Newbe mostly familiar with Fedora

[Steelaworkn]

I have been trying various Linux distros for an older system. I found that Debian seems to install and function the best. So, as far as working from the command line, Fedora uses yum and rpm. What is the protocol for Debian?

[milomak]

debian uses deb packages and apt or aptitude. it is advised once you choose one of apt or aptitude, you stick with it.

[Steelaworkn]

A little more info would be helpful please. I am a newbe you know.
I have noticed the Debian system does not like to adjust for dependencies. If it can't figure it out, which seems too often, it just decides to just give up. What's up with that?

For instance, I'm trying to install cups and the thing just quits when it discovers dependies are needed. Do I have to install everything line by line?

[4D696B65]

To install cups

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aptitude install cups

It may be you sources.list has a problem. Show us the output of

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cat /etc/apt/sources.list

[Steelaworkn]

There are dependancies that will not be resolved. What packages do I need to have installed? All I have is the base Debian packages. How where do I look for extra packages and how do I get them on my system?

[milomak]

Post your /etc/apt/sources.list here as suggested above.

if it is configured correctly and you have a working internet connection then you should have no issue with install a package such as cups.

[nadir]

there has been a link once that mixing aptitude and apt-get ain`t no big deal no more.
as i can`t find it, perhaps someone may confirm that or has got the link?
(i don`t say that it is usefull to mix it, like some do, just that it ain`t written in stone)

synaptic is a graphical tool to install packages, cli is good and honorable, but to search for packages synaptic is cool. imo.
if you ain`t got it installed install it (btw: you allready have got a gui?)

as said by the others: first post your sources.list, something is wrong. usually resolving the dependencies works like a charme. automatically.

[smallchange]

Have you run

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aptitude update

to update the db of available packages? You might need -f (--fix-missing) or full-upgrade instead of upgrade. It is likely that after updating

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aptitude -f full-upgrade

will fix the problems. It will tell you what it is going to do. Look carefully at that to see if it wants to uninstall something you want.

[Steelaworkn]

Post your /etc/apt/sources.list here as suggested above.

if it is configured correctly and you have a working internet connection then you should have no issue with install a package such as cups.

This is my cat /etc/apt/sources.list run off. Looks pretty skinny to me. This is after I ran the "aptitude -f full-upgrade" and "aptitude install cups".

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eff@dadinator:~$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list
#
# deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.3 _Lenny_ - Official i386 kde-CD Binary-1 20090905-09:27]/ lenny main

deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.3 _Lenny_ - Official i386 kde-CD Binary-1 20090905-09:27]/ lenny main

deb http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main

deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main
deb-src http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main
jeff@dadinator:~$

[4D696B65]

Add the following line to your list.

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deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main contrib non-free

then

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aptitude update

edit You can exchange lenny for stable. Also comment out the cd line.

[Steelaworkn]

I have tried to get the deb package you suggested be I'm not sure what the correct protocol is. I have tried various ways, but I'm having trouble with finding clear documentation on this.

[mdevour]

I have tried to get the deb package you suggested be I'm not sure what the correct protocol is. I have tried various ways, but I'm having trouble with finding clear documentation on this.

Hi Steel,

I can tell you're about as lost as I've felt at times. No problem, it'll be better soon.

To help you, we'll need a little more information than you've given us yet. Answer the questions and don't make any assumptions about what we know about your setup, okay?

Right now, what do you have? I see from your sources.list that you're trying to install Lenny, the current Debian Stable branch, with the KDE desktop.

How did the install go? Are you logging in to a graphical environment (KDE) or are you stuck at a black screen with white text on it and a command prompt? Big difference with what it's going to take to get you on track... so let us know in your next post, please.

FIRST JOB is to make sure your /etc/apt/sources.list is right. The package management system depends on it. Installing packages should be easy and dependencies dealt with invisibly and completely, and you shouldn't give up until that's what you've got.

We need to get you into an editor to change sources.list. If I knew what your environment is like I could streamline this a little, but for now I'm going with what should work no matter what. You may already know how to do most of what I'm going to talk you through, but until we know more I'm going to be very basic...

If you're in a graphical environment (KDE) you need to open a terminal window. I think it's called Konsole. I don't use KDE, so I don't know the menus or icons. Poke around in the menus until you find it. When it runs you should have a window onto a text-based command line interface. As soon as you're at the command line and see a prompt ( jeff@dadinator:~$ ) we're good.

Next we're going to elevate your priveleges to that of the root administrator. Type the following command at the prompt and type in your root password when prompted:

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su

You should be back at the prompt, but now the last character, the $, has changed to a #. That's to remind you you're now the root user. Also the stuff before the # will probably be different, too, something like dadinator:/home/jeff#

Now lets navigate to the right directory, make a backup copy of your current sources.list, and then open it in an editor:

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cd /etc/apt/

The prompt should change to reflect that you're in the /etc/apt directory now.

Next:

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cp sources.list sources.list.old
nano /etc/apt/sources.list

Okay, we're now in nano, a "friendly" little text-based editor. You can't use your mouse; you move the blinking block cursor around with the arrow, home, end and pgup/pgdn keys. The menu at the bottom of the page lists the commands, the ^ meaning that you hold down the Ctrl key and then the letter.

So, poke around here until your sources.list looks like the following:

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#deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.3 _Lenny_ - Official i386 kde-CD Binary-1 20090905-09:27]/ lenny main

deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free

deb http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main

deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main
deb-src http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main

Notice I've made sure you only have one copy of the deb cdrom line, and that it's commented out with the # at the beginning of the line. If your installation is basically complete, there should be no need for anything more that came on the CD, and you will want to always get the most recent versions from the online repositories.

Next, I've added the two lines for the primary Lenny repositories, deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ lenny. The fact that that was missing is probably the sole source of your problem. WHY it was missing would be nice to figure out. You shouldn't have been left in that state by the installer.

Okay, once you've got everything tweaked, hit ctrl-X, then Y, <Enter> to accept the filename to save to, and you should be back at the prompt.

Now that the most important repository is in your sources.list where it's supposed to be, we need to update your local list of packages that are available. To do that, type:

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aptitude update

A bunch of stuff will scroll by, ending with "Reading package lists... Done." If you're doing this in Konsole, you'll be able to use the up and down arrows and pgup/pgdn keys to scroll back through the stuff that went off the top of the window. Read the output carefully. It might give you some warnings or errors, but probably not. If anything looks too scary, let us know.

Next, let's bring your system into synch with the current versions of everything:

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aptitude -f full-upgrade

It will do some thinking, then give you a list of everything it wants to do, and waits for you to tell it to go ahead. Read that output carefully, in case it wants to do strange things like uninstall huge swaths of your system. Old things being replaced by new, a few not needed any more, no problem. The messages can be cryptic but should be understandable.

If it looks good, tell it to go ahead. When it's done, you should be good to go, finally! Now you can get back to trying to install cups.

Type exit to leave superuser mode, then exit again to close the terminal window.

Assuming you're in a working KDE environment, you should get familiar with Kpackage, if you aren't already. That's the graphical interface to the package management system. You can continue to use the console and aptitude, if you're more comfortable with that. Me, I'm a pointy-clicky guy by preference.

If things don't go as expected, stop and let us know exactly what's happening. Don't forget to give us a clear picture of the situation, including the environment you're operating in, etc.

You shouldn't have run into a problem like this. Package management is one of Debian's best features and normally works fabulously. But, all is not lost. Having to deal with this gives you a chance to get comfortable with fixing things. If you're like me and can't leave stuff alone, that's a pretty valuable ability.

Good luck, Jeff.

Mike D.

[milomak]

That's service with a smile from Mike.

[Steelaworkn]

I'll give it a try and get back to you. Right now I have Debian on Virtual Box. My VB specs are:
256mb of ram
64mb of Video (can expand that if needed)
8 gs of Dynamicall expanded hd space

Everything installed right away, but it is reacting the same way physical machine is.

My physical machine is as follows
Asus PIII (don't remember what the board is)
Around 500 mgs of ram
256 Nvidia Geoforce 6500 (I think that's it, pretty close anyway)
800mhz PIII processor
Dual booting to Windows XP Home addition

Windows is on a 20g hd
Debian is on the 40g hd.
These are physical drives

I have a network printer Hp Officjet Pro L7580.

Both Debian 5 systems are using the KDE desktop environment. Both are having the same issues as far as packaging.

Long story short, I'll run the stuff you suggest and see where that leads me.

[Steelaworkn]

Thanks Mike. I've finish running it. I some duplicates. I pretty much trashed the whole file, copied and pasted your script, saved, did the update and upgrade and installed cups. Everything ran really smooth and now I'm going over to set up the printer. After your overhall script, Debian handled all the dependencies with out so much as a flinch. Samba even set up.

I'll probably reboot before I do anything else. I'll let you know if the printer sets up smooth.

By the way, is that the best bethod to tell the system what packages to pull from?

Update: I set up the Asus and everything works. I set up hplip from Debian repos. It works.

[milomak]

the way debian is setup is such that any package you install from the official repos will have its dependencies within the official repos, So if you are running stable, you should not run into dependency issues.

[Steelaworkn]

So, I installed cups but my printer is not on the list. Now I am install hplip. Ummm, hplip is not in the Debian repos is it? I know it's in the Fedora Repos. Anyways, it's installing fine with no hick-ups. Oh, and I install VB Guest Additions. There's a lot let to do in Debian than in Fedora for that set up.

Right now I am setting up the VB Debian. When I get it right, I set up my Asus. I'm really wanting a Web Server/Desktop, that's why I'm using the old Asus. I'm still learning. I love Fedora, but Debian is the only Linux I could get on that old Asus asside from Puppy. I tried 3 different versions of Fedora 12, Puppy, Open Solaris (which went on just fine but was really slow), and then Debian. Debian was loaded fine, edited the master boot record, and allows me to dual boot. The only issue, as you know, was the deb files were screwed up.

Any ways. Hplip is still loading on DebianVB. We'll see how that goes.

[milomak]

hplip is avialable in lenny. The below shows that v2.8.6 is available. Should be installable with aptitude install hplip.

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$ apt-cache policy hplip
hplip:
<snip>
     2.8.6.b-4 0
        500 http://debian.mirror.ac.za lenny/main Packages

[Steelaworkn]

Ok, thanks. I ended up having to reinstall Debian in VB. I installed Hplip and all the files went right to the desktop. Any way, I reinstalled Lenny, follow the instructions and did aptitude install hplip. Seems to be working. We'll see if it can detect my printer.

[mdevour]

Great going, Jeff. I'm glad you've had a chance to see Debian package management doing what it's supposed to. Now...

Right now I have Debian on Virtual Box.
Everything installed right away, but it is reacting the same way physical machine is.
...
Both Debian 5 systems are using the KDE desktop environment. Both are having the same issues as far as packaging.

This is really weird. Is it possible there's a bug in the installer that's leaving sources.list broken? That would be really strange at this point, given Lenny was released months ago.

Who's really snappy with the Debian Bug Tracking System? Wanna do a search?

You downloaded the Lenny w/KDE ia386 binary CD1 iso and burned it, right? I wonder if others can duplicate the problem.

By the way, is that the best method to tell the system what packages to pull from?

The Debian project maintains repositories that contain everything that is part of Debian. In fact, they have a full set of repositories for each of several versions of Debian: Experimental (not a complete distro), Unstable (named Sid), Testing (named Squeeze), Stable (Lenny), and Oldstable (Etch). They also have servers from which you can download the many different versions of the installation disk iso's.

All or most of the above are duplicated over a hundred times by mirror sites around the world. You might say Debian is prepared to survive Armageddon.

There are several different front-ends to the packaging system, but every one of them works with libapt on the back-end, and libapt depends on this sources.list file being right. Editing it by hand is one way to maintain it, and pretty bullet-proof.

In the Gnome desktop (which I use), there is a Software Sources applet in the System>Adminstration menu which lets you make and modify your mirror and repository selections. Synaptic is a complete GUI based package manager (a front-end to libapt, again) that also lets you manage software sources. I'm not KDE-fluent, but I'm under the impressions there's something called kpackage that's part of kdeutils that also provides a graphical front end to package management and software source configuration.

So, in short, there are several different ways to manage your sources.list. Hand editing is the least-common-denominator approach that will work when nothing else does. Some folks find it faster and more certain than dealing with a GUI. I've done it both ways; edit with nano, and both Synaptic and Gnome's GUI widgets.

It seems like, unless we're able to fix the problem, you're going to have to do your install and then fix sources.list before you can do your initial updates and start installing things. That's not really all that bad, since tweaking sources.list right after install is a pretty routine thing to do. I usually do the vanilla install, then add backports and multimedia repos, and that's it until I'm ready to upgrade to the next release! You're just doing a little more than you should have to.

Anyway, it sounds like your Fedora experience has made you comfortable with a lot of what needs to get done. The most confusing thing will be recognizing when those skills are going to screw things up because Debian is different!

Let us know what happens next! Good luck...

Mike D.