Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

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Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby JohnDeere630 » 2011-02-03 04:02

Just wanted to add this in defense of the forum mods. I was not banned for my post here , although since I lost my temper and submitted a post which was clearly against the forum rules, a ban would clearly have been warranted. I am posting this only because I don't want the mods to get any grief on my behalf. My nemesis was, however, apparently banned for at least 2 weeks. My sense of justice has been restored. However, this does not excuse my own behavior and I apologize to the other forum members. :oops:

After a bit of soul-searching, I decided that anyone who gets so upset over such foolishness needs to get a life...so I went out to clear the 14" of new-fallen snow in my driveway and promptly, and possibly a bit ironically, blew one of the final drives out of my beloved John Deere 630. So now, in the next 2 weeks of my self-imposed exile, I will have something very real to concern myself with. I just hope I don't have to replace the 300 lb. bull-gear ($2,100). I know the bull gear pinion is shot ($350) :(
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby Pick2 » 2011-02-03 07:04

I felt the EXACT same way about that situation JD. I had a little self control I'd been saving up , used it All , and then some :lol:
Sorry to hear about the Tractor.
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby cynwulf1 » 2011-02-03 08:39

I'm glad to hear you weren't banned - I on the other hand received what appears to be a 1 month ban without explanation and the post I made was deleted. I have a good idea of which mod it was that awarded me the ban - this was probably the same mod that let nomko continue unchecked for several hours afterwards...

To be clear, my offence was in referring to this idiot as a "spoilt demanding prick" or something of the sort. I stand by those words because that's exactly what he is. I've seen him called worse here before, as far as I know, no one was banned,

I'm utterly disgusted that the laughably transparent troll tactics he was using, fooled even a moderator here. It was already bad enough that people have been replying to his inane questions with serious technical answers. It is obvious to me and many others that this chap has been trolling in order to "prove" his point since joining last year.

I used to enjoy these forums, if this is how it's going to be then I'm not sure if I want to stick around. If I wanted to endure this kind of treatment I could go off to the butnut forums.
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby Hallvor » 2011-02-03 09:30

cynwulf gets banned for one month, while nomko (for all his trolling since he joined in October) gets banned for a mere two weeks - after a mod jumps in to defend him and deletes posts of users calling him a troll. Well done!
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby nadir » 2011-02-03 09:37

cynwulf is banned for a months?
cynwulf? The one who always gives a hand to people?
This are questions, i ain't got no idea what is going on. I am out for now.

Shame on you.

----------
I am part of the group which has got access to the beginners-guide-"place." I am finished with the things i did, make it linkable, for a long time. I don't work on it anymore (at least not here)
Please take care of that, remove me from that group or whatever. I got access to some funny pages (yabba-moderators-yabba), which i don't want. I can't guarantee anything.
I did say this, and have done what is necessary. If you, the so called staff, take care of it or not, is none of my business.
I guess nadir is gone.
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby eric1959 » 2011-02-03 11:03

Hallvor wrote:cynwulf gets banned for one month, while nomko (for all his trolling since he joined in October) gets banned for a mere two weeks - after a mod jumps in to defend him and deletes posts of users calling him a troll. Well done!



Image

Why do these things happen....?
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby cynwulf1 » 2011-02-03 12:31

nadir wrote:cynwulf is banned for a months?

Hallvor wrote:cynwulf gets banned for one month

I'm banned until: 2011-03-02 14:58

Being an anglo-euro type I read that as "YYYY-MM-DD"

But I know our yank friends have some weird ways of writing the date so perhaps it's "YYYY-DD-MM" and I'm only banned for a day - until nearly 3 o'clock? Regardless of this, I emailed the admin for some explanation yesterday as instructed on the "banned" page and have heard nothing back yet. I also PM'd an admin earlier today and have still heard nothing.
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby Mr James » 2011-02-03 12:44

I somehow doubt it's only for a day. But I'm pessimistic (realistic) like that...
Also, thanks for saying what I and probably many others wanted to say and taking the heat for it.
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby thunderogg » 2011-02-03 12:44

@cynwulf1: According to the post, you joined: 2011-02-03.
Supposing they use the same date format everywhere, you're banned for a month. :shock:
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby cynwulf1 » 2011-02-03 12:51

Mr James wrote:Also, thanks for saying what I and probably many others wanted to say and taking the heat for it.

Always glad to oblige.
thunderogg wrote:@cynwulf1: According to the post, you joined: 2011-02-03.
Supposing they use the same date format everywhere, you're banned for a month. :shock:

Yep, that's what I thought as well...

So that's "justice"... was some "new boy" mod desperate to try out his new leet powers and I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? That's how it seems to me.

The likes of Nadir leaving does not bode well for the future of this place. See you all in a month+ (they will probably take great pleasure in extending my ban for registering an alt) maybe.
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby saulgoode » 2011-02-03 13:14

cynwulf1 wrote:To be clear, my offence was in referring to this idiot as a "spoilt demanding prick" or something of the sort. I stand by those words because that's exactly what he is. I've seen him called worse here before, as far as I know, no one was banned,

As far as I know, nobody was banned specifically for calling Nomko names, though there have been bans issued for such remarks directed at other members -- including a ban issued to Nomko himself. I am not aware that public announcements of warnings and bannings are mandated, and it is questionable whether such are even appropriate; however, I also am willing stand by my decisions as a moderator of these forums and do not wish to hide any of my actions behind a veil of secrecy.

cynwulf1 wrote:I'm utterly disgusted that the laughably transparent troll tactics he was using, fooled even a moderator here. It was already bad enough that people have been replying to his inane questions with serious technical answers. It is obvious to me and many others that this chap has been trolling in order to "prove" his point since joining last year.

That some members are offering "serious technical answers" suggests not everybody necessarily agrees with your assessment that the questions are inane, or at least they feel that a direct technical response is a reasonable and productive manner of disposing of the issue. Still others may feel that a productive response is not to reply to the question at all, or to report the post to the forum staff as being disruptive. These members are just as much part of this community as you and the "many others" of which you speak.

Even if the original question is by any and all standards to be considered "inane", that still does not grant license to you or anyone else to post base insults and derogations directed at the original poster. Such behavior is at least as disruptive to the forums as the original post, and perhaps worse as it particularly hinders the staff's ability to bring quick and impartial resolution to the situation.

As far as I'm concerned, it is just as much a moderator's duty to address inappropriate reactionary posts as it is to address the posts that instigated them. I do not view that as "defending" the instigator, but as defending the goals of these forums and representing the interests of the entire community. Certainly who incited whom in such exchanges plays a role in how such situations should be addressed -- and the staff has shown a great deal of tolerance in this regard -- but behavior which interferes with the purpose of these forums should always be considered inappropriate.

cynwulf1 wrote:I used to enjoy these forums, if this is how it's going to be then I'm not sure if I want to stick around. If I wanted to endure this kind of treatment I could go off to the butnut forums.

If I may offer a bit of explanation for the disparity in treatment between yourself and JohnDeere630 under pretty much similar circumstances. It is true that both of your postings contained insults and language that I would consider unacceptable to these forums; I would even say that JohnDeere630's language was far worse than yours. The difference which to me was striking is that JohnDeere630 recognized that he was out of line whereas in your post you asserted that you would continue making such posts as long as nomko still continued to post his "idiotic questions".

Perhaps I read too much into a turn of a phrase but if you truly do not see that your own abusive, profane reactionary postings are just as disruptive to these forums as some inane, idiotic question then there is a disagreement between us I can not reconcile. I will not bear having to deal with pages of inflammatory, insulting, and profane postings every time somebody poses a stupid question.

As a resolution to these differences, I will submit a request to the forum administrators to lift your ban, along with my resignation as a moderator of these forums. To borrow JohnDeere630's colorful phraseology, "My give-a-crap-o-meter is reading pretty near zero at this point."
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby neddie » 2011-02-03 13:40

For what it's worth, I agree with nomko's original post that the atmosphere in here has changed recently, definitely for the worse, but I really don't know what the solution is.
Certainly it seems banning people is no deterrent whatsoever, particularly if they're allowed to immediately reregister and continue abusing the mods and insulting other people. And banning that person hasn't discouraged the other jump-in-and-insulters either, or the posting of inane pictures.
Definitely submitting proposals to lift someone's ban is the wrong idea, that just encourages banned people to continue arguing about it in the hope of a retraction.
On some forums they have intricate and complex "reputation" rules where users give each other points for usefulness - I'm sure that's overkill here and I'm not suggesting it be implemented here but maybe some way of encouraging sensible input is needed.
Just my 2p.
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby cynwulf1 » 2011-02-03 14:03

saulgoode wrote:These members are just as much part of this community as you and the "many others" of which you speak.

We're all adults here, the holier than thou approach won't achieve much among us. A moderator over at the butnut forums could probably use this approach and be successful - here, I doubt it.

"These members" - we're talking one member. One particular member that is not actually part of this community at all - he has an account, but he's here to troll it. As a result of his actions and yours some of those that are "part of this community" have been alienated. That's not a good result. Maybe some of us were in the wrong, but the troll should have been dealt with first and the rest of us later.

saulgoode wrote:Even if the original question is by any and all standards to be considered "inane", that still does not grant license to you or anyone else to post base insults and derogations directed at the original poster. Such behavior is at least as disruptive to the forums as the original post, and perhaps worse as it particularly hinders the staff's ability to bring quick and an impartial resolution to the situation.

You have a point, but when people are attacked or disrespected they will respond. People like nomko's posts will always draw a response (that's what trolling is all about), so trying to educate people not to respond is pretty pointless. This chap has been rude since he first arrived. From his first thread it was obvious what we were dealing with. I posted one "base insult", I don't recall posting any others? I'm not sure why you're trying to make out that I have a history of this?

saulgoode wrote:As far as I'm concerned, it is just as much a moderator's duty to address inappropriate reactionary posts as it is to address the posts that instigated them. I do not view that as "defending" the instigator, but as defending the goals of these forums and representing the interests of the entire community. Certainly who incited whom in such exchanges plays a role in how such situations should be addressed -- and the staff has shown a great deal of tolerance in this regard -- but behavior which interferes with the purpose of these forums should always be considered inappropriate.

Regardless of how you may view it, your actions were perceived as defending the "instigator". If I got a 1 month ban, the instigator should get quite a bit more. Instead he was allowed to continue posting and celebrating another member's departure as a "victory".

saulgoode wrote:If I may offer a bit of explanation for the disparity in treatment between yourself and JohnDeere630 under pretty much similar circumstances. It is true that both of your postings contained insults and language that I would consider unacceptable to these forums; I would even say that JohnDeere630's language was far worse than yours. The difference which to me was striking is that JohnDeere630 recognized that he was out of line whereas in your post you asserted that you would continue making such posts as long as nomko still continued to post his "idiotic questions".

I'm glad JohnDeere630 wasn't banned, as he said that which needed to be said and I fully support what he said. Sometimes people need to be told - otherwise this place will just turn into another "fluffy" forums where everyone agrees, sucks up the staff and counts beans. nomko was only politely told to "rtfm" when it was warranted. He ignored this, read no documentation, became abusive, used bad language, sent insulting PM's and then began trolling to try and prove his point. My offences were those few facepalm images and that one post - which I get a one month ban for.

saulgoode wrote:Perhaps I read too much into a turn of a phrase but if you truly do not see that your own abusive, profane reactionary postings are just as disruptive to these forums as some inane, idiotic question then there is a disagreement between us I can not reconcile. I will not bear having to deal with pages of inflammatory, insulting, and profane postings every time somebody poses a stupid question.

To say you read to much into that turn of phrase would be an understatement... So where are you getting these plural "abusive, profane reactionary postings" from? From where I'm standing it's you making a big deal of this to justify the disproportionate ban you've awarded me with.

saulgoode wrote:As a resolution to these differences, I will submit a request to the forum administrators to lift your ban, along with my resignation as a moderator of these forums.

I think we both know what the outcome of that will be..?

neddie wrote:For what it's worth, I agree with nomko's original post that the atmosphere in here has changed recently, definitely for the worse, but I really don't know what the solution is.

The atmosphere changed when nomko registered and only affects the threads he posts in.
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Re: Justice was served, an apology to the forum members

Postby Mez » 2011-02-03 15:00

There is no need for further discussion over this matter.
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