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Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstable

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Snow Keld
Posts: 42
Joined: 2011-06-21 04:34

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#21 Post by Snow Keld »

the goal and idea are very similar.

saline a guess it the MOST similar.

but i agree with those people that always come and say "debian is all ancient outdated software" which is very true in stable, which i really dont think debian stable is a great desktop linux because of this, not that it has no purpose, it is the MOST stable, and i would use it above all else on a server or something.

saline is decently easy, i have tried it, they use remastersys installer which is not bad, much much better than most others, the mepis installer i have looked at extensively and it is very easy and well made.

both are based on debian stable, mepis is exclusively KDE, which is the largest difference there. saline is pretty close.

the closest out there is LMDE XFCE, but the mint tools really are not that great.. and if you have ever tried to get rid of mint update and mintinstall and use update-manager and software-center then you would know how much of a world of hurt youd be in, it pretty much seems to break apt altogether somehow.


furthermore i do not intend on including any non-free software with any releases in the future. i'm trying to integrate options into the installer so the user can choose to install those softwares if they choose to.
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pabs3
Posts: 14
Joined: 2008-01-03 15:15
Location: Australia

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#22 Post by pabs3 »

Have you considered joining the Debian derivatives census (and lists/IRC)? Debian is trying to catalogue all our derivatives, to bring them together on one forum and to integrate information about them into Debian infrastructure:

http://wiki.debian.org/DerivativesFrontDesk
http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census
http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Integration
http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/CensusQA
http://wiki.debian.org/DerivativesFrontDesk/FAQ
bye, pabs

zalew
Posts: 77
Joined: 2011-10-31 12:02

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#23 Post by zalew »

the theme is a bit obscure, what all those window buttons mean anyway?

Snow Keld
Posts: 42
Joined: 2011-06-21 04:34

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#24 Post by Snow Keld »

pabs3 wrote:Have you considered joining the Debian derivatives census (and lists/IRC)? Debian is trying to catalogue all our derivatives, to bring them together on one forum and to integrate information about them into Debian infrastructure:

http://wiki.debian.org/DerivativesFrontDesk
http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census
http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Integration
http://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/CensusQA
http://wiki.debian.org/DerivativesFrontDesk/FAQ
thank you for this post. i feel i should give time to see if i can even keep my project going then i will most definitely add it to the list. i had seen the front desk page some time ago, or read the information somewhere else. i thought it was very good that debian was actively trying to have derivative works integrate their software back into debian. i plan to do my best with any works produced by my disto.

i need some kind of user base, the project has publicly been up for 17 days now and i have some feedback from users. i just hope i can get more feedback and maybe some help for my next release.
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notthatguy
Posts: 199
Joined: 2011-12-13 12:48

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#25 Post by notthatguy »

Snow Keld wrote: but i agree with those people that always come and say "debian is all ancient outdated software" which is very true in stable, which i really dont think debian stable is a great desktop linux because of this, not that it has no purpose, it is the MOST stable, and i would use it above all else on a server or something.
Thats stupid. I don't buy a car everyday....or a new microwave....or even a new phone....or fifty other things that have newer versions available....
Having the latest version only matters if you actually need something the latest version provides and I rarely find that to be the case....

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buntunub
Posts: 591
Joined: 2011-02-11 05:23

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#26 Post by buntunub »

notthatguy wrote:
Snow Keld wrote: but i agree with those people that always come and say "debian is all ancient outdated software" which is very true in stable, which i really dont think debian stable is a great desktop linux because of this, not that it has no purpose, it is the MOST stable, and i would use it above all else on a server or something.
Thats stupid.
Wow. Someones opinion is "stupid"? Woe betide anyone who states their opinion on these forums! Some people will attack you for just stating your opinion here regardless if its right or wrong (not that opinions are right or wrong).

Keep on keepin on with Imagine Linux. It may not be much now but perhaps with some vision and imagination you can turn it into something appealing to a large cross section of Linux users - new and old. The idea's your trying are not new and there are other well established distro's out there that currently do virtually the same exact thing your doing already, but that does not mean you cant make it into something which is very different. Facts are facts though, and there is no logical reason to think that any mainstream userbase will pick up your distro unless you have something significantly new to offer. Heck, crazy ideas have been tried in the past like Gobolinux? I think the name was that had a completely different file structure which was more like Windows on a Linux kernel. So even different does not cut mustard sometimes. Life is rough for the Distro Maintainers, no doubt.
Last edited by buntunub on 2012-02-24 00:07, edited 1 time in total.

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nadir
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Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#27 Post by nadir »

In my opinion 4 and 4 is 27. :wink:

ah, imagine-linux. yup, it's worth to have a look at (let me do it again, to make sure i did not get confused by confusion).
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.

dzz
Posts: 257
Joined: 2007-02-05 20:39
Location: Devon, England

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#28 Post by dzz »

Working nicely on my syslinux multiboot usb stick, will try live-rw persistence later. No space at present here for hd install and have already other sid.

I'm pleased to see someone doing this on an individual level, using the tools that Debian actually provides. One difference from siduction is it uses the standard Debian live-boot mechanism and kernel so is open to customisation. Good work, a nice sid/xfce mix. To configure a default xfce install to look anywhere near as good as that would take me a lot of time.

Bootup is under 30 seconds despite gdm3 but the default emerald/compiz it's a little heavy for my antiquated herdware (xp3200 single-core), idling at around 200MB ram and 25% cpu (moving a wobbly window)

I see there are configs for extlinux in /boot, have been wanting to investigate that as a possible grub2 alternative.

notthatguy
Posts: 199
Joined: 2011-12-13 12:48

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#29 Post by notthatguy »

buntunub wrote:Woe betide anyone who states their opinion on these forums! Some people will attack you for just stating your opinion here regardless if its right or wrong (not that opinions are right or wrong).
There seems to be some confusion here latelyregarding hostility and being nice and other bullshit. Anyone is free to state an opinion. But it isn't a one way street where you have to go along in the same direction. If someone is free to state an opinion then that means someone is free to state an opinion about that opinion and so on and so on. That is what is exercised on this board or hs been in the past. There isn't an agree or don't post rule that I know of. It goes both ways....
Wow. Someones opinion is "stupid"?
I thought I put forth the premise that something does not have to be the most recent to be useful and provided examples. If you accept that premise then it would be stupid to think software is any different. So no, someones opinion is not stupid (although that would still be my opinion on his opinion and be just as valid of an opinion) but I think the idea that software must be the latest release to be useful on a desktop is stupid. Than again maybe an idea is an opinion...dunno....

The part I find funny is that butnuts seem to think compiz is a part of gnome and that practically everyone uses it. Than again maybe it is just sad that I have never installed it...dunno again

Snow Keld
Posts: 42
Joined: 2011-06-21 04:34

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#30 Post by Snow Keld »

thank you all for the feedback.

some information.

if you look in your notification area (expand it) you will find fusion-icon running. if you do not enjoy compiz then select xfwm4 :)

my live image is built using the debian version of remastersys. i am investigating alternatives to using remastersys as i want better compression and i would like to use upstart which currently creates some real problems with remastersys.

also, the goal for this distro is very much like others out there. i feel that the biggest difference is the base being sid

easy distros based on debian stable are plenty
based on testing are few
on sid are none as far as i can tell.

easy distros based on ubuntu are in the hundreds, but this is debian :) and thats meant to be an attraction. otherwise i could have just made "yet another ubuntu variant".
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distrohop
Posts: 1
Joined: 2012-02-24 03:36

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#31 Post by distrohop »

notthatguy wrote:
Snow Keld wrote: but i agree with those people that always come and say "debian is all ancient outdated software" which is very true in stable, which i really dont think debian stable is a great desktop linux because of this, not that it has no purpose, it is the MOST stable, and i would use it above all else on a server or something.
Thats stupid. I don't buy a car everyday....or a new microwave....or even a new phone....or fifty other things that have newer versions available....
Having the latest version only matters if you actually need something the latest version provides and I rarely find that to be the case....

I tried another distro by some forumer here called refractor or retractor but gave up on it within 5 minutes of use because it's kind of stupid like a kindergarten science fair project or something.

Up-to-date apps (or rolling release model) is a very good idea for a desktop-centric distro and to say otherwise and call it stupid is just... well... really stupid and trollish.

I'll give this one a go and report back. You have my support.

notthatguy
Posts: 199
Joined: 2011-12-13 12:48

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#32 Post by notthatguy »

Snow Keld wrote: i am investigating alternatives to using remastersys...
now that sounds like a winner....

notthatguy
Posts: 199
Joined: 2011-12-13 12:48

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#33 Post by notthatguy »

distrohop wrote:[
I tried another distro by some forumer here called refractor or retractor but gave up on it within 5 minutes of use because it's kind of stupid like a kindergarten science fair project or something.
What did you find stupid about it? Wait, wouldn't you consider it stupid and trollish to say what you did...

You should check refracta now. It has turned a bit more geeky and useful for the advanced user. You might like it.

The 'Aunt Martha' version that I created served a purpose. I think I am going to start it up again since my old refracta version requires a lot of updates. I think I will call it kyloris this time. Be sure to check it out. Oh yea, the purpose.... The purpose of my 'kindergarten' edition was/is to serve the handful of desktop users that I know personally, my father-in-law, my neice/nephews, my kids, my wife(occasional user), my mother, a couple older people that use the desktops I gave them, so on and so forth. So a browser with flash and java is needed, the ability to rip cds, play music and movies, convert music from one format to another, calculator, screenshot, notepad, cd/dvd burning, sound recorder, word processor, maybe a spreadsheet, photo tool and image editor. That pretty much covers everything they do with their computers. Although maybe an email client or maybe not since they all use webmail. They haven't mentioned anything else they do so that is usually what I include.

I personally would like something more geeky but I like to use whatever I install on others computers so I am more familiar with the system and can help them. So I am sticking to my Aunt Martha edition, with skippy-xd for window previews and maybe a few other well hidden tricks for my own enjoyment.

That being said, did you try any other of my custom debian images...the icewm ones...the e17 ones...the unstable based ones...was they all stupid? :wink:
Up-to-date apps (or rolling release model) is a very good idea for a desktop-centric distro and to say otherwise and call it stupid is just... well... really stupid and trollish.
It is a very bad idea if you do not want to be constantly updating. It is not a good idea if you want your computer to be the same as it was last week, month, year. It is not a good idea if you expect everything to 'just work' as it has been doing. It is not a good idea if you are not knowledgeable regarding freeze/release as well as other significant changes that occur.

And once again....the part that was stupid was the idea that everything has to be up to date to be useful. My 1994 mercury capri still gets me from point A to point B and my iceweasel 3.5 still plays my keez...nothing newer needed for me thanks...hell my lawnmower is probably ten years old as well...


First fdn went warm and fuzzy and the butnuts came along....now it seem we all have to go along with everyones opinion or not post...sad....just sad...

dzz
Posts: 257
Joined: 2007-02-05 20:39
Location: Devon, England

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#34 Post by dzz »

I tried another distro by some forumer here called refractor or retractor but gave up on it within 5 minutes of use because it's kind of stupid like a kindergarten science fair project or something.
5 minutes? It probably takes longer to switch on your machine, open a browser, log in and write a forum post! BTW the correct spelling is "Refracta" Do feel free to write derogatory comments about that which you know almost nothing, this is after all FDN. Feel free also, to refer to a long-term and knowledgable member of the Debian community as "some forumer here"

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nadir
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Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#35 Post by nadir »

notthatguy wrote: There seems to be some confusion here lately regarding hostility and being nice and other bullshit. Anyone is free to state an opinion. But it isn't a one way street where you have to go along in the same direction. If someone is free to state an opinion then that means someone is free to state an opinion about that opinion and so on and so on. That is what is exercised on this board or has been in the past. There isn't an agree or don't post rule that I know of. It goes both ways....
Yup.
Not every extended discussion is a flame war neither.
And not everyone who disagrees is automatically a troll.
A bean system was promised, but it did never arrive. Once it is there (and we all know it will be there), it will get worse.

I am trying refracta for ... no idea ... 2 years? no idea ... It is a good project, and it has been a good project from the very beginning.
Especially for a "hopper", which i assume a distrohopper his (say a Dennis Hopper). You could hop twice a day, not only the environment from icewm to a full gnome, but also from a forum to a mailing list to another forum, in case Dean was in a fury.... that sure was fun (it still is, but different, less chaotic fun).
I did not say it is not kindergarten, and i would not care if it was.
LInk: http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta/
and in case anyone wonders: no, i am not (really) involved. If anything i am the guinea-pig ( it says "nadir's forum", but that only means that i did make the account at freeforums, nothing more. It is the refracta forum.)


To make it, both paragraphs above and my general idea, short:
Put the fun back in computing: Playfulness (clever? good. not clever? good too).
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.

fsmithred
Posts: 1873
Joined: 2008-01-02 14:52

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#36 Post by fsmithred »

@Snow Keld:

Go for it. You'll learn a lot from it, and if you end up with a userbase of 2 people, counting yourself, it'll be worth the effort.

upstart: why? Isn't Debian moving to systemd?
i486: Are there any desktops that still require this? My P166MHz died many ages ago.
twm: Thank you for including it! It's an old favorite.

refractasnapshot vs. remastersys: Your comment about them looking the same prompted me to look at remastersys. They look very different from my biased point of view. Yeah, they serve pretty much the same function - make a live-cd from your system. I'm still playing with remastersys, so I don't have a final opinion on it yet.

I booted imagine_12-02_dev3.iso in virtualbox and installed it. The installer hung on os-prober testing my swap partition. I finally killed it and rebooted into the installed system with no problems. Ran 'remastersys backup' and made an iso. Got some errors like this:
"sed: can't read /home//home/remastersys:/.config/Thunar/volmanrc: No such file or directory"
It also looked in /home/remastersys/.config and /home/Desktop/.config.

Tried to boot the iso in vbox, and it hangs at solid white bar. Booting into failsafe mode, it drops to busybox after premount scripts with the error message "panic Unknown filesystem type on /dev/loop0 (/live/image/live/filesystem.squashfs).

@noththatguy: dean-clone? How many clones of him are running around? Kyloris: booted the iso in vbox but didn't spend much time there. Anything in particular you want tested?


.

dzz
Posts: 257
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Location: Devon, England

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#37 Post by dzz »

i486: Are there any desktops that still require this?
Unless I got this wrong , the other kernels in sid are pae or 64 bit. My single-core athlon won't boot any but the 486

refractasnapshot vs. remastersys: I used remastersys a lot a couple of years back. Although it supports Squeeze now it is originally from an ubuntu background. The forums were not always friendly, if a post was made beyond "what is supported here" which was decided by one man only. There seemed little interest in anything experimental, sid was taboo ("unsupported", full-stop).. Talk of modifying the scripts got a very defensive response;. "you are on your own" was made clear. For a time, part of the support forum became paid-subscription exclusively. However, the application itself is basically good. I finally gave up because grub2, which I didn't want to be forced to use, was made a dependency.

By contrast refracta (-snapshot and installer) is done as an unofficial Debian community project in a spirit of openness; technical discussion on the extra scripts and the build itself gets a friendly welcome in their forum (it also works very well)

adenukolnis
Posts: 459
Joined: 2012-02-24 18:36

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#38 Post by adenukolnis »

fsmithred wrote:@noththatguy: dean-clone? How many clones of him are running around?
Even one is too many. :D I think I will call the scripts clone and installer and be done with it. Maybe...
Kyloris: booted the iso in vbox but didn't spend much time there. Anything in particular you want tested?
Actually, I can't think of much. Heck it is debian stable so it should 'just work'. The kids already informed me I missed some of the needed gstreamer plugins. I also need to add in a couple more apps that I missed.

I would like to know how well skippy-xd works on other systems. So if you get a chance to hit the logo (windows logo) and see if that works I would appreciate it.

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nadir
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Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#39 Post by nadir »

adenukolnis
Any perl-guru out there who is able to write me a little script which will give ma all possible options of a given array of characters? adenukolnis in this case... doing it manually each time a user with a strange name arrives is a wee bit exhausting. I got a strong suspicion, a very strong one... :wink: (adonis_colognis would of been more of my taste ...)

end chat.
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.

fsmithred
Posts: 1873
Joined: 2008-01-02 14:52

Re: Imagine-Linux (new distribution) based on debian unstabl

#40 Post by fsmithred »

Code: Select all

aptitude show  linux-image-3.2.0-1-686-pae
<snip>
This kernel requires PAE (Physical Address Extension). This feature is
supported by the Intel Pentium Pro/II/III/4/4M/D, Xeon, Core and Atom; AMD
Geode NX, Athlon (K7), Duron, Opteron, Sempron, Turion or Phenom; Transmeta
Efficeon; VIA C7; and some other processors. 
I believe it's the replacement for -bigmem kernels.

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