Debian Does Not Boot Without Battery Plugged In

[josh321]

Hi, I have a thinkpad e440 with Debian Jessie installed. I use GNOME and thus systemd. Recently the laptop's battery stopped charging when the AC is plugged in. This could be several things, maybe I need to get a new battery (the battery is only a year old). However I need a computer for work, so I tried unplugging the battery and turning on the computer with AC plugged in. The computer turns on, the grub menu appears, but after I choose the option to boot Debian grub shows the loading ramdisk (or is it the kernel or something like that? The two lines that grub shows after selecting Debian) verbose and then shuts off. When I plug the battery back in, grub is able to boot Debian. As my battery is running out I am not sure whether I will be able to boot when the battery life is zero. Is systemd just looking to make sure the battery is plugged in and then fails when it is not? Can anyone try to reproduce this? I suppose I'll find out soon as to whether I can boot without battery life, but the battery plugged in.

Thanks for any help in advance. Any comments on the battery refusing to take a charge are helpful too. I heard on another forum that draining the battery of all of its power (by holding the power button for several seconds after the battery is dead) and then recharging afterward may help. Not too sure.

EDIT: With 0% battery I am able to boot into Debian as long as both the AC and the battery are plugged in. Battery still won't charge, but at least I can use my computer.

[stevepusser]

Some laptops might need a battery in there, though I would think they would do nothing at all from the get-go. You could try booting a live version of Debian or another distro to test to see if they are different. Usually searching the web for your type of problem will turn up others users of the same machine with the problem.

[josh321]

A little bit after using the laptop with 0% battery, the laptop shutoff. When turning it back on it prints a message saying the battery life is critical, then shuts off. Although I can't flash a Debian live image without my computer, I did have a flash drive with the Debian installer lying around. I booted it and tried to go into graphical rescue mode, but the machine shuts off shortly after choosing rescue mode in a way similar to booting Debian. I suppose the machine is designed to stay at a low level (GRUB or something similar) unless the battery is plugged in. This is a lousy feature... Although I suppose both the installer and Debian could be failing, this is unlikely. I guess the only thing I can do is buy a new battery.

Unfortunately since the E440 is relatively new there aren't really any forum posts on this subject. At least none I could find. Thanks for suggesting to boot something off a flash drive, I wouldn't have thought of that.

Still if anyone could reproduce this error on the same or a similar machine that would be much appreciated.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

Is systemd just looking to make sure the battery is plugged in and then fails when it is not?

You can answer this question yourself by booting your system with SysVinit running as PID1.
https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianU ... _Jessie.3F

[josh321]

I tried booting with sysvinit and the computer still shuts off. The issue is not specific to systemd.

[GarryRicketson]

generally, computers, and other electrical devices, everything has to be plugged in, to start and run properly. The OS has nothing to do with that.
The problem may not be that the battery is no good, it really sounds to me like it is your power supply, or the battery charger, There are "tools", to check how much voltage is coming out of the
power supply, etc, and to test the curcuits, if you don't have those 'tools", the best thing to do is
take it to a shop, where they can check and test the electric system, including the battery, or buy
some basic electrical testing equip.
You are "barking up the wrong tree", in thinking it is systemd, or OS related.

[millpond]

Its probably a safety 'feature'.

When plugged into the wall, the battery acts as a voltage regulator, limiting the voltage from frequently cheaply made switching supplies. If the battery is totally dead, or missing, voltages can reach unacceptable levels and potentially damage componnents.

Plus the AC supply may be made to trickle charge the battery, and have insufficient capabilities to power a runing system.

Think battery and charger on a car.

[cpoakes]

Its probably a safety 'feature'.

When plugged into the wall, the battery acts as a voltage regulator, limiting the voltage from frequently cheaply made switching supplies. If the battery is totally dead, or missing, voltages can reach unacceptable levels and potentially damage componnents.

Plus the AC supply may be made to trickle charge the battery, and have insufficient capabilities to power a runing system.

Think battery and charger on a car.

You are talking nonsense. No major laptop vendor (Lenovo in this specific instance) uses the battery as a regulator. I challenge you to identify a specific Lenovo model, or any HP, Dell, Apple, Toshiba, or ASUS model that does.

Some laptop vendors offer lightweight and low wattage battery chargers that cannot both operate and charge the laptop at the same time. These can often boot the BIOS, but the system will appropriately shut down when the power demand increases - typically once the processor steps up speed or other systems start drawing power. I note aftermarket sellers provide a choice of 45w, 60w, and 90w power supplies for the e440. Without further research, I assume the 45w supply is one of these lightweight low wattage chargers. If josh321 has one, there appear to be two options: get a new battery to work with the lightweight supply, or get a higher rated supply.

[josh321]

I bought a new battery but it is the same situation. The computer acts as if the charger is not even connected (however the light over the "i" in the think pad logo does flicker). This new battery has some charge on it but will soon die if I keep on using it. For that reason I'm posting from my cell phone. I tried booting a trisquel live image too, same problem, shuts off after selecting "try trisquel live without installing." Keep in mind this is with only the AC plugged in, no battery. I think it is possible that the charging mechanism in the computer might be damaged, but I have the slightest idea how. The only thing I can blame is the charger which has only two prongs, no third for ground. I suppose a lightening strike could have caused damage, but I never had this issue with other laptops before.

I tried a friends AC adaptor that seems to be compatibile with my computer. It plugs in and the "i" light flickers like it is supposed too. However the battery still does not charge. I am considering getting a new laptop now unfortunately. I suppose that I might need a powe pack with more watts, but I'm not sure.

Thanks for all the help.

[millpond]

Its probably a safety 'feature'.

When plugged into the wall, the battery acts as a voltage regulator, limiting the voltage from frequently cheaply made switching supplies. If the battery is totally dead, or missing, voltages can reach unacceptable levels and potentially damage componnents.

Plus the AC supply may be made to trickle charge the battery, and have insufficient capabilities to power a runing system.

Think battery and charger on a car.

You are talking nonsense. No major laptop vendor (Lenovo in this specific instance) uses the battery as a regulator. I challenge you to identify a specific Lenovo model, or any HP, Dell, Apple, Toshiba, or ASUS model that does.

Some laptop vendors offer lightweight and low wattage battery chargers that cannot both operate and charge the laptop at the same time. These can often boot the BIOS, but the system will appropriately shut down when the power demand increases - typically once the processor steps up speed or other systems start drawing power. I note aftermarket sellers provide a choice of 45w, 60w, and 90w power supplies for the e440. Without further research, I assume the 45w supply is one of these lightweight low wattage chargers. If josh321 has one, there appear to be two options: get a new battery to work with the lightweight supply, or get a higher rated supply.

I dont do laptop repair, but typiclly batteries when present would obviate the need for extra circuitry like additional regulators and cpacitors.
I do not question that a higher quality and better rated supply might work, but it depends on the ever cheapening quality of engineering practicces and components.

And whether there is built in sabotage to force the user to get a new battery at some outrageous price, or a new machine to drive sales.

[GarryRicketson]

And whether there is built in sabotage to force the user to get a new battery at some outrageous price, or a new machine to drive sales.

If you look at where it was manufactured, this is most likely the case. "cheap", but junk.