continuous nvidia problems

Getting your soundcard to work, using Debian on non-i386 hardware, etc

Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby shrike » 2017-04-23 10:45

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I would like to take this opportunity to note that the NVIDIA drivers are binary blobs and are *not* part of the official Debian distribution.

I would much prefer that Debian's developers spend their precious time on the free (as in speech) parts of the operating system, to hell with the blobs...

:twisted:


True, like they could fix modprobe.d so that it actually blacklists modules when you say so and not to behave randomly. There is nothing worse then a distro that has a random, nonrepeatable behavior.
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2017-04-23 11:15

^ the /etc/modprobe.d directory has worked just fine on every Debian system I have ever installed and also on several other user's systems both here and over at forums.bunsenlabs.org

I would humbly submit that your complaints are PEBKAC in nature.

It is worth noting that blacklisted modules can still be loaded by other modules, the output to analyse would have been:
Code: Select all
lsmod | grep nouveau

There would also have been clues in `dmesg` and the systemd journal but I didn't feel like pulling teeth any longer...
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby shrike » 2017-04-23 11:26

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:the /etc/modprobe.d directory has worked just fine on every Debian system I have ever installed

It works for _most_ stuff, but not all. For example, here it doesn't work for nouveau.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
I would humbly submit that your complaints are PEBKAC in nature.

No, they are not. I'd agree if I were the only one, but I'm not. This is debians lack of QA for laptops and probably some design choices.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:It is worth noting that blacklisted modules can still be loaded by other modules, the output to analyse would have been:

See, this is a bug to me. If i mark something to be blackilsted i really do expect it to be blacklisted and not allowed to be loaded by other things.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Code: Select all
lsmod | grep nouveau

There would also have been clues in `dmesg` and the systemd-journal but I didn't feel like pulling teeth any longer...


lsmod | grep nouveau clearly shows nouveau as loaded even after being in the blacklist. So, if something else enforced it's loading, what's the point of having the instructions say to add it to modprobe.d blackilist if this is not going to work? On a brand new install with not much on it? If it doesn't work when it is done automatically by dpkg as part of nvidia module installation, thereby completely nullifying any chance of PEBKAC, why does it do it? So, it's NOT my problem... The web is loaded with people having the exact same issue, stuff in modprobe.d still getting loaded.
Last edited by shrike on 2017-04-23 11:29, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby shrike » 2017-04-23 11:28

stevepusser wrote:Now you make me want to see if our MX-16 Linux Nvidia driver auto-installer, which aims to detect and install bumblebee-nividia automagically on Optimus systems, will have troubles with your machines, too. The 64-bit ISO should cover newer hardware, 32-bit just has the stock Jessie kernel.

Our developer also passed what we had learned on to the SolydXK developers, so their Device Driver Manager may also now incorporate the same ability. Both these distros are based on Debian Jessie with added tweaks.



openarena didn't want to run. it started and then crashed X, had to reboot. the only things that ran successfully were like "optirun pwd". I made no changes at all after installing nvidia from your menu.
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby shrike » 2017-04-24 07:00

For aynone even remotely interested, ubuntu 17.04 worked immediately. "apt install nvidia-prime" works immediately, even cuda works properly.
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby acewiza » 2017-04-24 13:46

shrike wrote:For aynone even remotely interested, ubuntu 17.04 worked immediately. "apt install nvidia-prime" works immediately, even cuda works properly.

I became remotely disinterested in Ubuntu several years ago, but IIRC, never noted the Ubuntu faithful having much less proclivity towards video problems than anybody else during my brief stays in those circles. Maybe you should consider hanging out there where you can be the helper instead of the helpee?
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby shrike » 2017-04-26 05:55

acewiza wrote:
shrike wrote:For aynone even remotely interested, ubuntu 17.04 worked immediately. "apt install nvidia-prime" works immediately, even cuda works properly.

I became remotely disinterested in Ubuntu several years ago, but IIRC, never noted the Ubuntu faithful having much less proclivity towards video problems than anybody else during my brief stays in those circles. Maybe you should consider hanging out there where you can be the helper instead of the helpee?


I'm already on ubuntu forums since ubuntu 5.04 came out, but i wasn't active for a while. Not likely I'll become. I'm really sorry that Debian didn't solve this, since apparently other distros can do it.
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2017-04-26 06:34

It's not Debian's job to 'solve' your misconfigurations or, really, to provide support for proprietary systems.
That said, the tools and instructions are there, and do work, as per Steve's posts, whether or not you and your friends can seem to make it work for you.

That's why ubuntu exists i guess, to be a bit more hand-holdy for those that like/need that sort of thing (although that approach also brings a lot of downsides that most Debian users don't like too).
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby shrike » 2017-04-26 07:46

dilberts_left_nut wrote:It's not Debian's job to 'solve' your misconfigurations or, really, to provide support for proprietary systems.


There are no misconfigurations. I followed official wiki instructions to the letter in hopes to get similar results as I can on other distros, but it never worked. Ever. Not for me, not for anyone I know. Not on nvidia propriatery OR nouveau. I do not expect "hand holding", I can and have compiled my own kernels for the past decade and longer, I do understand the debian subsystems, I do know how to operate it. The problem isn't me. The instructions DO NOT WORK universally. The problem is broken Debian QA.

Seriously, you want me to believe that you guys can run nvidia PRIME from debian wiki in no time, while I couldn't make it work in the past few years on debian, but works trivially on ubuntu/suse? Or optimus? Guys, this is not "hand holding", this is "on distro A it works no problem, on distro B it doesn't work at all" sort of situation.

Sit down and think about this: on Debian, optimus doesn't work after weeks of toying with it. On ubuntu, PRIME works after a single command. PRIME >> optimus. Does this not ring any bells to you?
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby dilberts_left_nut » 2017-04-26 10:18

:roll:

Your bumblebee.conf is specifying the nouveau module.
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-04-26 13:10

by shrike »this is "on distro A it works no problem, on distro B it doesn't work at all" sort of situation.

Sit down and think about this: on Debian, optimus doesn't work after weeks of toying with it. On ubuntu, PRIME works after a single command. PRIME >> optimus.

Sounds to me like we have a hungry troll, I know, I shouldn't feed it, but I feel sorry for these poor guys,...

To start with, "distro A" is NOT "distro B", but it is obvious the troll wants it to be like "distro A" which is his/her favourite.
Instead of using "ubunto" (distro A) , since it works the way the troll wants it to,
they come here, and start trying to tell us we need to change Debian, (distro B), and make it like Ununtu (distro A), but the troll does not realize that we (the members of this forum) are not the Debian developers, so to start with they are addressing the problem to the wrong people.

dilberts_left_nut »That's why ubuntu exists i guess, to be a bit more hand-holdy for those that like/need that sort of thing (although that approach also brings a lot of downsides that most Debian users don't like too).


Another option, much better then Ubuntu, something I have no interest in what so ever, a better option is MX-16 , similar to the OP, I am not advanced enough, and want something that just works, instead of having to take the time to install firmware/drivers , etc,...so any way the wonderful people involved with the "MX linux", have done all the work for me, and that is a much better option the Ubuntu ,....

shrike wrote:For aynone even remotely interested, ubuntu 17.04 worked immediately. "apt install nvidia-prime" works immediately, even cuda works properly.

NO thanks, I am not even remotely interested in Ubuntu, that is why I use Debian, and the MX - distros,...

by shrike » I do understand the debian subsystems, I do know how to operate it. The problem isn't me. The instructions DO NOT WORK universally. The problem is broken Debian QA.

They GIVE you Debian, and volunteers donate their time and skills working to provide documentation, websites, instructions, etc,... If you really understand
the Debian subsystems, and know so much, why don't you help a little , instead
of wasting every bodies time, whining and moaning , complaining here ?
The wiki is available, and also anyone with the desire to help, can register and
edit, or add better instructions, etc,...
Yes I do understand, and realize it is impossible to cover every situation, thus
some of the instructions do not work "universally",... If you think you can make a improvement on those instructions , please do.
The same , on the Debian.org website,...there all ways is a need for volunteers to contribute, and add details or additional documentation, and there is a process for doing that,...why not help out ?

Post by shrike » The problem isn't me. The instructions DO NOT WORK universally. The problem is broken Debian QA.

So why not help fix that ?
---------- edited ------------
Don't just complain, volunteer and do something to help Debian get better
--------------------------------------------
https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
Don't have poor etiquette when getting support!

When looking for support it's important to remember that Debian is a volunteer project and people will be more inclined to help if you're polite and willing to put a little effort in yourself. Here are some general guidelines that will help you get help:

Research the issue on your own first, including reading documentation and using search engines.

Provide details and ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html.
If you get frustrated don't take it out on the volunteers trying to help, even if they seem frustrated with you.
Don't expect to be spoon fed, if you need to be guided through step by step it's a sign that you need to learn more on your own by reading documentation.
----snip-----

----------------------------
https://www.debian.org/devel/join/
and
https://www.debian.org/intro/help

Since the OP seems to think the Debian QA is broken, I would suggest
getting involved with them, and seeing what can be done,...
https://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/Join
Last edited by GarryRicketson on 2017-04-26 16:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby dasein » 2017-04-26 13:19

shrike wrote:Sit down and think about this: on Debian, optimus doesn't work after weeks of toying with it. On ubuntu, PRIME works after a single command. PRIME >> optimus. Does this not ring any bells to you?

Oh noes, Ubuntu and Debian aren't identical? Really?? :shock:

In similarly stunning news, even though Venus and Neptune are both planets, they have different chemical compositions, different gravity, and dramatically different orbits. Clearly you need to find an astronomy forum where you can rant about the appalling lack of planetary QA.

If you're happier with a different distro for whatever reason, use it and be happy.
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby Starvoid » 2017-06-21 14:20

Hi all, yes, thanks for the advice.

First, thanks to the people (developers, designers, QA, etc) that help to maintain debian. The best distro in this universe.

I've been using debian more than... , I don't remember since when, since always I think.

I don't like canonical so much for a lot of reasons, last one is the dropping of ubuntu touch project.

I still love debian and I'll return to it ASAP, but TODAY I going to install linux mint on my optimus del laptop just because it's ubuntu based and have the nvidia-prime package.

In may case I'm going to betray debian only for this reason, and I've waste a lot of hours trying to do whatever I found on internet.

I had bumblebee working perfectly, but the performance (because memory transfer) was dreadful.
I had a manual script to make the switch
Now, I have only the intel card active all the time.

Well, this is my reason, but a lot of other people have their own reasons too, and the result is mint is winning debian: https://distrowatch.com/

This is not a complain, this is an asking

Please, let me return to debian ASAP

Best regards.
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-06-21 14:35

Nobody is stopping you from using Debian, it is a choice you make,
if you prefer the other distro, that is fine as well.

If you are try to say Debian should be more like Linux Mint, then you are
barking up the wrong tree. There are lot's of reasons I do not use Linux Mint,
I don't really care what "distro watch" says, nor what the "most popular" is.

If Debian was like the other distros, I wouldn't be using it either.

This reminds me of the MS windows lovers, that want to use Debian, but
can not , or do not , because it is not enough like their beloved Windows, so they
seem to think it needs to be changed , because it is not like what they claim is
"most popular".
"What we expect you have already Done"

Before doing anything, read the Debian documentation:
Debian Documentation
How to ask the smart way
Debian Foro Español
======================
For the Birds
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Re: continuous nvidia problems

Postby Starvoid » 2017-06-22 09:11

Ok, you are right

But please, help me to understand.

I know (I think I really do) what open source means and I know that nvidia doesn't unveil the source code of it's drivers, and probably they never will do. (Other brands, maybe, are taking advantage of this and selling more cards)

But, debian let me (in freedom) to choose setting contrib and non-free in my sources.list.

Theses settings allow me to install nvidia-drivers for example. Debian let me to do it on my own, maybe ignoring the open source advices.

Then, why is so bad to package an nvida-prime solution based on the ubutu's?

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