When will MATE get into the repos!?!

[MichiganMan]

I am merely being practical. Personally I have indeed switched to KDE for a trial basis.

Interesting that someone who just two weeks ago was saying that they "didn't miss the desktop metaphor", that they facetiously "love squinting at a tiny taskbar or figuring out what icon is what", that "I want it" (the new Gnome3 interface) and that "The desktop metaphor sucks." now finds motivation to switch to KDE on a trial basis.

I've tried to like Gnome3, its just not happening. Today I spent half an hour setting up XFCE and its like coming home after a horrible trip. Perfect? No, of course not, how could it be? But it made me realize how much I was working to like Gnome3.

[dtl131]

The desktop shouldn't get in your way physically and that's become even more of an issue with mobile devices. Gnome3 devs understood that well. What they failed to grasp is that the desktop shouldn't get in the way of your multitasking workflow.

As for gnome3-fallback, that's a dead-end. Gnome devs won't want to support that when mutter can run fine on software-based acceleration: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTAxMjI

[dmhdlr]

This is sad, especially because it makes sense. The fact that everyone behind Debian is happy with Gnome 3 means that this is what we'll get in Wheezy.

But are the only alternatives moving to another desktop manager? I really liked Gnome 2. And even though Xfce is quite similar, it's just not as powerful as Gnome. I mean, Tunar is ok, but doesn't compare with Nautilus. Same thing goes for Gnome Terminal and Xfce's equivalent. I hear that Linux Mint has a customized installation of Gnome 3 with MATE. I expected to see someone in the Debian community interested in having something like that.

Do you have any links to developer remarks about GNOME 3? Not trying to put you on the spot, just curious, and I don't know my way around the mailing lists yet.

I was always under the impression that Debian regards the upstream with detached resignation and is just more interested in making the vanilla packages usable for different architectures.

[A_T]

Not sure it matters whether or not Debian is happy with Gnome 3 they don't have much choice other than to adopt it or else ignore Gnome completely.

It's a real shame Gnome has gone this way sacrificing all they had achieved with Gnome 2 just so they could attempt to get Gnome on more mobile devices.

[vbrummond]

Interesting that someone who just two weeks ago was saying that they "didn't miss the desktop metaphor"

Stop trolling me. I have a right to do as I please or change my mind at a whim.

that they facetiously "love squinting at a tiny taskbar or figuring out what icon is what", that "I want it" (the new Gnome3 interface) and that "The desktop metaphor sucks." now finds motivation to switch to KDE on a trial basis.

It allocates too many pixmaps leading to X using up too much cpu time. Trial basis over. Also, what I am doing is finding what works best for me. I am using Stable so Gnome 3 is currently not an option. I am seeing if I would like KDE over Gnome 3 in the future. Seems the answer is no.

I've tried to like Gnome3, its just not happening. Today I spent half an hour setting up XFCE and its like coming home after a horrible trip. Perfect? No, of course not, how could it be? But it made me realize how much I was working to like Gnome3.

If you are still targeting this at what I say, I never said people should be forced to like anything. Just that they should realize their whiny crap merely annoys us here. It does not being Mate into Wheezy. Also that people think "I don't like it, thus no one should'. It is really immature. And please note I am not labeling you with this. People can read my post and if they are offended by it, they know my words describe them.

[grege]

For those interested in solutions and not just whining.

I run Sid and Gnome-Shell 3.2. You really need to update to 3.2 asap, but it will be in Testing soon enough. With 3.2 things are a lot simpler. Firstly just add the MGSE extensions from Mint. Add a theme change extension, one to change the default exit to shutdown and a weather app and more.

For the moment I am using extensions meant for Ubuntu, but as they are javascript the usual problems with using Ubuntu packages do not apply. Go to http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/official ... sions.html to get the bits required including the Mint stuff. Then Gnome-Tweak-Tool suddenly opens up many more possibilities. Grab themes from Gnome Look or DevianArt and put them in a .themes folder in you home folder. Now using Advanced Settings (as Tweak-Tool appears in the menus) you can toggle themes on and off at will. You can have a bottom toolbar with task switcher, a Mint style menu on the bottom toolbar and a traditional notification area on the top toolbar. My Skype icon is back next to the clock where it belongs. And tweak tool can turn on and off extensions without rebooting or logging out. You can restart the Shell at any time without disturbing running apps just by alt-F2, pressing r, then enter.

In fact you can now configure your desktop in ways that are impossible in other desktops. One limitation is that extensions can clash so I just stick to the one set. When the Debian package of extensions has all the bits I want I will switch.

I have been using Linux since the nineties and for me Gnome 3.2 is the most exciting development in a long time.

[PhilGil]

@grege

I've been heartened by the work the Mint team has done to make Gnome 3 more usable for those who prefer a traditional desktop. By the time Wheezy becomes stable there may be some alternatives to Gnome-shell other than switching to XFCE. In addition, and more relevant to the topic, Mint intends to package (or has already packaged) MATE and will offer it as an as an alternate desktop environment. With a popular distro supporting MATE it may have a brighter future than I would have expected.

[A_T]

Given that it's reached version 3.2 it's a shame that gnome still needs extensions and scripts to make it even half-way usable as a desktop. Hopefully future versions will include full functionality out of the box and advance it beyond a user environment that is currently only really appropriate for a mobile device.

[grege]

Given that it's reached version 3.2 it's a shame that gnome still needs extensions and scripts to make it even half-way usable as a desktop. Hopefully future versions will include full functionality out of the box and advance it beyond a user environment that is currently only really appropriate for a mobile device.

I think it is more relevant that the extension system exists. It makes Gnome3 configurable in a myriad of ways.

It is up to the distros to bend the basic shell into their and their users vision. Fedora have chosen an unmodified desktop, Mint have gone with MGSE. Others will come up with other approaches over time. Debian will no doubt provide the building blocks and leave it to the user to create what they want. It means that you can have an Applications menu, or if find you like the Shell launcher better just disappear the menu you no longer want. You can make a launcher for a Web app in a few clicks. Developers can write custom extensions to carry out almost any function and they are distro agnostic.

Gnome 3.2 does not need to use extensions to make it half way usable, many people like it just the way it is. The extensions mean that you can make it act like Gnome2 if you want, and in time people will come up with other layouts. Just try a LinuxMint 12 Live CD and see it in action. The official Gnome extensions are already in Sid and will be expanded as new ones are added so it is only a matter of time before you can configure a Debian system in a similar manner to Mint, and just use Tweak Tool to turn on or off the changes.

I see Mate ending up like Trinity - a backwater for a handful of diehards.

[A_T]

I see Mate ending up like Trinity - a backwater for a handful of diehards.

Maybe but Mint has adopted it and that's the most popular distro.

[vbrummond]

Maybe but Mint has adopted it and that's the most popular distro.

Sure it is.
http://tinyurl.com/7boh687

[MarcusW]

Maybe but Mint has adopted it and that's the most popular distro.

Sure it is.
http://tinyurl.com/7boh687

Comparing "Debian" and "Linux Mint" was also interesting:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=debian%2 ... all&sort=0

[A_T]

Maybe but Mint has adopted it and that's the most popular distro.

Sure it is.
http://tinyurl.com/7boh687

Probably Linux Mint users hearing about Debian and googling to find out what it is.

[Mr James]

Maybe but Mint has adopted it and that's the most popular distro.

Sure it is.
http://tinyurl.com/7boh687

Probably Linux Mint users hearing about Debian and googling to find out what it is.

Like human beings hearing about Adam and googling to find out who he was.

[grege]

Linuxmint has not adopted Mate. The main edition is firmly setup on Gnome 3.2. Mate is offered as an alternative. If you read the Mint Blog they see the future as Gnome 3.x.

Linuxmint Debian Edition is in transition to Gnome 3.2 and at the moment there is no sign of Mate in the Mint repos for LMDE. If they do package it it will be compatible with Testing.

[PhilGil]

I've also wondered why no one has suggested maintaining fallback mode after the Gnome 3 team discards it. Is the code too integrated into Gnome to keep it as an extension?

[flabdablet]

You can have a bottom toolbar with task switcher, a Mint style menu on the bottom toolbar and a traditional notification area on the top toolbar. My Skype icon is back next to the clock where it belongs.

The Gnome 3 misfeatures that repeatedly spike my own blood pressure are these:

Lack of a way to put customizable launcher buttons with optional menus in the top panel
Lack of one-click window switching (I far prefer clicking to keyboard for this)
Lack of desktop icons (ejecting removable devices cleanly is now hard)
Lack of a hierarchical (as opposed to folding) Applications menu
Horribly broken kerning in the new default system font, which I have yet to find a way to replace in menus and top panel
No reasonable way to set font size in GDM
No reasonable way to suppress the appearance of selected users in the GDM face browser (no, I really don't want to change their UIDs, thank you very much)
Broken rendering (specifically, incomplete patch-wise scrolling that often makes it really hard to click on clickable things in Iceweasel)
Jarring top panel colour scheme (oh how I loathe white text on a black background)
Windows that maximize themselves if I drag them too far up the screen
Windows that don't maximize themselves on app start even though they were maxed at last close
Lack of minimize and restore/maximize controls in window title bars
Cannot completely disable screen powerdown on idle (so much for watching movies in bed)
Noticeably less responsive than Gnome 2 - feels like my mouse has treacle in the cable
I want my wobbly windows back, goddammit
Likewise all my pretty screensavers

and to add insult to injury

the XFCE panel and desktop refuse to work at all on my box since installing Gnome 3

The only reason I'm not listing more is that I'm currently using a Windows box from work, which means none of them are currently all up in my face.

The only Gnome 3 feature that actually strikes me as an improvement is the idea of always having one more blank workspace available. But considering that in general the only time I want guaranteed access to a blank workspace is to look at my desktop icons, which are now just gone, this is a tiny high spot in a vast sea of glurge.

How much of this can I fix in 3.2?

[roseway]

Just to be clear then, flabdablet, do you like it or not?

[A_T]

Linuxmint has not adopted Mate. The main edition is firmly setup on Gnome 3.2. Mate is offered as an alternative. If you read the Mint Blog they see the future as Gnome 3.x.

Linuxmint Debian Edition is in transition to Gnome 3.2 and at the moment there is no sign of Mate in the Mint repos for LMDE. If they do package it it will be compatible with Testing.

Semantics. Perhaps "supports" would be better. And whether or not Mint is the most used distro the fact is it is extremely popular and it does support Mate.

[flabdablet]

Just to be clear then, flabdablet, do you like it or not?

Just to be clear then: No, I do not.

I maintain a network of Windows boxes for a living, which means I spend my working days getting stressed and annoyed by brain-dead misdesign in multitudinous forms.

It used to be that I would actually look forward to coming home after a day of fighting with Windows boxes and jump on my Debian box to relax. But since Gnome 3 has arrived in my life, I find myself becoming annoyed by it slightly more often than I've been annoyed all day by Windows, and using my home machine is just not fun any more.

It would be nice to be able to believe that Gnome 3.x will at some point become as unobtrusively competent as was 2.3; at present, though, 3.0 is certainly nowhere near that.