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xsnow not working in Etch KDE

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bluesdog
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#21 Post by bluesdog »

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computerbob@debian:~$ dpkg -l xscreensaver-gl
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed
|/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name           Version        Description
+++-==============-==============-============================================
un  xscreensaver-g <none>         (no description available)
xscreensaver-gl is not installed.

xscreensaver-gl is an optional package, and must therefore be installed explicitly -- although your system seems to list the screensavers, they don't actually exist useably on your system.

Try

Code: Select all

# apt-get update
# apt-get install xscreensaver-gl
Last edited by bluesdog on 2007-12-24 00:34, edited 1 time in total.
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#22 Post by ComputerBob »

I used Synaptic to check first, and you're right - xscreensaver-gl is not installed. I installed it and it automatically installed libgl3.

And guess what? Now I have a whole bunch of working OpenGL screensavers!

As Inspector Clouseau would say, "Problem sol - vedd."

Thank you! :lol:

Even though, like I said, I never use a screensaver, it's really reassuring to know that everything is installed now and I COULD use any of the OpenGL screensavers if I wanted to.

So now that begs the question, "Why wasn't xscreensaver-gl installed?"

I don't know if this possibly relates to that question or not, but I noticed that Synaptic mentioned something about xscreensaver being part of the Mesa package. That reminds me that when I first installed the nvidia drivers "the Debian way," and I tried to run glxgears afterward, I got an error message, saying that glxgears was an unknown command. After I installed the mesa-utils, glxgears worked just fine.

So apparently the Debian KDE CD #1 doesn't install either the mesa-utils or xscreensaver-gl by default. Maybe it should, especially since it installs 7x OpenGL screensavers and only a few of them work without xscreensaver-gl.
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#23 Post by ComputerBob »

Here's a follow-up, for anyone who runs into the same problem in the future and finds this thread:

After I installed xscreensaver-gl, and saw that all of my OpenGL screensavers were working, I restored my original, unedited /etc/X11/xorg.conf file, restarted X, and they still all worked. :wink:
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#24 Post by bluesdog »

Description for xscreensaver-gl:
GL(Mesa) screen hacks for xscreensaver
These are some extra hacks for xscreensaver that use the Mesa
OpenGL-compatible library. They are included as an extra package so
the base package doesn't require Mesa. In addition, these hacks function
nicely as GL demos for people who want to try out hardware accelerated 3D
with X.Org
Description for kscreensaver-xsavers:
KDE hooks for standard xscreensavers
This package allows a smooth integration of the standard xscreensavers
into KDE. With this package installed you can select and/or configure
the standard xscreensavers through the Appearances and Themes section of
the KDE Control Centre.

Note that this package does not actually contain any screensavers itself.
For the additional screensavers shipped with KDE, see the separate package
kscreensaver. This package does depend on the xscreensaver package, and
recommend the xscreensaver-gl package, as well as contain the necessary
files to integrate these packages into KDE.

This package is part of KDE, and a component of the KDE artwork module.
See the 'kde' and 'kdeartwork' packages for more information.
Note that kscreensaver-xsavers is part of a typical KDE install, and note in it's description about xscreensaver-gl package being recommended :)
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#25 Post by ComputerBob »

bluesdog wrote:....note in it's description about xscreensaver-gl package being recommended :)
As I see it, the problem with xscreensaver-gl being "recommended" is that, as a user, I was never given a choice to install those OpenGL screensavers in the first place.

In fact, as I described in My Debian Adventure, the KDE installer never asked me to choose ANY packages -- it only asked me if I wanted to use a network mirror or not. If I said "Yes," it automatically installed over 700 packages. If I said "No," it automatically installed over 600 packages, So when I installed Debian, the installer went ahead and downloaded over 700 packages and installed them, all without giving me any choice whatsoever as to what it was going to install. And, as I described, even when I tried RE-installing Debian from the Debian KDE CD #1 4 different times, using both the text-based and GUI installer, it still never gave me the option to choose which packages I wanted to install. :shock:

If I had chosen to install a package of OpenGL screensavers, then I can see how I would have to take the responsibility to accept or reject whatever additional packages were recommended to make those screensavers work. But since I was never given the choice to install those OpenGL screensavers, I was never informed that xscreensaver-gl was recommended to make them work, so I had no way of knowing why they weren't working.

I see this as a problem that could turn a lot of people off, since it appears that the installer causes the problem to begin with, and it takes a long thread like this one to figure out how to solve it. A long thread that a lot of people won't be able or willing to take the time to find.

I may be wrong, but it seems clear to me that if the Debian KDE CD #1 installer is going to install all of those hundreds of packages (including over 70 OpenGL screensavers) without giving me any say in the matter, then the installer should also install whatever additional package are required in order to make those hundreds of installed packages work, including the xscreensaver-gl package that seems to be required in order to make the OpenGL screensavers work. :wink:
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#26 Post by llivv »

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#27 Post by bluesdog »

:lol:
You mean you actually want everything to just work?

Where's the fun in that?
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#28 Post by ComputerBob »

bluesdog wrote::lol:
You mean you actually want everything to just work?
Yes, please. :lol:
bluesdog wrote:Where's the fun in that?

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot how much fun this was. :lol:
.
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#29 Post by Lavene »

There are a gazillion packages you're not told that exists. What goes into the default installation is based on the popularity contest, the rest you are expected to find on your own. You'll get used to it after a while; when something doesn't work the first thing you do is to go looking for a package that might solve the problem. In your case, looking for something related to screensavers:

Code: Select all

# apt-cache search --names-only screensaver

gnome-screensaver - GNOME screen saver and locker
libxcb-screensaver0 - X C Binding, screensaver extension
libxcb-screensaver0-dbg - X C Binding, screensaver extension, debugging symbols
libxcb-screensaver0-dev - X C Binding, screensaver extension, development files
kscreensaver - additional screen savers released with KDE
kscreensaver-xsavers - KDE hooks for standard xscreensavers
kscreensaver-xsavers-webcollage - webcollage screensaver KDE hook
xscreensaver - Automatic screensaver for X
xscreensaver-gl - GL(Mesa) screen hacks for xscreensaver
Cool eh? Maybe a new chapter in your Debian adventure? ;)
There are of course numerous other ways to search for packages. The man pages is of great help there. As I said, you'll get used to it.

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#30 Post by ComputerBob »

@ Tina,

What's the point of including a zillion popular packages in the default installation if you don't include the things that each of those popular packages need in order to actually work? How did those package ever get to be popular if each user has to individually figure out how to get some of them to work?

If I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like the equivalent of making a really cool, brand new car that everyone wants because it includes electric door, electric windows, electric seats, electric seat warmers, electric mirrors, electric cup holders, an electronic GPS system, an electronic security system and a super-duper electronic sound system...

....and then delivering that car with some fuses missing from its fuse box and expecting customers to figure out which fuses they need to find and where they need to install them in order to make everything work. :lol:

Maybe I'm missing something, but I just "don't get" how anyone could think that doing that would be a good idea, let alone consciously decide to do things that way.

UNLESS you're telling me that no one WANTS to deliver the car with missing fuses, but building a car is a complex process that sometimes involves forgetting a fuse here and there. Now THAT would make sense to me. Please tell me that that's what you're saying. :lol:
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#31 Post by Lavene »

ComputerBob wrote:@ Tina,

What's the point of including a zillion popular packages in the default installation if you don't include the things that each of those popular packages need in order to actually work? How did those package ever get to be popular if each user has to individually figure out how to get some of them to work?
When it comes to this screensaver thing I agree with you. It's stupid to include the list but not the packages needed to run them. And I have no idea what so ever what's behind that somewhat bizarre idea.
If I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like the equivalent of making a really cool, brand new car that everyone wants because it includes electric door, electric windows, electric seats, electric seat warmers, electric mirrors, electric cup holders, an electronic GPS system, an electronic security system and a super-duper electronic sound system...

....and then delivering that car with some fuses missing from its fuse box and expecting customers to figure out which fuses they need to find and where they need to install them in order to make everything work. :lol:
It reminds me of something that happened years ago when CD players still was kinda expensieve. I managed to break the remote and went to buy a new one. They had two models, one basic and one advanced. Not having a lot of money I went for the basic one.

When I got home I noticed that the basic one I had just bought looked exactly like the broken advanced less the buttons. Curious I opened them both and the PCBs was exactly the same. So I put the PCB from my basic model in the case of the advanced one and viola... I had an advanced remote. The only difference being that the basic mode lacked the actual buttons!
Maybe I'm missing something, but I just "don't get" how anyone could think that doing that would be a good idea, let alone consciously decide to do things that way.
You could try to file a bug report, severity 'wishlist', requesting that "xscreensaver-gl" is made into a dependency of 'xscreensaver'. It might just be as simple as the package screwing up systems not using OpenGL though...

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#32 Post by ComputerBob »

Thanks for clarifying! At least I I can take a little comfort in knowing that I'm not the only one who thinks that the whole screensaver situation is rather bizarre. And your story about the remote control seems especially appropriate to the topic at hand. :lol:

I get the imprssion that the fact that I installed Debian Etch from the Debian KDE CD, and do not have Gnome on my system at all, puts me in a pretty small minority of users -- users who have a few specific issues that Gnome and Gnome/KDE users don't deal with -- and maybe that's partly why there hasn't been a groundswell of interest to deal with the default screensavers issue in a way that makes sense. :wink:
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#33 Post by llivv »

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#34 Post by ComputerBob »

Yes, what you're sayihg makes sense, except that I didn't start with a base install and then add KDE and additional apps to it. I did a full-install from the Debian KDE CD #1 and it automatically installed KDE and over 700 packages at the time of the initial installation, without giving me any choice about what to install.

That's what I was referring to when I said that we KDE-only users deal with a few specific issues that Gnome and Gnome/KDE users probably don't have to deal with.

I don't think anyone should change how the default Gnome installation works, or how the default base installation-plus-build-it-yourself works, but I wish someone would take a hard look at that KDE-only installation CD and make it work in a way that's consistent with how the other installation CDs work. For example I think that if the KDE-only installation CD is going to install over 700 packages by default (like it did for me) including over 70 OpenGL screensavers, then I would strongly suggest that it should either install xscreensaver-gl too, to make sure that those screensavers work, or not install those screensavers by default.

In other words (mostly your words), I think that, just like the Gnome-only normal installation CD that most people use, the KDE-only installation CD should provide "a default install of (KDE) that has been previously organized and extensively debugged and double checked by testers." And it appears that that's exactly what it does do for the most part, except that it installs a bunch of OpenGL screensavers by default but it doesn't install xscreensaver-gl to make sure that they work. That can leave new KDE-only users with a problem that, while not very important to the functioning of their computer, is very disturbing to discover, because it makes them think that something (OpenGL, nvidia, xorg.conf -- this thread contains several examples) must be configured incorrectly, when actually, everything is fine and the only reason those screensavers don't work is because the KDE-only installation CD forgot to install xscreensaver-gl. :wink:
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#35 Post by llivv »

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#36 Post by ComputerBob »

llivv wrote:While the cats away ...... the mouses play :wink:
Very nice! :wink:
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