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Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
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Ubuntu, Mint, Debian &c.
@ Phalanxer:
I don't have you pegged as a troll, and IMO you can safely ignore such charges. New users are often accused of trolling, and trolling does occur in Linux forums, but IMO such charges are unwarranted more than 50% of the time.
However, I agree with those who said Linux Mint might be a better choice for you right now. But you should come back and try to work with Debian when you have more time (maybe next summer?) because computing is more fun and empowering when you get your hands dirty.
Two further points:
Debian Lenny (oldstable version, in 2011) was a joy when it came out a few years ago because it worked out of the box for many users, including me, and IMO offered much greater power and flexibility than other "works out of the box" distros like Mandriva, Mepis, Ubuntu. Unfortunately, Debian Squeeze (stable version, in 2011) seems to be much more difficult for many users to install, including me. In fairness to Debian, at least in my case this may be in part due to the fact that my hardware was only about five years older than Lenny when I first installed Lenny, and was about eight years older than Squeeze when I first tried to install Squeeze. But in part it seems to be the inevitable consequence of Debian excluding "nonfree" firmware and drivers from the installation media.
Anyway, there are good reasons why I am driving myself batty trying to install Squeeze for more than a year. To mention just three: (1) the other distros don't offer the rapid security updates and (2) Debian gives easy access to the huge Debian software repositories (3) the Debian package management system only works well (in my experience) if you actually use Debian stable rather than some "related" distro.
The reason I mention all this is that by the time you try Debian again, it is possible that a new stable distribution will once again work out of the box, e.g. if the Debian Project rethinks the nonfree issue wrt drivers/firmware needed to install Debian in the first place on most hardware.
I don't have you pegged as a troll, and IMO you can safely ignore such charges. New users are often accused of trolling, and trolling does occur in Linux forums, but IMO such charges are unwarranted more than 50% of the time.
However, I agree with those who said Linux Mint might be a better choice for you right now. But you should come back and try to work with Debian when you have more time (maybe next summer?) because computing is more fun and empowering when you get your hands dirty.
Two further points:
- Debian has a "steep learning curve", more so than Mint and some other distros. That means that when you are exploring something new, at first things go very slowly. At some point things start to go very quickly and you find you have acquired a great deal of "consumer power", often of the form: know what happens in your computer/device and why.
- In this thread, it turned out that specifying the specific command you were trying to run was really important, because busybox is something you are probably more likely to encounter if you are trying to examine a "smart device" using "embedded linux" rather than a standard desktop or server installation. In future, you might begin by trying to state what you are trying to do precisely but concisely and asking what further information would be useful for troubleshooting.
Debian Lenny (oldstable version, in 2011) was a joy when it came out a few years ago because it worked out of the box for many users, including me, and IMO offered much greater power and flexibility than other "works out of the box" distros like Mandriva, Mepis, Ubuntu. Unfortunately, Debian Squeeze (stable version, in 2011) seems to be much more difficult for many users to install, including me. In fairness to Debian, at least in my case this may be in part due to the fact that my hardware was only about five years older than Lenny when I first installed Lenny, and was about eight years older than Squeeze when I first tried to install Squeeze. But in part it seems to be the inevitable consequence of Debian excluding "nonfree" firmware and drivers from the installation media.
Anyway, there are good reasons why I am driving myself batty trying to install Squeeze for more than a year. To mention just three: (1) the other distros don't offer the rapid security updates and (2) Debian gives easy access to the huge Debian software repositories (3) the Debian package management system only works well (in my experience) if you actually use Debian stable rather than some "related" distro.
The reason I mention all this is that by the time you try Debian again, it is possible that a new stable distribution will once again work out of the box, e.g. if the Debian Project rethinks the nonfree issue wrt drivers/firmware needed to install Debian in the first place on most hardware.
Ahtiga Saraz
Le peuple debout contre les tyrans! De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours l'audace!
Le peuple debout contre les tyrans! De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours l'audace!
- dilberts_left_nut
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Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
... IBFTL
Phalater, you are an idiot troll.
And not a very original one either.
Piss off.
On the off chance that you are not (I have come across people as genuinely stupid as you appear before), WOW is all I can say.
Going by your logic, we should all take the easy path, have our software dumbed down and spoonfed, have someone else make it for us, just the way they think we should have it.
Do you apply the same attitude to the rest of your life?
Do you bother to learn to cook or is it just fast food every day cos it's easier and shinier?
Do you bother to select the correct tool for the job or is everything a hammer?
Do you produce or consume?
The only justification I can think of for your existence is that you are keeping a few kilo's of carbon out of the atmosphere ,,,
Phalater, you are an idiot troll.
And not a very original one either.
Piss off.
On the off chance that you are not (I have come across people as genuinely stupid as you appear before), WOW is all I can say.
Going by your logic, we should all take the easy path, have our software dumbed down and spoonfed, have someone else make it for us, just the way they think we should have it.
Do you apply the same attitude to the rest of your life?
Do you bother to learn to cook or is it just fast food every day cos it's easier and shinier?
Do you bother to select the correct tool for the job or is everything a hammer?
Do you produce or consume?
The only justification I can think of for your existence is that you are keeping a few kilo's of carbon out of the atmosphere ,,,
AdrianTM wrote:There's no hacker in my grandma...
Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
I got a laugh out of that as well. If only he knew where he was.dasein wrote:I am honest-to-gawd laughing aloud. If he only knew what he was saying.Phalanxer wrote:If you haven't checked them out I recommend you do. There really cool.
Ubuntu works? And Debian does not? I find it interesting how many individuals have the opposite experience of most people.
There never was anything for him here.Phalanxer wrote:Theres nothing more here for me.
- kiyop
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Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
I laughed out loudly.4D696B65 wrote:Really?Phalanxer wrote:Documentation? What documentation? There is nothing in the Help manual on configuring a network.
http://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration
Thanks for a funny joke, Phalanxer, and thanks for nice support, 4D696B65.
To Phalanxer,
I think that persons who cannot read manuals because of lack of time or who does not read manual or who cannot understand some poster's kind reply should not use debian.Phalanxer wrote:For "everything in a text file". Your obviously stuck in some crap era of computing and haven't been introduced to a GUI. Who the hell wants to dig into text files. I know I sure don't.
You install off Debian CD's only? Says who? What type of a retard only installs off there "operating system" CD? What is wrong with you?
Also, its not Debian is too hard, its that time is money, and I am not some womanless failure that has more time on hand to care.
Debian requires reading some times? All I wanted to do was configure my network and install something off a CD. I shouldn't have to read anything, it should be bloody obvious. I found out that network-manager is missing from Debian. Real dumb crap developers that are totally clueless on how to make an operating system "lets remove network-manager and edit by text files, because it makes me feel more superior".
Ubuntu and Mint is superior than debian because they can be manipulated by incompetent persons like you.
All the posters who gave you the answers to resolve your problem are superior than you because they can manipulate debian.
You cannot manipulate debian without learning.
Go back to kinder distributions like Ubuntu or Mint.
ADDED at 2011/12/19 3:19 in JAPAN:
I was irritated by unity and interfering auto-configuration and little degree of freedom of Ubuntu and started using debian.Phalanxer wrote:Those who think Ubuntu sucks over Debian needs to see a psychologist and probably re-evaluate their life. Ubuntu is better than Debian in every way, hence why its so damn popular.
I think in debian you can configure easily many settings if you learn how to manipulate.
And debian works on more architecture than Ubuntu and Mint.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_dist ... re_support
Last edited by kiyop on 2011-12-18 18:27, edited 1 time in total.
Openbox, JWM: Jessie, Sid, Arch / Win XP (on VirtualBox), 10
http://kiyoandkei.bbs.fc2.com/
http://kiyoandkei.bbs.fc2.com/
Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
Our species is quickly losing its instincts for survival which include curiosity, motivation and problem solving. When crunch time comes specimens like this will be the first to exit. Darwinism is action, I say!dilberts_left_nut wrote:Going by your logic, we should all take the easy path, have our software dumbed down and spoonfed, have someone else make it for us, just the way they think we should have it.
Do you apply the same attitude to the rest of your life?
Do you bother to learn to cook or is it just fast food every day cos it's easier and shinier?
Do you bother to select the correct tool for the job or is everything a hammer?
Do you produce or consume?
May the FORK be with you!
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Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
@dilberts_left_nut...that was hilarious.. esp. the one about the hammer. That guy is dumber'n a bag o'hammers, for sure.golinux wrote:Our species is quickly losing its instincts for survival which include curiosity, motivation and problem solving. When crunch time comes specimens like this will be the first to exit. Darwinism is action, I say!dilberts_left_nut wrote:Going by your logic, we should all take the easy path, have our software dumbed down and spoonfed, have someone else make it for us, just the way they think we should have it.
Do you apply the same attitude to the rest of your life?
Do you bother to learn to cook or is it just fast food every day cos it's easier and shinier?
Do you bother to select the correct tool for the job or is everything a hammer?
Do you produce or consume?
@Golinux...you are spot-on....ain't socialism great? I sure am glad my tax dollars can go to subsidizing the procreation of such lazy, spoiled and self-indulgent cretins.
Thank you all for serving as an idiot-buffer for the rest of the debianites!
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Maybe no need to be quite so rough on a frustrated noobie?
Phalanxer losing his/her temper didn't help, but I think you all should cut people a lot more slack when they are having installation problems. Some points you might bear in mind:
- installing can be complicated
- someone who has just spent many hours trying and failing to install Debian is probably feeling frustrated and not at their best, and IMO DUFians should try to make allowances for emotional and mental exhaustion which is normal under such circumstances,
- when a newbie posts with an installation problem, IMO there are often complex factors unique to their specific situation/setup (how many people here have exactly the same hardware as another DUF user, for example?), so when when something goes wrong with installation, they typically need help eliminating (and perhaps solving!) "the easy stuff" which might have caused the problem, because they are probably focused on the hard stuff which DUFians don't know about.
Ahtiga Saraz
Le peuple debout contre les tyrans! De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours l'audace!
Le peuple debout contre les tyrans! De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours l'audace!
Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
Troll trolly troll troll troll pants.
Always on Debian Testing
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Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
@Ahtiga...did you read his posts? If he isn't a troll, then I don't know what is. Frustration does not excuse long, ranting and profane abuse toward other members.He needs to go back to kindergarten and learn some manners, preferably to the tune of a hickory stick.
Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
Well I didn't have much manners either. Which is my bad.
Always on Debian Testing
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Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
A hickory stick won't help you; you're incorrigible....vbrummond wrote:Well I didn't have much manners either. Which is my bad.
Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
After the OP posted what the exact problem is (autorun.sh from VBox), he got the solution in the very next post.
The same would be valid for any other Linux (either chmod +x or run it with a bash in front of it...nothing unusual, really not).
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.
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Some things which have been on my mind for some time
This might not be the ideal thread to use an example, but there are some things which have been on my mind, so I might as well take the opportunity to try to express them.
@ john_deere:
I don't want to single anyone out for criticism, but to avoid misunderstanding: the thread was actually quite civil up to and including this post from the OP:
IMO, the appropriate response would have been something like this:
All this because he got tired and basically said he had decided that Debian was not for him. Did he really deserve that? (Never mind for a moment the fact that he eventually lost his temper.)
Again, I am NOT trying to single out any particular member for criticism, and I hope no-one flies off the handle, but I do feel that there is a specific point in this thread where things went bad, and I put it at the second post I just quoted, not the first.
I think it is quite possible that if the OP had received effective assistance right away, no-one here would have received any bad impressions of his character. In the early part of the thread, I think his tone was actually quite reasonable. Why did it change? I think it changed because of some unneccessary comments by others which derailed what should have been a useful thread.
Also, I suspect that some regular respondents to "help me!" threads often get frustrated when they do not know a suitable solution, or when due to job pressures they lack time to properly explain the suggestions they have in mind, and instead of saying "I don't know" or "I'll try to return later today, when I have more time, to explain a possible workaround", they start abusing the inquirer. At least that is the impression I have, in some cases.
Another issue which I think often results in help threads going bad is the well known phenomenon whereby respondents assume that the OP
FOSS does seem to attract a certain personality type which is, may psychologists say, more prone than most to hypersensitity to perceived slights.
My two cents. And many regulars are of course consistently polite and helpful even to noobies.
@ john_deere:
I did, and speaking as one who has experienced considerable frustration with numerous baffling problems (hardly any of which appear to be either reproducible or comprehensible) installing a working Debian Squeeze for more than a year (in contrast to a good experience installing Debian Lenny just a few years previously!), I felt that his posts probably reflect understandable frustration, not trolling.@Ahtiga...did you read his posts? If he isn't a troll, then I don't know what is.
I don't want to single anyone out for criticism, but to avoid misunderstanding: the thread was actually quite civil up to and including this post from the OP:
Tone can be hard to read over a text interface, but I read this as suggesting that the OP had simply had enough for one day.Thanks for all your help guys, its much appreciated, really!
I've decided that Debian 6 is not for me. Nothing seems to just work and allot of things seem to be missing. I have spent my whole afternoon working with it and all I have been able to do is use a web browser on it. Things shouldn't have to be this difficult.
Merry Christmas to you all!
IMO, the appropriate response would have been something like this:
But instead, unfortunately, the OP got this:Sorry to hear that and hope you'll reconsider. It's possible that if you tell as in more detail what you did when you were trying to install Debian, and what happened when you were using the installer, we could tell how to apply a simple fix which would solve your problem. And while many aspects of the Debian user experience differ from the Windows user experience, we can give you some quick pointers to get started doing things besides web-browsing--- just mention something you'd like to do.
Again, hard to read tone over a text interface, but I read that as hostile, and so, apparently, did the OP. And--- bear in mind that he had just spent all day with a frustrating experience--- he didn't take the apparent hostility at all well. And by the end of the thread, he was indeed expressing what might be called an "anti-Debian attitude", but I suspect that was only because he was so irate at the resentful comments which were being flung at him, not because he was a troll.well that was quick... if you'd invest more time in learning, what is obviously to you, a new OS, you'd find debian an excellent choice.
did you really think that you weren't going to run into issues with an OS that you obviously haven't used before? anytime you make a big change you'll always have difficulties. i don't care if it's going from windows to mac os, there will ALWAYS be a learning curve.
All this because he got tired and basically said he had decided that Debian was not for him. Did he really deserve that? (Never mind for a moment the fact that he eventually lost his temper.)
Again, I am NOT trying to single out any particular member for criticism, and I hope no-one flies off the handle, but I do feel that there is a specific point in this thread where things went bad, and I put it at the second post I just quoted, not the first.
True. But experiencing similar frustrations does tend to cause one to regard such ranting as indicating understandable human failings rather than maliciousness.Frustration does not excuse long, ranting and profane abuse toward other members.
I think it is quite possible that if the OP had received effective assistance right away, no-one here would have received any bad impressions of his character. In the early part of the thread, I think his tone was actually quite reasonable. Why did it change? I think it changed because of some unneccessary comments by others which derailed what should have been a useful thread.
I too would like to see less profanity and ranting on this board. But in many threads in which a newbie loses his temper, I think this could be avoided if regular DUF respondents tried harder to put themselves in the shoes of someone accustomed to Windows who is trying Debian for the first time, and is quickly frustrated by issues which could possibly be easily fixed if they can be coaxed into explaining in more detail what is happening. If respondents bear in mind that anyone dealing with installation issues and numerous baffling novelties may be suffering from information overload, which can lead to the possibly mistaken impression that the OP is unwilling to study man pages, perform Internet searches, &c, when the immediate problem is more likely that a newbie is overwhelmed, asking for help, and all too often, getting abuse instead of advice. (Accusations of trolling if untrue should be counted as abuse even when someone honestly suspects trolling, agreed?)He needs to go back to kindergarten and learn some manners
Also, I suspect that some regular respondents to "help me!" threads often get frustrated when they do not know a suitable solution, or when due to job pressures they lack time to properly explain the suggestions they have in mind, and instead of saying "I don't know" or "I'll try to return later today, when I have more time, to explain a possible workaround", they start abusing the inquirer. At least that is the impression I have, in some cases.
Another issue which I think often results in help threads going bad is the well known phenomenon whereby respondents assume that the OP
- has the same native language as they do
- lives in the same country under the same laws that they do
- has been weaned on the same cultural norms that they were
- has viewed the same films, TV programmes, or cartoons that they have
- has the same political and religious beliefs that they do
- studied at the same schools that they did
- has the same personality characteristics as they do
- considers funny the same things as they do
- uses the same financial/banking system as they do
- can travel as freely as they do
- enjoys use of the same complement of mammalian senses as they do (namely, I presume, all among the usual list)
- suffers from the same health conditions as they do (namely, I presume, nothing serious)
- encounters the same level of offical corruption in daily life as they do (namely, I presume, nothing of note)
- had the same formative experiences as they did
- learned (or could be reasonably expected to have learned) the same computing skills they did
- has essentially the same hardware they they do
- uses the internet in essentially the same way that they do
- in similar circumstances with similar available information can be reasonably expected to make the same judgments that they would
- computers are very complicated beasties, and what they themselves know is probably overwhelmed by what they do not know
FOSS does seem to attract a certain personality type which is, may psychologists say, more prone than most to hypersensitity to perceived slights.
My two cents. And many regulars are of course consistently polite and helpful even to noobies.
Last edited by Ahtiga Saraz on 2011-12-21 07:14, edited 7 times in total.
Ahtiga Saraz
Le peuple debout contre les tyrans! De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours l'audace!
Le peuple debout contre les tyrans! De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours l'audace!
Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
I can agree that is never good to open with hostilities. I have no problems offering help as long as I can teach them how to help themselves a little as well.
Though I never tolerate this Debian sucks attitude. It does not suck just because it has an issue or someone does not agree. Nothing is perfect. I did not come here to have someone with a lot less Linux experience than me tell me to run off and use Ubuntu or Mint because it is better. The best I can do in a situation like that is politely disagree and ignore the user. Everyone has an opinion. At the end of the day we have to make a choice. The problem is people tend to think their opinion is fact; and people who do not agree are a fanboy or stupid. I have no reservations about rebuking such an attitude.
That being said I am guilty of it myself at times. We call tend to like what we like and want to defend it. If we post with a bad attitude and say things we regret we apologize though. When I started posting here again I got into fights with a lot of people however I hold no grudges or anything of the sort and all of us get along great now.
Though I never tolerate this Debian sucks attitude. It does not suck just because it has an issue or someone does not agree. Nothing is perfect. I did not come here to have someone with a lot less Linux experience than me tell me to run off and use Ubuntu or Mint because it is better. The best I can do in a situation like that is politely disagree and ignore the user. Everyone has an opinion. At the end of the day we have to make a choice. The problem is people tend to think their opinion is fact; and people who do not agree are a fanboy or stupid. I have no reservations about rebuking such an attitude.
That being said I am guilty of it myself at times. We call tend to like what we like and want to defend it. If we post with a bad attitude and say things we regret we apologize though. When I started posting here again I got into fights with a lot of people however I hold no grudges or anything of the sort and all of us get along great now.
Always on Debian Testing
Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
Point of fact: the OP explicitly rejected the opportunity to help himself, and pointedly refused even to consider the idea of reading documentation. Given those facts, he is ill-suited to Linux in general, and Debian in particular.vbrummond wrote:I have no problems offering help as long as I can teach them how to help themselves a little as well.
Of course, "better" is, and always must be, understood as "better for what?"vbrummond wrote:I did not come here to have someone... tell me to run off and use Ubuntu or Mint because it is better.
As much as I like Debian, it's not as newbie-friendly as some other distros, but then again, it doesn't try to be. "Smooth-and-easy transition from Windows" or "use without reading documentation" is simply not a priority for Debian and its community.
Blaming Debian for not being "easy" is like blaming a jumbo jet for not being "small."
Last edited by dasein on 2011-12-20 22:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Urging greater tolerance
@ vbrummond:
Wrt noobies apparently discounting your experience: I didn't really get that from the first part of the thread, I just got someone who had spent all day and wound up feeling quite frustrated.
And instead of being quick to take personal affront, wouldn't it be better to just shrug off any perceived slights? Because you know most of us know you know stuff and all that.
Hope you see my point!
@ dassein:
To summarize my previous post: particularly when responding to a frustrated "just-come-over-from-Windows" noobie who has just stated that he has spent all day on a failed attempt to install Debian, IMO everyone including you should be tolerant of a comment like "Debian is not for me", and I'd like to see responses which encourage the OP to try again rather than responses which rush to assume that he has an anti-Debian attitude, is unwilling or unable to learn, or...I never tolerate this Debian sucks attitude.
Wrt noobies apparently discounting your experience: I didn't really get that from the first part of the thread, I just got someone who had spent all day and wound up feeling quite frustrated.
And instead of being quick to take personal affront, wouldn't it be better to just shrug off any perceived slights? Because you know most of us know you know stuff and all that.
Hope you see my point!
@ dassein:
But where did he do any of those things before the post which I quoted above? And Debian is easy, potentially, if one gives a few pointers. I agree that noobies need to be willing to try new things, of course, but I think you simply didn't take into account the bit where he clearly stated that he had just spent all day... hope you see what I am getting at.the OP explicitly rejected the opportunity to help himself, and pointedly refused even to consider the idea of reading documentation. ... Blaming Debian for not being "easy"
Ahtiga Saraz
Le peuple debout contre les tyrans! De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours l'audace!
Le peuple debout contre les tyrans! De l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours l'audace!
Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
No, I have no problems with Debian is not for me. I even acknowledge there are some basic issues that a new user might not understand how to fix without asking for help.
Always on Debian Testing
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Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
No one should post when they are angry and frustrated; or at least wait to submit it until they have had a cool drink and a chance to calm down. Having said that, I will be the first to admit that I don't always follow my own advice. Believe me, I can understand a newbie's frustration....Linux is different....however, when you voluntarily come to a forum and make a post asking for help, and then choose to ignore the advice given and go on to sing some variation of the old tune "Debian sucks, you are all retards for using it" you can't reasonably expect people to crowd around and kiss your ass to get you to "stay". No one at a forum gets paid to hold hands.
Re: Not understanding why I am getting "Permission denied"
oh for the love of all things sacred, die thread, die...
Something witty goes here...