, they use a better codec than mp3 (AAC 256k VBR)
Also, the results are in a way inconclusive (my opinion), as it appears that some of the participants passed multiple times, while most failed. This could be explained by fact that most people don't know where to look, so to speak. It's very similar to FHD video vs HD. Most people can see the difference, but only after you teach them where to look (and they are at the correct distance from the screen, and the screen is not absolute shit, and this and that...
Last edited by pylkko on 2020-08-03 18:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby RU55EL » 2020-08-03 18:56

vuitreviejo wrote:This may be an obvious question, but haven't been able to find a direct answer. I'm running Debian 10 with LXDE desktop. I have a large audio collection and have been using Asunder to rip CDs to FLAC, put the files on a server and use MPD to play them. I use Sound Converter to convert FLAC to MP3 for portable play.


Reading this tread got me curious about Asunder. I normally use cdparanoia (command line tool) to rip a CDs to .wav files. Then, ffmpeg (also command line) to convert from .wav to .flac. Checking out Asunder, it can rip to .wav, .flac, and .ogg (vorbis) all in one wack! (It can also rip to AAC.) You might try ogg vorbis as a replacement for MP3.

I usually store music files as .flac, which uses lossless compression and can be converted back to .wav with no degradation.

vuitreviejo wrote:My question is, would converting directly from CD source with Sound Converter compromise the quality of the converted file?


Probably not. If you are trans coding from .wav and .flac, there should be no difference if your source is a CD or the hard drive.

But, you can rip from the CD directly to .flac, .wav, and .ogg all in one shot with Asunder. You might want to give it a try. Check out the encode tab under preferences. If you want to save some space, you can rip to .flac and .ogg, with .flac being lossless and about half the size of .wav, and .ogg (vorbis) being a possible replacement for MP3 you might want to consider.
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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby CwF » 2020-08-03 18:57

CwF wrote:Debian does not have real mp3. It has lame.


So likely, you've never heard it, wax or no wax. If you'd like to insist there is no conflation here of what constitutes mp3, fine. Like I care. hoas, You're the red book purist, 1,411 kbit/s isn't close to magic 24/192 standard. I guess you like vibrating your wax inappropriately.

The subject was settled 25 years ago - @320 You can't hear the difference, and there is only one format in my point, and again, Debian is at this time and during it's entire existence is not capable of creating said format, so to the op, yes Debian will compromise the quality using mp3 because it uses lame. I did not know this, now you do too. For real mp3 perhaps try Fedora.
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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby pylkko » 2020-08-03 19:05

RU55EL wrote:
Reading this tread got me curious about Asunder. I normally use cdparanoia (command line tool) to rip a CDs to .wav files. Then, ffmpeg (also command line) to convert from .wav to .flac. Checking out Asunder, it can rip to .wav, .flac, and .ogg (vorbis) all in one wack! (It can also rip to AAC.)


Correct me if I am wrong, but most rippers can rip to many formats at the same time. I used a non-graphical tool called abcde
https://abcde.einval.com/wiki/
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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby RU55EL » 2020-08-03 19:14

I don't really know. [/edit]I guess I've been stuck using old, old, software. "If it aint broke..." [edit] I don't normally use a graphical CD ripper. I use cdparanoia, a command line tool, then ffmpeg to transcode to other formats.

abcde looks interesting, I am going to check it out. Thanks for posting.
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Re: Direct conversion of audio files on CD

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-08-03 20:04

CwF wrote:
CwF wrote:Debian does not have real mp3. It has lame.


So likely, you've never heard it, wax or no wax. If you'd like to insist there is no conflation here of what constitutes mp3, fine.

My "garbage" label can be equally applied to any and all lossy codecs. I would consider a 1,411kb/s rate to be the bare minimum in respect of audio quality.

FWIW I have listened to MP3s on my smartphone (via a DragonFly Cobalt USB DAC) and they sound just awful to my ears.

CwF wrote:You're the red book purist, 1,411 kbit/s isn't close to magic 24/192 standard. I guess you like vibrating your wax inappropriately.

I said "accept nothing less". 24/192 is indeed very good but even I will admit to difficulty differentiating it from 24/96 — moving the brickwall filter that far out doesn't really reduce ringing by a significant amount, although it does reduce the (potential) jitter levels. And anyway a lot of "24/192" files don't have any content above 48KHz, HiFi News' music reviews actually measure the bandwidth: https://www.hifinews.com/category/hi-res-downloads

CwF wrote:The subject was settled 25 years ago - @320 You can't hear the difference

Cloth-eared nincompoops listening to shitty budget equipment can't tell the difference, I'll give you that :mrgreen:

See also https://www.stereophile.com/content/hi- ... nd-testing
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