To All Dear Mods, Admins, etc

[hkoster1]

I've kept myself far from all the stuff that's been going on here, preferring to ignore many posts rather
than react to them. I believe that one of the problems here is the enormous amount of "chat" going on
outside the Offtopic section. Look for example at participants racking up thousands of posts in just a
single year -- no need to mention names here, they know who they are. At least 80% of such posts are
just idle chat, I don't know why so many people think this forum is the place for that. I'm with the late
RickH who used to say "I don't do chat".

So, my suggestion for improvement: less chat, and then only in Offtopic.

Thank you for listening.

[Mez]

I've kept myself far from all the stuff that's been going on here, preferring to ignore many posts rather
than react to them. I believe that one of the problems here is the enormous amount of "chat" going on
outside the Offtopic section. Look for example at participants racking up thousands of posts in just a
single year -- no need to mention names here, they know who they are. At least 80% of such posts are
just idle chat, I don't know why so many people think this forum is the place for that. I'm with the late
RickH who used to say "I don't do chat".

So, my suggestion for improvement: less chat, and then only in Offtopic.

Thank you for listening.

If a topic doesn't seem relevant to the section it's in, or peters out into idle chit-chat, feel free to "Report" the topic, then, it can either be moved to the relevant place, or the conversation parts can be split out and moved to a new thread in off-topic.

[JohnDeere630]

If I may make a suggestion...it appears to me that one of the factors exacerbating the latest furor is ambiguity; it appeared to us regular members like warnings and bans were handed out willy-nilly. I know that there were a lot of PMs & other stuff going on that most of us didn't know about, and that by itself is fine; what is said in private conversations is just that. However, when it comes to public sanctions, I think that rather than have a bunch of subforums and extra work for the mods, why not have the relevant mod insert a couple of lines right into the post in question: For example in this post, Saulgood could just add something like: "administrative board warning issued for profanity and personal attack". That way anyone that was interested could see immediately cause and effect, and those who are not interested won't have to deal with it at all.

@hkoster1...I understand your comment about some people making thousands of irrelevant posts a year, and I agree somewhat, although to be honest, I have contributed a few myself However, speaking only for myself, if this forum's rules change to disallow any but strictly technical content, it would be insufferably boring....as I said before, for better or worse, this is a community of very disparate personalities. If we were all strict conformists, we wouldn't be here anyway. Just my 2 cents..

[oOarthurOo]

If I may make a suggestion...it appears to me that one of the factors exacerbating the latest furor is ambiguity; it appeared to us regular members like warnings and bans were handed out willy-nilly. I know that there were a lot of PMs & other stuff going on that most of us didn't know about, and that by itself is fine; what is said in private conversations is just that. However, when it comes to public sanctions, I think that rather than have a bunch of subforums and extra work for the mods, why not have the relevant mod insert a couple of lines right into the post in question: For example in this post, Saulgood could just add something like: "administrative board warning issued for profanity and personal attack". That way anyone that was interested could see immediately cause and effect, and those who are not interested won't have to deal with it at all.

+1. Much simpler than creating separate forums, and contibutes towards increased transparancy without compromising privacy or drastically increasing mod/admin workload and/or liklihood of flamebaiting.

[JohnDeere630]

If I may make a suggestion...it appears to me that one of the factors exacerbating the latest furor is ambiguity; it appeared to us regular members like warnings and bans were handed out willy-nilly. I know that there were a lot of PMs & other stuff going on that most of us didn't know about, and that by itself is fine; what is said in private conversations is just that. However, when it comes to public sanctions, I think that rather than have a bunch of subforums and extra work for the mods, why not have the relevant mod insert a couple of lines right into the post in question: For example in this post, Saulgood could just add something like: "administrative board warning issued for profanity and personal attack". That way anyone that was interested could see immediately cause and effect, and those who are not interested won't have to deal with it at all.

+1. Much simpler than creating separate forums, and contibutes towards increased transparancy without compromising privacy or drastically increasing mod/admin workload and/or liklihood of flamebaiting.

@0OarthurOo: thanks!

I also wanted to mention mods editing/deleting posts...I doubt anyone would have a problem with a mod editing out really bad cuss words and religious blasphemies, but I do not agree with anyone other than the originator of a post deleting it. Having a bunch of "missing" posts really obfuscates things, and really fuels the conspiracy theorists.

[mdevour]

Mez,

First off, thanks for keeping the lights on.

It would be best to make very clear what the admins/mods want the members to do. Saulgoode's observation that only one member ever reported nomko's behavior before people started piling on illustrates the need for this.

Unless I misread things, part of what we're dealing with is the desire of some members to discipline or criticize other members, whether newbies or trolls, and it is the staff's desire that dealing with such issues be reserved to it. Is this right?

If so, that needs to be stated very clearly: It's the members' job to report misbehavior and disruptive attitudes, and the staff's job to deal with them, behind the scenes if possible, or with clear administrative comments within the offending messages.

There is nothing wrong with this approach, if that's really what you're trying to achieve. Most of the best forums I've encountered run that way.

Gaining the cooperation and understanding of the members can only help. Not all will choose to understand or cooperate, but I believe most will, if the intention is clear and consistently applied.

Mike D.

[JohnDeere630]

If so, that needs to be stated very clearly: It's the members' job to report misbehavior and disruptive attitudes, and the staff's job to deal with them, behind the scenes if possible, or with clear administrative comments within the offending messages.

Gaining the cooperation and understanding of the members can only help. Not all will choose to understand or cooperate, but I believe most will, if the intention is clear and consistently applied.

Mike D.

+1....Clear, concise, and to the point

[edbarx]

I repeat my thanks to all members who abused me!

Thanks for toughening up my character.

[llivv]

I've kept myself far from all the stuff that's been going on here, preferring to ignore many posts rather
than react to them. I believe that one of the problems here is the enormous amount of "chat" going on
outside the Offtopic section. Look for example at participants racking up thousands of posts in just a
single year -- no need to mention names here, they know who they are. At least 80% of such posts are
just idle chat, I don't know why so many people think this forum is the place for that. I'm with the late
RickH who used to say "I don't do chat".

So, my suggestion for improvement: less chat, and then only in Offtopic.

Thank you for listening.

Rickh said a lot of things, didn't he....
Rickh was passionate about issues that were important to him, and he voiced those opinions often in this forum..
Rickh also liked running a mixed testing/unstable box....
Other memories of the man are surely welcome here, but only if they are important to you too.

[Mez]

Other memories of the man are surely welcome here, but only if they are important to you too.

Might be worth sticking in a new thread though.

[llivv]

Other memories of the man are surely welcome here, but only if they are important to you too.

Might be worth sticking in a new thread though.

Good suggestion..
feel free

[Rolling Stone]

To me this place feels like there are no moderators at all. Which of course would be nice if all the people here would act nice, however...

[llivv]

I think I'm feeling like I think Absent must have been feeling these last 3 or 4 months - maybe longer...
Even though I'm not in the same location as Absent is...

[oOarthurOo]

I'm a bit surprised this thing just petered out. I thought people felt more strongly about it. If no one is interested in continuing to refine points 1 and 2 I posted earlier for inclusion into the Board Rules/Guidelines thread, then please don't start another flamewar the next time you disagree with a Mod/Admin's actions.

Here's what I think shoudl happen:

1. All current mods/admins be posted somewhere. A staff page, so everyone knows who they are. I know you got colours.

2. Add a line about respecting the Staff. This is Ubuntu's and I think it's pretty good (licensed under CC)

Respect the Forum Staff: We provide a service in our free time to keep the forums running efficiently. We are all volunteers. Feedback is welcome in Forum Feedback and this is also the place to request assistance with forum software issues. When someone posts in a way that violates the Forums Policy staff have broad discretion in the type of response they take, from merely editing the post up to and including banning the user. Staff are requested to post an explanation in a thread that is locked when time permits. If you believe an error has been made in moderation or other staff actions, please contact the Staff member who took the action via private message.

[traveler]

Oh, there's some strong feelings about the situation...

[AMLJ]

I'm a bit surprised this thing just petered out. I thought people felt more strongly about it. If no one is interested in continuing to refine points 1 and 2 I posted earlier for inclusion into the Board Rules/Guidelines thread, then please don't start another flamewar the next time you disagree with a Mod/Admin's actions.

Here's what I think shoudl happen:

1. All current mods/admins be posted somewhere. A staff page, so everyone knows who they are. I know you got colours.

2. Add a line about respecting the Staff. This is Ubuntu's and I think it's pretty good (licensed under CC)

Respect the Forum Staff: We provide a service in our free time to keep the forums running efficiently. We are all volunteers. Feedback is welcome in Forum Feedback and this is also the place to request assistance with forum software issues. When someone posts in a way that violates the Forums Policy staff have broad discretion in the type of response they take, from merely editing the post up to and including banning the user. Staff are requested to post an explanation in a thread that is locked when time permits. If you believe an error has been made in moderation or other staff actions, please contact the Staff member who took the action via private message.

Yeah, go on... With everything which has happened recently, the semi-bean system that we are going to have soon as Mez mentioned, etc this place HAS TO be an example of a butnut forum... So yeah, add a line about respecting the staff too... I'm not saying that we should not respect them, I'm just saying that there shouldn't be a RULE for that...

[4D696B65]

1. All current mods/admins be posted somewhere. A staff page, so everyone knows who they are. I know you got colours.

Scroll to the bottom of the page and click "The Team". Is that what you mean?

[oOarthurOo]

Yeah, go on... With everything which has happened recently, the semi-bean system that we are going to have soon as Mez mentioned, etc this place HAS TO be an example of a butnut forum... So yeah, add a line about respecting the staff too... I'm not saying that we should not respect them, I'm just saying that there shouldn't be a RULE for that...

Guidelines, not rules. And there is information in there about how they are able to deal with innapropriate posts/behaviour. A lot of people seemed upset that somone was banned, perhaps partly because they didn't realize that could happen, and also because they weren't aware that admins/mods discuss it amongst themselves when responding in such ways. I couldn't think of anyway to add that bit, but it's a good piece if someone wants to work it in.

[oOarthurOo]

1. All current mods/admins be posted somewhere. A staff page, so everyone knows who they are. I know you got colours.

Scroll to the bottom of the page and click "The Team". Is that what you mean?

Yup. Never noticed that link before. Scratch number 1 off the list.

[AMLJ]

Yeah, go on... With everything which has happened recently, the semi-bean system that we are going to have soon as Mez mentioned, etc this place HAS TO be an example of a butnut forum... So yeah, add a line about respecting the staff too... I'm not saying that we should not respect them, I'm just saying that there shouldn't be a RULE for that...

Guidelines, not rules. And there is information in there about how they are able to deal with innapropriate posts/behaviour. A lot of people seemed upset that somone was banned, perhaps partly because they didn't realize that could happen, and also because they weren't aware that admins/mods discuss it amongst themselves when responding in such ways. I couldn't think of anyway to add that bit, but it's a good piece if someone wants to work it in.

No one was upset about someone, whose name is nomko/Ron_Holland getting banned, but most of the old, cool and useful members where upset about somone whose name was cynwulf getting banned... Anyway, let's not discuss this... There's nothing we can do about it, and it'd just get the thread locked...

I've gave up... I see him very much now, on the new forums!