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How do you explain to your gramps what a kernel is?

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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jtodd
Posts: 457
Joined: 2008-06-04 01:24
Location: Michigan

#21 Post by jtodd »

dannybuntu wrote:Thanks everyone. I think I get the idea.

-There's the machine.
-There's the kernel.
-There's the OS.
-The kernel is a component of the OS.
-The kernel is like the traffic guy with orange neon.
-The applications, software, etc that is not the kernel - like for example the GIMP, are the cars or the pedestrians.

:wink:
Perfect. :)
Debian GNU/Linux Sid | Intel Celeron 2.2GHz | 224mb RAM | 27GB HD | 320GB Ext. HD | dwm

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edbarx
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#22 Post by edbarx »

The kernel is the operating system. In fact, a kernel plus a shell make a computer usable.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.

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FolkTheory
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#23 Post by FolkTheory »

edbarx wrote:The kernel is the operating system. In fact, a kernel plus a shell make a computer usable.
OMG the GNU people will cut off your neck beard and burn you at the stake.
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edbarx
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#24 Post by edbarx »

FolkTheory wrote:OMG the GNU people will cut off your neck beard and burn you at the stake.
No problem Sir, provided you keep the ashes! :lol:
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.

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katofiad
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Joined: 2006-11-06 09:41

#25 Post by katofiad »

edbarx wrote:The kernel is the operating system. In fact, a kernel plus a shell make a computer usable.
FolkTheory wrote:OMG the GNU people will cut off your neck beard and burn you at the stake.
Not only the GNU people, but other sensible software engineers as well. A single binary does not an operating system make. The best description of an OS is the complete design paradigm, including, but not limited to, mechanisms implemented in a kernel program. The programs that are absolutely vital to generate a functioning GNU/Linux operating system, in order of importance, are as follows:
  • The GNU C Libraries
  • The GNU Compiler Collection (specifically the C compiler)
  • The Linux Kernel
You could have a working _copy_ of an operating system without the compiler, but you could not even have that without the C libraries and a few utilities (like a shell). The kernel could not exist at all without the C libraries (before or after compilation). And a complete operating system could not have been designed, written, and built without at least these three things (and a text editor). If you do not believe me, attempt to build only the kernel and a shell without a compiler or C libraries, then install them all by themselves on bare metal and get back to me when you've finished (and it works).

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edbarx
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#26 Post by edbarx »

MS-DOS was an operating system and it was usable with a minimum of these files:
  • msdos.sys
  • io.sys
  • command.com [the shell/interpreter]
As far as I know, there were no essential libraries.

In the case of Linux, provided one avoids the complexity of init, a kernel plus a shell should be enough logically.

Here, I am assuming a barely minimalist system i.e. kernel + shell. That should in principle work, provided that at the end of the kernel's initialisation phase, a call is made to look for a shell and load it.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.

dannybuntu
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#27 Post by dannybuntu »

You guys are great thanks!

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saulgoode
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#28 Post by saulgoode »

edbarx wrote:That should in principle work, provided that at the end of the kernel's initialisation phase, a call is made to look for a shell and load it.
Not just in principle. You can pass "init=/bin/bash" to the kernel (at the LILO prompt or by editing GRUB) and avoid all runlevel scripts.

Offtopic: this technique provides access to the root account without requiring a password. If you wish to protect your system from this vulnerability, you should enable password protection in LILO or GRUB (whichever one you use).
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -- Brian Kernighan

ChristofferC
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Location: Linköping, Sweden

#29 Post by ChristofferC »

I don't understand why I should. Why would they want to know?
Shaw's Principle: Build a system that even a fool can use, and only a fool will want to use it.

Ay
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#30 Post by Ay »

When I need to simplify it a lot, I usually just say that it's the piece of software that communicates between all the hardware on the computer, and the software. People usually understand that.

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Jackiebrown
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#31 Post by Jackiebrown »

I wouldn't

DrumScum
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#32 Post by DrumScum »

katofiad wrote:A single binary does not an operating system make.
Said Yoda?
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