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Ideas for separation of "base system"

User discussion about Debian Development, Debian Project News and Announcements. Not for support questions.
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digthemdeep
Posts: 4
Joined: 2008-08-04 23:02

#41 Post by digthemdeep »

rickh wrote: I saw one person up there (who at least understands "Stable"), waxing enthusiastic about how few bugs there are in Stable. Might interest him to know that there are even fewer in Testing.
Is this what you mean?
http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/

To some extent my opinion was formed by the FAQ...
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debia ... .html#s3.1
Last edited by digthemdeep on 2008-08-07 22:26, edited 1 time in total.

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rickh
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Location: Albuquerque, NM USA

#42 Post by rickh »

AdrianTM wrote:Of course not.
Good ol'AdrianTM, always eager to show his ignorance.

Release Critical Bugs
Number concerning the current stable release: 823
Number concerning the next release: 378
Debian-Lenny/Sid 32/64
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97

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AdrianTM
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Joined: 2004-09-19 01:08

#43 Post by AdrianTM »

rickh wrote:
AdrianTM wrote:Of course not.
Good ol'AdrianTM, always eager to show his ignorance.

Release Critical Bugs
Number concerning the current stable release: 823
Number concerning the next release: 378
Good ol'Rickh not being able to understand things even when they are explained step-by-step like for morons.
Ubuntu hate is a mental derangement.

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BioTube
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#44 Post by BioTube »

ciol wrote:There is stability and stability.
For a game, do you need to wait for the backports?
If you say "I like my games to be stable too", just don't upgrade if it works, and even if you upgrade and that it does not work, downgrade.
For instance openarena (not in Debian but whatever), has a new version incompatible when you play online with older versions.
Another example, Amsn. Amsn in Etch is too old. I know some people who can't connect.
Here is what the website of amsn says:

It is important for you to update, because this version also fixes a critical bug that prevents a lot of our users from connecting to the MSN network. This is caused by a recent change in the protocol from the MSN server which made aMSN unable to connect to the network...


There is no backports in backports.org.

Another example is ion. Ion is for advanced users, Debian does not need to maintain it as if it was the kernel.

Again, I just say that not everything need to be frozen.

Maybe Debian can stay with this development model, I don't think so, but at least make backports.org official, it will prove that Debian cares about its users.
Did you know that you are free to compile programs from source? Just install build-essential and compile away(checkinstall can be used to manage the installed file with dpkg/apt).
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Ludwig von Mises wrote:The elite should be supreme by virtue of persuasion, not by the assistance of firing squads.

Ay
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#45 Post by Ay »

BioTube wrote:(checkinstall can be used to manage the installed file with dpkg/apt).
Oh God...not this argument again...

Also, as for people who want stability:

How about a small business that has people working in an office with several workstations? Those desktop systems need to be rock solid to maintain productivity. Windows could be a problem due to cost. So wouldn't Debian be a good choice there? I think it would be. Situations like that, and for important servers.

ciol
Posts: 28
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#46 Post by ciol »

Ay wrote: How about a small business that has people working in an office with several workstations? Those desktop systems need to be rock solid to maintain productivity. Windows could be a problem due to cost. So wouldn't Debian be a good choice there? I think it would be. Situations like that, and for important servers.
1) Those small enterprises have money (they had Windows before right?). It's very hard for Debian (lack of man power), to do what Red Hat does.

2) The main point is there. Since it's very difficult for Debian to release, Debian should not release *everything* as -stable. Do the small enterprises and servers need ion? Games? I don't think so. You can even chose to freeze only either KDE or Gnome. Only pidgin and not aMSN, etc.


Comment: When I edit my posts, it's only to fix English mistakes.

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BioTube
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#47 Post by BioTube »

But why? Plenty of desktop users go with Etch.
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Ludwig von Mises wrote:The elite should be supreme by virtue of persuasion, not by the assistance of firing squads.

ciol
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#48 Post by ciol »

Plenty of desktop users want to kill themselves when they notice the lost potential of Debian.

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Telemachus
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#49 Post by Telemachus »

As exciting as all this wonderful debate is, somebody should tell the OP: this isn't an "official" Debian forum. Very few Debian developers seem to hang out here. We're just users. Even if you convince all of us that your plan is perfect, nothing will happen.

If you want to make an official wish-list request, do it on a Debian developer mailing list.
"We have not been faced with the need to satisfy someone else's requirements, and for this freedom we are grateful."
Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, The UNIX Time-Sharing System

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AdrianTM
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#50 Post by AdrianTM »

Telemachus wrote:If you want to make an official wish-list request, do it on a Debian developer mailing list.
Good point.

I'm also weary of people who come up with great ideas about "how to fix Linux" or "how to improve Debian". Usually people who work on Linux, Debian, etc are pretty smart and take the decisions being more informed about goes on and what's possible or not.

There's always this type of guy who comes on Linux forums and accuses everybody that they are blind that they don't see that Linux could be great only if... this discussion is pretty similar, "Debian would be great, if..." however most of the proposed ideas are good and many times they go exactly against of spirit of the thing they are supposed to fix. For example in this case making Debian less stable.
Ubuntu hate is a mental derangement.

ciol
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#51 Post by ciol »

Telemachus wrote: If you want to make an official wish-list request, do it on a Debian developer mailing list.
Nobody will listen and you will find the old same arguments: "use testing", "stable is stable period".
Furthermore, there is already a wiki page about this: http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseProposals
Of course, this is useless. We all know nothing changed and nothing will change.

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AdrianTM
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#52 Post by AdrianTM »

ciol wrote:
Telemachus wrote: If you want to make an official wish-list request, do it on a Debian developer mailing list.
Nobody will listen and you will find the old same arguments: "use testing", "stable is stable period".
Furthermore, there is already a wiki page about this: http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseProposals
Of course, this is useless. We all know nothing changed and nothing will change.
So, then, why do you make the request here? Do you like to blow hot air? In a way I understand you, I do too 8) but seriously, what do you try to accomplish if you already know that nobody will listen and you already know the responses you are going to get?
Ubuntu hate is a mental derangement.

ciol
Posts: 28
Joined: 2006-10-27 20:24

#53 Post by ciol »

There is still a hope... A random DD, a random night...
If only Debian listened to me, it would be the end of Microsoft, because a lot more of people would use Debian and contribute. Really. I would.

Burnside
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Location: Bend, OR

#54 Post by Burnside »

You know you are free to create a derivative distro if you want. You seem pretty passionate about the idea, why not make your own?

ciol
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Joined: 2006-10-27 20:24

#55 Post by ciol »

You know you are free to create a derivative distro if you want. You seem pretty passionate about the idea, why not make your own?
I think I will.
I already found a distro which nearly looks like what I'm looking for: http://lapwing.org/

Quote:
It doesn't use the current development model of "freezing" packages for a release; the core packages (such as glibc, GCC, UDEV etc) are frozen to ensure stability, but all packages "above" this are renewed as and when needed.
But I think the base should have at least xorg.
I have several others ideas too. So it's far to be perfect.

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