What is a "Fake" Debian User?

[EMD]

In response to RickH's "What is a 'Real' Debian User?" I think it's time to start a "Fake Debian Users' Club."

Anybody can install Debian these days, and a lot of people with limited Linux knowledge manage to get far enough along to come here asking how to fix the messy situation that resulted from their fumbling attempts to get some basic configuration added to the system.

People who can take a few hints and run with the ball have what it takes to become Debian Users (note capitalization) as opposed to the wannabees.

Yes! We're the wannabees! We didn't spend five years in college studying computational theory, data structures, programming, algorithms, neural networks and machine learning, but we're not stupid people!

We chose Debian because it was simple and easy to install. We chose Debian because it has the best package management system of any GNU/Linux distribution. We chose Debian because we agree with the goals of the Free Software movement.

Occasionally, we make mistakes. Occasionally, we run a mixed stable/testing/unstable system. Occasionally, we need someone to patiently explain to us why that's a bad idea. Given proper instruction, we will learn.

When we run into trouble, we try to use Google to find a solution, but occasionally it is difficult to understand the results that we find. On those occasions, we turn to the forum for help.

We're willing to use the command line, but -- like any foreign language -- it takes time to learn the vocabulary. We're willing to learn the language, but sometimes we need a good teacher.

We respect the Debian Social Contract, but we would also like to listen to music, play DVDs and watch Flash videos on occasion, even if it means installing some non-free software. We do know that we should not encourage others to use non-free software however, so we don't send files saved in proprietary file formats to other people and we don't send files that contain proprietary fonts or codecs to other people.

Finally, we express our gratitude to the developers who have worked so hard to produce the greatest GNU/Linux distribution on Earth and to the "Real Debian Users" who help us understand it, help us solve any problems we encounter and help us make the most of it.

Thank you Debian!
.

[eyelid]

I'm a Debian User. The question I have is: Am I a Debianist, a Debianite, a Debianer, a Debianie ?
What is the correct term for a ( real or fancied ) Debian User?

[Red-guy]

To me there are three levels in Debian ...a "debian user", a "Debian User" and those of us on our way to being a "Debian User".

debian user-- "one who uses Debian/GNU as their OS"

Debian User-- "one who knows their way in Debian and rarily encounters an issue they can not resolve alone"

and then those who are on their way the this great station.

[Bro.Tiag]

I beg to differ (w/ the OP), if one is running an operating system installed from Debian then they are a "Real" Debian User. On the other hand, if one is running some other operating system that utilizes the debian package management system, then they are not a "Real" Debian User, not that there is anything wrong with that mind you. As to a "Fake" Debian User, well that is someone who is not running a system installed from Debian, but still calls themselves a "Real" Debian User.

Cheers

[craigevil]

Nah the Fake debian users are those of use running sidux.

You should probably choose something else if:
- You are new to Unix.
- You need to use top-of-the-line hardware.
- You want to run Debian because "it is cool."
- You want a working system and are unwilling to figure out how it works.
(If you are looking for something that "just works," try one of the Debian derivatives.)

Running Debian Sid on steroids.

$ cat /etc/debian_version
lenny/sid

$ infobash -v3
Host/Kernel/OS "craigevil" running Linux 2.6.24-2.6.24.2.slh.4-sidux-686 i686 [ sidux 2007-04.5 - Έρως christmas special - kde-full - (200712260138) ]
CPU Info VIA Esther 128 KB cache flags( sse3 nx ) clocked at [ 1496.263 MHz ]
Videocard nVidia NV44A [GeForce 6200] X.Org 1.4.0.90 [ 1280x1024@50.0hz ]
VIA , UniChrome Pro IGP
Network cards VIA VT6102 [Rhine-II], at port: ee00
Processes 83 | Uptime 2days | Memory 396.7/1962.9MB | HDD ATA WDC WD800JB-00JJ Size 80GB (62%used) | GLX Renderer GeForce 6200/PCI/SSE2 | GLX Version 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.19 | Client Shell | Infobash v3.01

$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
# See sources.list(5) for more information, especially
# Remember that you can only use http, ftp or file URIs
# CDROMs are managed through the apt-cdrom tool.
# The /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ directory provides a way to add sources.list

# Debian unstable/sid
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free
# deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free
#deb http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free

# Official sidux repo
deb http://sidux.com/debian/ sid main fix.main contrib non-free firmware fix.contrib fix.non-free
# deb-src http://sidux.com/debian/ sid main fix.main contrib non-free firmware fix.contrib fix.non-free

# Debian-multimedia.org
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ sid main
# deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ testing main

# xadras' repo
# deb http://sidux.wuertz.org/ sid main
# deb-src http://sidux.wuertz.org/ sid main

# Cathbards sidux/Debian artwork repo
# http://www.cathbard.com/
# deb ftp://cathbard.com/ ./

# Compiz Fusion for Debian Sid/sidux
# For more info see: http://www.linuxsmokersclub.com/?p=95
# deb http://download.tuxfamily.org/shames/de ... /unstable/ ./
# deb http://download.tuxfamily.org.nyud.net/ ... /unstable/ ./

[Gesh]

Aren't the fake debian users the ubuntu users? or are they at least debian users under cover? As we all know Ubuntu is an ancient african word, which means "I cannot configure Debian" (Just jokking, I mean no offence )

[hellfire[bg]]

I don`t understand the need to discuss who is a real debian user and who is not. For me everyone who uses Debian is a Debian user.

[souneedalink]

Aren't the fake debian users the ubuntu users?

that is a 'fake debian' user which is different that a fake 'debian user'

[Lavene]

"Real Debian users don't fake it!"

[EMD]

I don`t understand the need to discuss who is a real debian user and who is not.

Neither do I, but given the choice I'd rather be a Fake Debian User!

[Ook]

I prefer fake to real also.

I have always avoided girlfriends who talk about "real men." There is always some huge waste of time and effort lurking after a statement like that. If it comes up again, I think I will claim fake manhood.

A "real" Debian user seems to fly in the face of open source philosophy. Microsoft and crew are the ones creating financial, legal and social exclusivity and demands on the user. I'd hope Debian would be about contribution on the part of the individual for the better of individuals.

If that means starting threads about ineptness, that may result in insight or discussion for all, you are a Debianite in my book. If that means fumbling along cluelessly and bragging about Debian to friends and associates, my hat is off to you, Debianite!

Getting the harder-to-use tool when you have other priorities in life is a brave thing to do.

I went to open source, avoiding even the "non-free" distros, because I was tired of access equalling my ability to pay, pay, pay
to an organization that treated me like dirt,
in return for something that wasn't mine,
while being told how much I didn't know,
while being told how much I shouldn't know,
while being told what programs to use.
.
There is no telling what an individual may contribute over time. There certainly are more ways to contribute than just proving oneself technically.

Fear the consequences of an organization "of the people" that becomes exclusive. What could the best case scenario be?

[flipjargendy]

I've been using Linux for years and LOVE IT! The fact all distros are open source, you can change it to your needs, free and so widely used, so powerful... so powerful.... I love it. I've only been using Debian and Debian based distributions for about two years or more. I've lost count by now. I like the idea you have going here. I am still learning, I've never taken classes on Linux or any other classes that would really help me in the Linux world anymore then the Microsoft world.

The work of the developers is something I appreciate very much. The fact that they put together this operating system and are always working on making sure it is compatible with current hardware as well as technilogically ancient hardware continues to leave me inspired to use and promote their work.

I'd like to say thank you to Debian as well.

[Issyer]

In response to RickH's

Rickh is a nice guy. I like his way of thinking. He wants to cultivate some discipline in the community. You all are fake users, if don't understand why Linux is better than anything else.

[EMD]

In response to RickH's

Rickh is a nice guy.

I agree. What I disagree with is elitism. Sometimes I get the impression that he and many other members of this forum think that newbies can learn the "Debian Way" in a day.

How can you expect someone with less than a year's experience with GNU/Linux to understand how to do a minimal install, how to use apt-get/aptitude, etc.? With patience and proper instruction they will learn, but learning takes time.
.

[souneedalink]

With patience and proper instruction they will learn

only if they have a desire to learn...aka real debian user

[Jackiebrown]

What I disagree with is elitism. Sometimes I get the impression that he and many other members of this forum think that newbies can learn the "Debian Way" in a day.

The issue is that many are unwilling to learn the Debian Way.

It used to be that people used linux and they believed in the openness that it stood for.

Now we have crap threads with windows people that do not value what has made linux suceed where other OS's have failed. They seem to see open software as a "nice idea" but not a terribly important one.

[EMD]

The issue is that many are unwilling to learn the Debian Way.

It used to be that people used linux and they believed in the openness that it stood for.

Now we have crap threads with windows people that do not value what has made linux suceed where other OS's have failed. They seem to see open software as a "nice idea" but not a terribly important one.

I never thought of it that way, but I do see your point. Thank you.

My statement about the Debian Social Contract would have been stronger had I not just done my Federal and State Income Tax returns with proprietary software.

I use Free and Open Source Software whenever possible, but there are a few occasions when it simply is not possible. That's not a criticism. There are many occasions when it simply is not possible to use MS Windows to accomplish a task, e.g. memory-intensive data analysis.

The unfortunate reality is that 95% of the population uses proprietary software with a handful of Free and Open Source Software applications. I'd prefer to see 95% of the population use GNU/Linux (or BSD) with a handful of proprietary programs. We'd certainly feel less surrounded!

[craigevil]

This whole real "Debian user" crap sounds like something straight from #debian. Most users will never need to learn all the things the debian gurus know, Install it, install video drivers, multimedia codecs+apps and they are good to go.

Your distribution may be based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it unlikely lives up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>) i guess debian policy is a set of rules giving policy requirements for the Debian GNU/Linux distribution. http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy

[Issyer]

What I disagree with is elitism.

Maybe it is elitism in a way. I have rubbed a lot of people on this forum to believe that that attitude is based on the loneliness. That's why they come here to find some friends to share their thought and ideas with.

[rickh]

I do not believe there is an "elitist" bone in my body. I don't expect newbies to know much of anything, and does not mean they shouldn't use Debian. My position is that people who do not recognize and appreciate the things that make Debian unique should not be using it. There should never be an attitude among Debian Users that it needs to be "dumbed down" to attract more non-techie users. The people who will be most satisfied with Debian are the ones who are willing to take a suggestion, then study and learn more about it their own rather than simply returning with the next question that pops into their mind.

I could name a dozen or so "fake" Debian users here whose questions over an extended period of time have never evolved above a very elementary level. Sometimes they send me PMs wanting answers to their silly questions which I ignore as easily has I would any question they ask on the public forums. They (and we) would all be better off if they used Linspire or Xandros, and paid for the kind of incompetent support that would drive them quickly back to Windows. Instead, since they were able to get Debian installed, they come here expecting that we should fall over ourselves at the honor of partaking in "chat session style" hand-holding support for them.

My position regarding "real" Debian users, has nothing to do with how much they know about Debian, and everything to do with their attitude about it. The Debian Organization and system is head and shoulders above any other Linux distribution (with a nod to the obvious quality of RedHat and Slackware), and it's users should appreciate that fact.