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Thoughts on Ubuntu

Here you can discuss every aspect of Debian. Note: not for support requests!
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gabriel
Posts: 73
Joined: 2005-04-17 23:14
Location: Poland - Warsaw

#21 Post by gabriel »

Xianuro wrote:All of you already told why Ubuntu exist:
- More up to date packages
- More user friendly
- Better support for newbies

Debian has been very closed to this things.
Debian is easy, sweet, stable and simply wonderful. Ubuntu simply has better PR.
Imho the problem is not with the system itself, but with information on the net. Trust me, some people would LOVE to use linux, but they are scared.

I see potential in such sites like "debian planet" or any other - where all info could be put in a nutshell - without any technical-talk, that really scares some people. Believe me - my younger sister, who can't really tell a monitor from a pc uses debian easily. My friend (a girl) used debian easily, and she had trouble telling a hard drive from a sound card and generally knew how to start IE6 and get to google.pl.

If you keep saying that Debian is hard, more people will believe it :)
The only thing - slow update (which is a thing I don't really care about).

I used Ubuntu twice - and was two times dissapointed and frustrated. It was supposed to be straight out of the box wonder, but it turned out to be more demanding than Mepis or Mandrake.
When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth

Mike
Posts: 57
Joined: 2005-11-16 19:12
Location: Sunshine Coast, BC

#22 Post by Mike »

I tried Ubuntu, Kbuntu and finally settled on Debian/testing. The testing branch is up to date enough for me. I can always install some packages from unstable as the need comes up too.

After much searching I finally settled on a distro!

UKer
Posts: 5
Joined: 2005-09-26 17:53

#23 Post by UKer »

I found there are quite a few packages I use (i.e. Gallery 2, latest MAME and many more) that weren't in the Ubuntu repos, and more importantly that the system was preconfigured with packages I didn't want, I prefer the control of setting up packages as I want, not having a pre-configured selection.

For newbies, it's great and is far more inviting than normal Debian. I personally don't find Debian hard to administer at all though, but that could be through using Linux at work and home for a few years.

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ben
Posts: 45
Joined: 2005-09-21 21:28
Location: Massachusetts
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#24 Post by ben »

Debian suites me better. I like installing Stable and then upgrading to Unstable, and never having to worry about new releases every 6 months. Just run it until it breaks beyond repair, which isn't very often. Ubuntu is very nice, easpecially for new users who just want to get up and running without to much configuration, but for advanced users, I find Debian to be better suited. There's also a shitload more packages available for vanilla Debian than there is for Ubuntu. Standard .deb packages aren't guaranteed to work with Ubuntu, which sucks.

gabriel
Posts: 73
Joined: 2005-04-17 23:14
Location: Poland - Warsaw

#25 Post by gabriel »

Doesn't Debian benefit from Ubuntu's rapid development? Or Mepis for example? Ubuntu is free, open etc after all.
When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth

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AdrianTM
Posts: 2499
Joined: 2004-09-19 01:08

#26 Post by AdrianTM »

Debian benefits from Ubuntu
Ubuntu benefits from Debian

I think it's a win-win situation. I know that some people would say: why not pour those money and effort directly into Debian. I don't think it's possible, democracy in software has it's benefits but it's not something that I'd associate with fast releases (remember how much time it took for Sarge to be launched). Beside that's a personal decision, we don't get to vote on how Mr. Shuttleworth spends his money.

BTW, I like Kubuntu more because I like KDE. I was disappointed at the beginning for the lack of KDE support.
Ubuntu hate is a mental derangement.

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jsmidt
Posts: 33
Joined: 2005-11-20 05:37
Location: Provo, UT

#27 Post by jsmidt »

I run both Ubuntu and Debian. My only compliant with Debian vs. Ubuntu is everything I try in Ubuntu works immeadiatly whereas there are some things I still can't get to work in Debian. However I like the Debian philosophies better. I like a democratic community and the fact Debian is all volunteers. I personally hope Ubuntu will attract more volunteers to work on the Debian project.

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domecq
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Posts: 549
Joined: 2005-10-18 00:53
Location: Montréal, Canada

#28 Post by domecq »

It's a nice work. And a proof of how good Debian is.

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bohu
Posts: 83
Joined: 2005-12-27 22:35
Location: Southwest Missouri, near Branson
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Ubuntu cheats?

#29 Post by bohu »

I read on another forum that Ubuntu uses dishonest methods to appear as number one on distrowatch. But no one specified exactly what they are doing. Does anyone here know?
---------- NRA certified pistol instructor, linux advocate, bookworm, pitbull enthusiast ----------

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AdrianTM
Posts: 2499
Joined: 2004-09-19 01:08

#30 Post by AdrianTM »

The Virus wrote:
odin wrote:Just 3 words can solve it
And only two with debian

$ su
password:
#
Have you ever heard of
$ sudo -s
password:
#
Bashing Ubuntu for sudo is kind of silly.
Ubuntu hate is a mental derangement.

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AdrianTM
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Joined: 2004-09-19 01:08

#31 Post by AdrianTM »

I think it's just rumors, never heard anything substantial. I was wondering too, but I doubt that's the case, by now it would have been outrage if that would have been true and proven.
Ubuntu hate is a mental derangement.

adssse
Posts: 71
Joined: 2006-01-17 05:36

#32 Post by adssse »

I really like both Debian and Ubuntu. I have Debian running on an old pc and a laptop and Ubuntu running on another laptop. As a fairly new linux user I like ubuntu because most everything worked right away for me so I am able to go on to using it for what I need to get done. Debian to me is great because I have so much control. I do a net install and from there it is up to me what I want to install. I am becoming addicted. :D

Lavene
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Location: Oslo, Norway

#33 Post by Lavene »

I've used only Debian based distros except for som experimenta installs of some RPM based distros which I never liked. I started out with Libranet, but left it when they released a new version that cost a fortune. Then I tried Ubuntu and instantly hated it for several reasons such as the use of sudo... And I find the entire Ubuntu philosophy somewhat erie. So I moved to Kanotix which was great in many ways but based on sid is had a nasty habbit of braking something if you needed to upgrade.

What is strange is that all those communities kept warning me about going for pure Debian. "It's so hard to install", "There is no support", "The Debian community is rude and eliteist" etc etc. But I decided to give it a go anyway... and the rest is history. All three machines we have at home is now running pure Debian.

And I think that it's the myth about the 'impossible Debian' that partly keeps Ubuntu so popular. Ok, it IS easy to install and easy to use for noobs that only want to surf the net and read mail. But if you want to connect it to your network, or use it as a printerserver etc you quickly see that 'easy' is a relative term...

Tina

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dawgie
Posts: 430
Joined: 2004-06-16 21:30
Location: New Hampshire USA

#34 Post by dawgie »

Lavene wrote: What is strange is that all those communities kept warning me about going for pure Debian. "It's so hard to install", "There is no support", "The Debian community is rude and eliteist"
I have always found the opposite true about the community. When I first installed Potato, I got lots of help on IRC. Yeah, there are some rude people and trolls, but there are in almost any community. It is somewhat true that "you get what you are looking for".
Lavene wrote: And I think that it's the myth about the 'impossible Debian' that partly keeps Ubuntu so popular.
And giving away CDs for free!
I'd like to see Debian Project to get a cash infusion of $10mil.

There are lots of benefits for users from the Ubuntu project not just deb package development, but from the community. Look at the user documentation:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation

It is not very difficult to install Ubuntu and then upgrade to sid. It may be the easiest route to an unstable install.

AFA the popularity, I seem to remember when Knoppix was ahead of everything else and was touted as the easiest way to install Debian. Time will tell if any commercial distros will be based on Ubuntu.

Tina, my brother-in-law was from Hafslo.

pony-tail
Posts: 24
Joined: 2005-09-30 19:13
Location: Brisbane QLD. Au

#35 Post by pony-tail »

I just downloaded Kubuntu "dapper" and installed it on my spare machine.
A Pentium 4 2.8ghz machine with 1gig of ram.
the mobo is a P4C800-E and the video card is a GF5600.
so although it is not the fastest it is not slow either .
The first issue was that it detects the onboard promise controller as the first drive.
every other distro I have tried on this machine detects the Intel controller as the first.
Even Desktop BSD..
Second issue was that KDE crashed every time I closed Firefox.
This is a testing version of Kubuntu but even so it has a long way to go.
Kubuntu has been removed and "sid" is being reinstalled with KDE 3.5
Do not even mention the sudo cr*p
NOT FOR ME
Since Libranet folded I have been looking for a new Distro.
So far I have liked Gentoo - but it is to time consuming to install and maintain !
I actually have a life.
I like Mepis but it is a bit too lite (quick and easy to instal though)
I like Debian but "etch" is a little flakey "sid" seems to run better.
I hated Fedora (nuff said)
Kubuntu no way.

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AdrianTM
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Joined: 2004-09-19 01:08

#36 Post by AdrianTM »

I just downloaded Kubuntu "dapper"
Dapper is "Alpha" , is not even "Beta" -- commenting on Alpha products is silly, useless, non-productive and not fair.

You should not use an Alpha (in developement) product, period.
Ubuntu hate is a mental derangement.

pony-tail
Posts: 24
Joined: 2005-09-30 19:13
Location: Brisbane QLD. Au

#37 Post by pony-tail »

If you would notice I am comparing Development versions of Debian to dapper
"apples to apples" plus if I recall dapper flight 4 ia at the upstream freeze stage which is
further along its cycle than etch and it is supposed to be ready in a few weeks.
and 5.10 was worse - I have to note that the system in my previous post is my oldest system
so some issues on my hardware are likely (they all work with on sid and gentoo) and no problems with mepis .
Kubuntu / ubuntu is worth my keeping an eye on but there are quite a few thing I dislike about
it.
Every distro is good for some one and some purpose - there is no one size fits all.
I am just saying that -- I -- do not like it - further I would rather use SuSe which is RPM based,
and I do not use it anymore either.

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AdrianTM
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Joined: 2004-09-19 01:08

#38 Post by AdrianTM »

Is not fair to talk about crashes on forums when you talk about Alpha products. That's usually solved in final products.
Do not even mention the sudo cr*p
NOT FOR ME
There nothing wrong with sudo, if you want to use root you can always type "sudo -s" and you have the root prompt. If you don't know that is not fair to blame somebody else then yourself.
Ubuntu hate is a mental derangement.

pony-tail
Posts: 24
Joined: 2005-09-30 19:13
Location: Brisbane QLD. Au

#39 Post by pony-tail »

I actually did (code) sudo passwd root
5.10 was just as flakey. and that is the release version
You like it - I hate it lets just leaveit at that.

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AdrianTM
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Joined: 2004-09-19 01:08

#40 Post by AdrianTM »

pony-tail wrote:You like it - I hate it lets just leaveit at that.
I didn't say anywhere that I like it, I don't use Kubuntu although I tried the last release (not alpha) and it worked just fine at least on my hardware -- no crashes while I tried it.
Ubuntu hate is a mental derangement.

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