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HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

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TristanDee
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#61 Post by TristanDee »

Is this thread dead for god's sake? The last post is five-months old!
It has been a useful place for things related to xorg.

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Bro.Tiag
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#62 Post by Bro.Tiag »

TristanDee wrote:Is this thread dead for god's sake? The last post is five-months old!
It has been a useful place for things related to xorg.
Nope, I'd say it's still relevant. Some bit's and pieces may be dated for testing & unstable, but for stable it still applies.

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#63 Post by TristanDee »

Bro.Tiag wrote:Some bit's and pieces may be dated for testing
Yep, most discussions seem to be for Etch although most people perhaps run Lenny/Sid.

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#64 Post by Bro.Tiag »

TristanDee wrote:
Bro.Tiag wrote:Some bit's and pieces may be dated for testing
Yep, most discussions seem to be for Etch although most people perhaps run Lenny/Sid.
Aye, but the original post is still relevant for installing the X Window System and a Desktop Environment. The only real issue is screen resolution, which is dealt with in another thread.

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sir fer
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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#65 Post by sir fer »

this thread is awesome...opened up a whole 'nuther avenue of experimentation for me...trying e17 and IceWM as sole DEs funZ0rs galore >< haha :mrgreen:

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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#66 Post by jjmac »

Anything to do with X, whether it's compiling,installing, configuration --- is always a useful document/thread. Regardless if the particular post has a distro specific or generic concern.

The modularisation of X src in later versions has certainly made life a lot easier with regard to that too, imo.


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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#67 Post by dbbolton »

Usually I just install the driver for my video card and utils, and let apt drag in the dependencies. One of those meta-packages depends on the exceptionally ugly meta-package xserver-xorg-video-all, and I absolutely don't want that. Same thing with input: only need kbd, mouse, and evdev.
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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#68 Post by jjmac »

Hello all,

Firstly, sorry about the anal tone of my last post (above) :) .
It sounds kind of wierd to me on reading it back (grin).

In any case ...

dbbolton wrote:
>>
Usually I just install the driver for my video card and utils, and let apt drag in the dependencies. One of those meta-packages depends on the exceptionally ugly meta-package xserver-xorg-video-all, and I absolutely don't want that. Same thing with input: only need kbd, mouse, and evdev.
>>
Yes, 'xserver-xorg-video-all' is a right pain ... But that's X for you. Such as ...
'xserver-xorg-video-all' says that it can be removed, but 'xserver-xorg' has it listed as a dependency.

One way to get around those things is by creating a customised meta package with out all the cruft. But including things that may be useful.

The irony there is that in order to know just what may be included that could be useful, involves a dload. After having looked up the file list.

I like to think that this 'jumping through hoops' syndrome that seems to be a built in to the packaging system, does actually have purpose :). Such as, in a case like this, at least it helps prevent trivial mucking around. As good as deb is, its' openness to customisation does also allow for its' overall configuration to be easily screwed up by someone fiddling through their root account. And then trying to blame deb for the result. So i guess we must just have to live with these 'hoops' for the time being --- unless someone can think of a better way to have both worlds available.

Now, is that a new thread cue or what :)


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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#69 Post by canci »

x-server-video-all is a pain?

Sorry if I got something wrong, but, after stripping X down to what my laptop really needs,
I got 10,5 MB of free space. Hmm... Isn't this nitpicking?
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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#70 Post by dbbolton »

canci wrote:x-server-video-all is a pain?

Sorry if I got something wrong, but, after stripping X down to what my laptop really needs,
I got 10,5 MB of free space. Hmm... Isn't this nitpicking?
If you really don't care about hard disk space or bandwidth, then yes, it is nitpicking. If you have a small hard drive-- say, 6 GB-- then 10 MB is kind of significant. And if you have a slow internet connection, downloading a few megabytes of debs that you don't have any conceivable use for during an upgrade is pretty wasteful too.
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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#71 Post by jjmac »

Howdy All,

Yep, that's exactly it. I'm on dial up and while it is cheap, it's also slow.
And now that X is modularised i find i can indulge myself more with it.


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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#72 Post by canci »

@jjmac: Are you aware that, Debian Stable at least, is available on CD/DVD by vendors in your country?

http://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/#au

I don't know their prices, but when I didn't have Internet, I ordered Debian Etch on 3 DVDs from our national
Linux user group for about 10€. This would probably be more expensive in Australia, but Linux user groups
also have "office hours" sometimes, so if you happen to be around one, you can sometimes just drop by
and kindly ask them to burn distros to your own DVDs for no or a very minimal charge.
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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#73 Post by jjmac »

Howdy canci,


A bit delayed but, in any case, thanks for your suggestion. It is the logical route to go for dial up folks like myself, of course. But ... i like to hack in to my system and build/rebuild things myself where ever i can. And, when it comes to X ... a person will experience a noticeable performance improvement with a local (cpu specific) build, compared to a binary install. It will just utilise the facilities of the processor more fully than a general purpose pre-build. Hybrid systems are 'where it's at' though, so to speak.

And since X has been modularised, which has been for quite some time now, it has been much easier to achive. I do use the commercially provided cd/dvd route for initial installs though, as per your suggestion. As it has made that initial stage much easier to deal with, and only necessary rarely.

:)


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Somebody stole my air guitar, It happened just the other day,
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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#74 Post by jjmac »

canci wrote:
>>
x-server-video-all is a pain?

Sorry if I got something wrong, but, after stripping X down to what my laptop really needs,
I got 10,5 MB of free space. Hmm... Isn't this nitpicking?
>>

Nope, that's not nitpicking at all. That's one of the things that deb, open source and other Unix like systems are all about. And made so much more easier with Xes modularity.

Why have drivers installed for every card ever made when a person may only need a couple. To cover the card they use, and possibly a backup card which may be different. It's like lugging around a giant too-box, full of every tool ever made for every truck ever made and trying to crame it all into the boot (grin). Well ... kinda :)

Where as, just fetching the three file pkg source set, or raw upstream source with the .dsc, diff.gz and working that ... and building locally, makes it an easy work round. And a much lighter system.


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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#75 Post by canci »

Actually, though I forgot about this post, I, too, tend to slim down my install as much as possible. The extra megs are not needed ATM, but who knows...
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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#76 Post by Ibidem »

jjmac wrote:Hello all,

Firstly, sorry about the anal tone of my last post (above) :) .
It sounds kind of wierd to me on reading it back (grin).

In any case ...

dbbolton wrote:
>>
Usually I just install the driver for my video card and utils, and let apt drag in the dependencies. One of those meta-packages depends on the exceptionally ugly meta-package xserver-xorg-video-all, and I absolutely don't want that. Same thing with input: only need kbd, mouse, and evdev.
>>
Yes, 'xserver-xorg-video-all' is a right pain ... But that's X for you. Such as ...
'xserver-xorg-video-all' says that it can be removed, but 'xserver-xorg' has it listed as a dependency.

One way to get around those things is by creating a customised meta package with out all the cruft. But including things that may be useful.
xserver-xorg is a metapackage, meant to get X working (on any computer)
It depends on xserver-xorg-video-all, or a virtual package that every X driver provides.
The minimum is xinit and an X server (xserver-xorg-core or xserver-xfbdev), with xserver-xorg-core needing at least evdev and a video driver. evdev can handle mouse and keyboard, if I recall correctly; xfbdev doesn't need drivers, besides a working kernel framebuffer (which isn't always available...)
Besides that you'll need at least one client, preferably a window manager and terminal.
I have set X up like this, from a bare minimum install.
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ubungeeek
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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#77 Post by ubungeeek »

Ibidem wrote:evdev can handle mouse and keyboard, if I recall correctly; xfbdev doesn't need drivers, besides a working kernel framebuffer (which isn't always available...)
You're right about the mouse and keyboard. But one thing I didn't understand - does kernel framework need drivers or not?
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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#78 Post by Ibidem »

ubungeeek wrote: You're right about the mouse and keyboard. But one thing I didn't understand - does kernel framework need drivers or not?
Not sure I follow the question.
Do you mean to ask whether you need kernel drivers as well as the X drivers, or X drivers as well as the kernel drivers?

If so, yes. But the kernel drivers are built into the stock kernel.
The kernel must have drivers for most peripherals you plan to use (excepting those with libusb, FUSE, or CUSE drivers, or raw access like a graphics card used by a VM--which isn't the standard configuration). In the case of proprietary drivers, these are provided by the *-dkms, *-kernel-(*-)source, or *-source packages (fglrx-dkms, fglrx-source, nvidia-kernel-legacy-96xx-source...)

X needs its own drivers to use the devices. These drivers won't work properly unless the kernel drivers are loaded and working (except, the fglrx X driver can do 2d graphics without the kernel module).

If you want to use Mesa, you also need a mesa (gl) driver. These are included in the Mesa packaging. Proprietary drivers require their own glx library, using the kernel and X drivers that are bundled with them.

Does that confuse things more for you? :roll:
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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#79 Post by suttiwit »

Here is my setup:
I installed Debian Wheezy 7 from the first DVD without selecting "Desktop environment" at tasksel because I wanted to install MATE as my desktop environment.
So, here is what I did once I logged in (as root):
1. Add 'wheezy backports' to /etc/apt/sources.list:

Code: Select all

deb http://http.debian.net/debian wheezy-backports main
2. Run

Code: Select all

apt-get update
3. Install xorg

Code: Select all

apt-get install xorg
4. Install MATE

Code: Select all

apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-extras
5. Log out of root and get back to normal user
6. Let X start automatically after login without typing 'startx' on every login

Code: Select all

echo "startx" >> ~/.profile
That's it! Once X is started, it looks like the good old GNOME 2 :)

BhooshanAJ
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Re: HOWTO: Install X Window System and a Desktop Environment

#80 Post by BhooshanAJ »

Can this guide be still conisdered goood for installing a minimal GNOME desktop? Here's what I was thinknig..

Install the necessary Debian Package without choosing any DE at tasksel. Start it up bare bones. Set the sources.list to testing

Code: Select all

apt install linux-headers-$(uname -r)
apt install xorg
apt install gnome-core
apt install gdm3 (redundant?)
Will this get me on a fairly bare bones GNOME desktop that I can later customize as I wish?
Do I need to explicitly nvidia drivers?
Will this possibly run me into those "Oh no! Something went wrong!" errors?

Also have OpenBox in mind if this can't be done. But I will not do a full GNOME install from Live CD or anything. It has too many things I never use.

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