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GUI VS Terminal

Here you can discuss every aspect of Debian. Note: not for support requests!

Which editing method would you use?

GUI / Windowed interface
11
19%
Terminal session
46
81%
 
Total votes: 57

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KOTAPAKA
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#21 Post by KOTAPAKA »

I wanted to be a terminal hardcore guy (not that I new how to do everything so I had to resolve to GUI). However during the last 1-2 years I have seen that it all comes to productivity. Doesn't matter how you do something - what matters is how much of it you can do in a given period. When you are given a task employers don't care how you do it - they want you to be fast and efficient and of course come with a good result. What's better - to learn 1000 commands + 99999999 options that come along with the commands or get better in your area of expertise?

I still prefer CLI though - just don't use it cause I don't have time to learn everything.
Debian Lenny "stable"

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Issyer
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#22 Post by Issyer »

KOTAPAKA wrote:I still prefer CLI though - just don't use it cause I don't have time to learn everything.
You don't have to use that crap that goes from the repos. Have you ever seen html/xhtml link checker including named anchors on separate pages check, URL extractor, orphan files finder and site map builder, all in one, on Linux? I wrote one in Python.

Lou
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#23 Post by Lou »

anarchyinc666 wrote:I am afraid most of you missed my point, there was no point. Just a topic based on the idea that Linux users prefer to use terminals rather than the GUI.
The next time you can't enter your X system, you will need to know how to edit with the CLI, no other way.

As you mature linux-wise, you will memorize most things thru repetition, life will be easier, you will lose your Windows mentality. It's not what "linux users" like to use, it's what's faster and safe, "looks" will go out the window, you will be submerged in a different environment in which all your past values will be forgotten and despised as remnants of a wasted phase of your past life.

Wow! panama-red is the best :)
Devuan Jessie - IceWM - vimperator - no DM
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid

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pl@yer
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#24 Post by pl@yer »

Lou wrote: Wow! panama-red is the best :)
BC Skunk all the way :P

edit: as for "cli vs gui tools" I agree that cli is best.
Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

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hellfire[bg]
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#25 Post by hellfire[bg] »

Is it just me or are 90% of the answers and steps to linux issues in terminal format rather than GUI?
The reason for this is because noone knows exactly which desktop environment (if any) are you using. Things are done differently in KDE, GNOME and XFCE. Not to mention that there are some distro specific giu tools for doing the system administration - like SuSe`s YAST, Fedora`s system-config, amd Mandriva`s whatever they use. So the easiest and most universal way of explaining is via the command line.

As for me for most of the tasks i prefer using gui tools (fortunately GNOME`s gui tools cover most of my tools) but some things are just easier done through the command line. So i just use whatever i feel is more convenient - sometimes this is the gui sometimes it is the command line.
...to boldly go where no one has gone before...

Mr B
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#26 Post by Mr B »

Maybe some of the preference comes down to if you are a "visual" person or "verbal" - so that some people will always feel more comfortable with a gui as opposed to cli; For myself I find gui aps easier to learn (or learn the "route" to a solution) than a string of cli stuff (partly because I don't know what most of it means (yet). That being said I do use cli for more and more stuff and it is fascinating to learn what is actual happening behind the gui front ends ( and of course there are times when it is a "life saver" as discussed previously).

As an illustration of the "visual" nature of how I use gui stuff I have managed to confuse myself several times when I have played about with icon themes etc and found that the different "look" means that I have to think twice about what I am doing.......

GUI or CLI - errr.........BOTH!!

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edbarx
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#27 Post by edbarx »

The power of the CLI lies in its simplicity. A shell need not be complicated, it only needs to display text rather than elaborate graphics. This means, that in the case of system breakdown, the CLI is the tool of choice. It is not because it is faster or simpler, but because, it is simple to run and its power is unlimited. A Windows user can use recovery console, but that, compared to the Linux shell, is like a six month old!
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.

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anarchyinc666
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#28 Post by anarchyinc666 »

Lou wrote:
The next time you can't enter your X system, you will need to know how to edit with the CLI, no other way.
That has already happened, (My 3yr old "helped daddy fix the pooter" again) took me about an hour and a half to fix but I was back up and running. It is not like I don't know how to use the term, it's just faster for me to do most menial tasks without it. Sometimes the term is faster for me, sometimes GUI. Depends on what I am doing.

The thing I had in mind when I was making this post was someone had a simple question on a different forum awhile back. One reply had about 3 paragraphs of code and this was directed at someone using linux for like a week. I looked at it and thought to myself, all you have to do is open this window and uncheck this box. (obviously I have already forgotten what the question even was it was so simple) I think the guy ended up giving up and switched back to windows.
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d- s: a- C++++ UL++++ P+ L+++ E-- W+++ N- o-- K- w++
O- M-- V-- PS+++ PE+++ Y PGP+++ t-- 5-- X+++ R* tv+++ b DI++++ D
G e+ h---- r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Debian-SID Xfce

jshipley84
Posts: 16
Joined: 2008-10-14 21:48

#29 Post by jshipley84 »

Issyer wrote:
stoffepojken wrote:Emacs is the crap
Agree. I switched to jEdit. There's a nicer editor called EditRocket. When I become rich, I will purchase a copy. :lol:
I think you misunderstood...

Emacs is crap: emacs is horrible, nobody should use it.
Emacs is the crap: emacs is awesome, nothing else compares.

I agree though, emacs is great.
Good ol' C-x M-c M-butterfly

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Issyer
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#30 Post by Issyer »

jshipley84 wrote:
Issyer wrote:
stoffepojken wrote:Emacs is the crap
Agree. I switched to jEdit. There's a nicer editor called EditRocket. When I become rich, I will purchase a copy. :lol:
I think you misunderstood...

Emacs is crap: emacs is horrible, nobody should use it.
Emacs is the crap: emacs is awesome, nothing else compares.

I agree though, emacs is great.
Good ol' C-x M-c M-butterfly
I think I'm OK. Emacs is great in text mode. Plain syntax highlighting is not quite enough.

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ro
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#31 Post by ro »

Mr B wrote:Maybe some of the preference comes down to if you are a "visual" person or "verbal" - so that some people will always feel more comfortable with a gui as opposed to cli; For myself I find gui aps easier to learn (or learn the "route" to a solution) than a string of cli stuff (partly because I don't know what most of it means (yet). That being said I do use cli for more and more stuff and it is fascinating to learn what is actual happening behind the gui front ends ( and of course there are times when it is a "life saver" as discussed previously).

As an illustration of the "visual" nature of how I use gui stuff I have managed to confuse myself several times when I have played about with icon themes etc and found that the different "look" means that I have to think twice about what I am doing.......

GUI or CLI - errr.........BOTH!!
I agree fully. I too am a visual thinker and conceptualizer and prefer a gui. It's why I can remember many configuration manoeuvres from Mandriva 10, like editing grub (or lilo or whatever it was) even though I haven't used it for years, while I tend to have to refer to notes for Debian.
edbarx wrote:The power of the CLI lies in its simplicity. A shell need not be complicated, it only needs to display text rather than elaborate graphics. This means, that in the case of system breakdown, the CLI is the tool of choice. It is not because it is faster or simpler, but because, it is simple to run and its power is unlimited. A Windows user can use recovery console, but that, compared to the Linux shell, is like a six month old!
Oh, we understand - it's just that some of us find CLI counterintuitive and much harder to use. It's a matter of neurology...

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ro
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#32 Post by ro »

I forgot to add that I haven't voted because the poll reeks of stupid elitism.

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edbarx
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#33 Post by edbarx »

ro wrote:
edbarx wrote:The power of the CLI lies in its simplicity. A shell need not be complicated, it only needs to display text rather than elaborate graphics. This means, that in the case of system breakdown, the CLI is the tool of choice. It is not because it is faster or simpler, but because, it is simple to run and its power is unlimited. A Windows user can use recovery console, but that, compared to the Linux shell, is like a six month old!
Oh, we understand - it's just that some of us find CLI counterintuitive and much harder to use. It's a matter of neurology...
Neurons have nothing to do with the CLI and GUIs can be counter-intuitive too! Designing a powerful intuitive GUI is not at all straightforward. And by the way, who told you that I am against GUIs? For your information, I use kde. I am defending the CLI, because, its power in case of system breakdown, is almost total. You can do everything without the interference of a complex desktop. That is what I mean by "simplicity". I am far from boasting that the CLI is simple in terms of remembering commands. This can also be said about human languages: no one learns to speak in a couple of days! The reason is that language is a complex ability. The same applies to commands of the CLI. The good news are, that unlike MS Windows, the commands are conservative, that is, they do not change unnecessarily. :)
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.

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ro
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#34 Post by ro »

Uh, where did I say you were against GUIs? I'm pretty sure I only said that some of us find them easier to get around than CLI. I know they add complexity that can cause things to go pop as much as I know the power and elegance of the CLI. I know the CLI is indispensable at times. I had to use it when I lost my desktops temporarily to a bug a few months ago.

I just wish I had the sort of brain that finds CLI easy. Neurology IS important because it determines one's reaction to stimuli. I feel it's a plausible reason why some users take well to the CLI. I remember things very much better if I have a picture. Maybe it's a matter of practice... :?

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edbarx
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#35 Post by edbarx »

I misunderstood you. Please, excuse my misunderstanding. :oops:
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.

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ro
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Location: New Zealand

#36 Post by ro »

That's OK - I'm famous for doing the same :lol:

DtW
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#37 Post by DtW »

I don't care to vote but I'll describe my environment instead: KDE + Emacs + Iceweasel + XTerm (with screen). These are the ones you can see all the time on my two-monitor desktop. Of course I use other applications too but others are more like temporary tools.

I guess my point is that "GUI or CLI" is not very interesting question. With Linux I think most people use both. More interesting question is what kind of working environments people build for themselves.

Lou
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#38 Post by Lou »

Maybe i don't see the gui/CLI problem clearly, to me speed and simplicity is the core of my preference towards the CLI.

Say you want to edit a file, (/etc/apt/sources.list) a file that is common and that you have to edit in Debian at least once in order to configure what you want.

So you launch a gui editor, gedit, conkeror or whatever, you hit the icon and presto you got it.
I press F1 in icewm or F6+c in ratpoison and get the terminal, by the time you reach for your mouse and find the icon, i got you beaten.

Now you have to write the file you want to edit in the gui <name of file>, same in the cli (nano -wx <name of file>, same speed, now you're in the file editing. You save/exit from both. Seems to me the only difference is how you launch the editor.

Now if for some reason once you launch debian and there is a problem entering the X system, you CANNOT launch a gui editor, what are you gonna do?

What if you don't know the address of the file you're looking (your neurons are shot to hell), you launch your editor and use 'locate' or 'find', simple, no?

$ nano locate sources

what so mind bogling about this?
I think it's psychological, the fear to abandon something you learn in Windows.

Of course this is all my opinion, and with it and a quarter you can buy a cup of coffee down here.
Last edited by Lou on 2008-11-07 15:28, edited 1 time in total.
Devuan Jessie - IceWM - vimperator - no DM
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid

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anarchyinc666
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#39 Post by anarchyinc666 »

Wow, now I feel a lot better. For the longest time I thought that Linux users had a stereotype were they refused to use windows in preferance of the more intimidating command line interface. You all have let me see the light. It is all just a matter of personal preferance, what you are more comfortable with and how fast one can do what needs to be done.

Almost every reply has been the same, we all use both. Thanks for showing me that the stereotype is nothing more than a stereotype.

Now, can someone tell me how to remove that gay poll?
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d- s: a- C++++ UL++++ P+ L+++ E-- W+++ N- o-- K- w++
O- M-- V-- PS+++ PE+++ Y PGP+++ t-- 5-- X+++ R* tv+++ b DI++++ D
G e+ h---- r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Debian-SID Xfce

Mikuro
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#40 Post by Mikuro »

Text editing may seem like the classic CLI-friendly task, but I look at it from the other direction: A GUI text editor is basically just the same, but with some advantages that come with the mouse and menus. Like Lou said, the difference is not so much with the app as with the way of accessing the app. I frequently use the command line to launch GUI programs (including GUI text editors). Does that make me a GUI fan or a CLI fan?

I think it points to flaws in the design of individual GUIs, but not the GUI in general.

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