Scheduled Maintenance: We are aware of an issue with Google, AOL, and Yahoo services as email providers which are blocking new registrations. We are trying to fix the issue and we have several internal and external support tickets in process to resolve the issue. Please see: viewtopic.php?t=158230

 

 

 

How would you improve this forum?

Code of conduct, suggestions, and information on forums.debian.net.
Message
Author
User avatar
hadrons123
Posts: 59
Joined: 2012-01-31 09:58
Location: NYC

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#41 Post by hadrons123 »

1. spam . I rarely see spam in other major distro's forums.
2.Support topic transpiring into Off-topic. Forum members are easily distracted and wander into off-topic thereby hijacking the thread. There should be moderator warning and rules regarding this.
3.Rants should be either banned or frowned upon. Rants and bikeshed topics are never productive.
4.Too much ubuntu hate here. Respect other distros.
5. Respect other users, even if you disagree with them.

appropriate Mod warning when the forum rules are broken.

I would have to say one of the finest forum guidelines are here
LENOVO Y580 CORE i7 3630QM|8 GB RAM |16GB Sandisk SSD| Debian, Fedora, ARCH

Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with. - Steven King

Randicus
Posts: 2663
Joined: 2011-05-08 09:11

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#42 Post by Randicus »

hadrons123 wrote:I would have to say one of the finest forum guidelines are here
I believe in having rules and enforcing them. I believe in dictatorship and detest democracy, but pointing to those guidelines forces me to write a cynwulf-style opinion. I hate you hadrons. :lol:
Threads stating the equivalent of "there is a problem with the Arch system and methodology, we need to discuss it" have been repeatedly proven ineffective and inflammatory and will usually be locked after a warning from the moderation team. Arch is a Do It Yourself community. If you have identified a systemic issue, find a solution that works for you, implement it, then post.
This is the system. If you do not like it shut up or leave. Followed by:
Furthermore, questioning or discussing the methods used by the Arch Linux development team will be monitored closely and locked if deemed unhelpful and/or unproductive. Harsh, unproductive criticism is also uncalled for.

Members are not allowed to discuss, let alone question, the development team? That is too despotic even for me. :shock: How can people who use the system contribute to its development if they are not allowed to provide feedback? Again, love it or leave. A Microsoft-like attitude.
Power-posting is best described as posting empty and worthless messages. It is not tolerated. People may have two reasons to do this: to increase their post count meaninglessly, or to lend support to an idea as if it were a vote. Examples of power-posting include, but are not limited to, replying with "+1", "lol", "me too", "I agree", or ":)".
I give someone advise. If you state you believe my advise is good, you are censured?

I regard that set of guidelines as overbearing, oppressive and arrogant on the part of the administrators. A much better example would be the FreeBSD forum. Their rules are too strict for most of the members of this forum, but they are at least logical and tolerable. I hate to borrow cynwulf's words, but the Arch rules treat the members like children and stifle debate. Those rules are obviously meant to create a technical question and answer forum "unpolluted" by "fruitless" discussion. That is too much, even for a believer in iron-fisted rule.

User avatar
hadrons123
Posts: 59
Joined: 2012-01-31 09:58
Location: NYC

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#43 Post by hadrons123 »

What is the purpose of the debian forum?
There should be definition of what it is and what it is not.

Unproductive posting, threads are obviously not going to help the distro. So you have to be strict by your methods and it doesnt matter if it involves iron fist or not.
LENOVO Y580 CORE i7 3630QM|8 GB RAM |16GB Sandisk SSD| Debian, Fedora, ARCH

Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with. - Steven King

cynwulf

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#44 Post by cynwulf »

hadron, only an idiot would attempt to run a message board as you've described due to the potential workload you'd generate... the entire concept is out of touch with reality. For every rule there are several rules lawyers to pull it apart... you'd need a lot more staff and more rules for enforcement of the rules, etc. Also that type of board assumes the participants aren't adults, but idiots... the more you hold people's hands the stupider they get and the more stupid people join... those capable of independent though (hint: they tend to be the more useful members) leave... the end result is a forum full of copy and paste artists and trolls - and because there are more rules, users are far more likely to break them... it's a vicious cycle.

I'm not adverse to having some "rules" as long as those rules are enforced fairly. At present we have an administration who simply don't care - as evidenced by this thread - and we've seen a member permanently banned for something trivial, while there are troll accounts here who have been enjoying free reign. So it seems like that at the moment the rules are enforced on "when I feel like it" basis.

confuseling, maybe read the thread and recognise that your post is also "so much bloody drama"? No one mentioned totalitarianism or trying to make this forum like the other one... and also:
confuseling wrote:I'll happily sign up to something better if you manage to arrange it, but I've not seen it yet.
So... someone else or some other group have to "arrange" this for you...? A new forum can be what you make it. If you are looking for one I would welcome you to join up at the other forum.

Randicus
Posts: 2663
Joined: 2011-05-08 09:11

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#45 Post by Randicus »

hadrons123 wrote:What is the purpose of the debian forum?
There should be definition of what it is and what it is not.

Unproductive posting, threads are obviously not going to help the distro. So you have to be strict by your methods and it doesnt matter if it involves iron fist or not.
That is why I personally favour the model of technical and discussion sections. A serious technical section only for questions and information related to the installation and administration of the OS. No off-topic discussions, no rants, no foolishness of any kind. And a discussion area for discussion, both serious and light-hearted.

That being said, to answer the question, "What is the purpose of the debian forum?", if I was king of the world, the purpose of the forum would be to provide assistance to members of the Debian users community, one part of that function being the amassing of useful information; the promotion of Debian; and a place where Debian users could have friendly discussions. It would involve keeping the light-hearted discussions, banter and non-technical debates in the Discussion area, and reserving the Technical area for technical subjects.

Of course, there will be a few who dislike such a model, because it would involve two sets of rules. Before any complaints of that nature are made, let it be known that I already disagree with those opinions.

User avatar
hadrons123
Posts: 59
Joined: 2012-01-31 09:58
Location: NYC

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#46 Post by hadrons123 »

@cynwulf
About Workload : hire more people. Debian forums has more registration of new members in a single day second only to ubuntu.So More members on the roll.Call out for hiring!.( Offcourse its going to be volunteers. No one will be paid, I know.) There are 47 mods in ubuntu. We have only handful of people right now to moderate this great distro.
Initially I hated the rules in arch linux forums. I felt it too arrogant. But honestly , I saw more cultured and wise people in Arch forums. People do their homework, before posting a thread for support. On the contrary Debian says 'RTFM' type of talk is not allowed. But as far I have seen no one has been or shall be ridiculed in Arch linux forums when you show the willingness to learn. Newbies most likely be harassed only when they demand for help rather than trying to learn. That attitude comes to people , I don't know maybe after using Ubuntu.The number of active threads per day in Arch is higher than fedora and Debian inspite of no ranting and very less off-topic and too much schooling. But debian is a more polished distro, so less breakages on the whole, as the need for support is comparatively less. But forums has to be a place where people can get tech support and not a lobby for hang-out and rant.
Also that type of board assumes the participants aren't adults, but idiots... the more you hold people's hands the stupider they get and the more stupid people join... those capable of independent though (hint: they tend to be the more useful members) leave... the end result is a forum full of copy and paste artists and trolls - and because there are more rules, users are far more likely to break them... it's a vicious cycle.
I don't get which one you are reffering to. But better give me an example. Becoz the FreeBSD and Arch linux are more strict in their ways they run the forums with more rules, but their threads are very informative.

I honestly think Debian has lot of potential than any other linux distros out there. But making this forum a better place would definitely would bring more people using this distro. I would be happy to volunteer !
LENOVO Y580 CORE i7 3630QM|8 GB RAM |16GB Sandisk SSD| Debian, Fedora, ARCH

Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with. - Steven King

MALsPa
Posts: 678
Joined: 2007-12-07 19:20
Location: albuquerque
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#47 Post by MALsPa »

Mez wrote:What would you do to improve this forum?
Provide a preview of the original post when the cursor hovers over the topic title.

Randicus
Posts: 2663
Joined: 2011-05-08 09:11

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#48 Post by Randicus »

hadrons123 wrote:Debian forums has more registration of new members in a single day second only to ubuntu.So More members on the roll.Call out for hiring!.
The problem is, most of the "new members" are spammers.

As for potential staff, look through the threads and observed who is posting. How many "active" members are there? There are a few people who post every day, a few more who post occasionally, and a few more who seldom post. There are probably only about a dozen daily posters (and I do not count, because I do not have enough knowledge to be very helpful) and another dozen regulars.

Again, until the administrators take enough interest to install spam-fighting software, no one will volunteer for a housekeeping job. I would volunteer my time to be a moderator or spam hunter, if it would do any good. But it would not, with an absent group of administrators who do not feel the forum is worthy of attention, even the small amount of attention required to tackle the spam problem.
People will volunteer to bail water out of a leaking ship if the leaks are being sealed, but they will not volunteer to bail on a sinking ship when the captain is sitting in a pub on shore.

MALsPA wrote,
Provide a preview of the original post when the cursor hovers over the topic title.
That is a good idea. I find it very helpful on other fora.

User avatar
hadrons123
Posts: 59
Joined: 2012-01-31 09:58
Location: NYC

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#49 Post by hadrons123 »

@randicus.
Too bad for the debianforums, if what you say is true.
Really sucks!
LENOVO Y580 CORE i7 3630QM|8 GB RAM |16GB Sandisk SSD| Debian, Fedora, ARCH

Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with. - Steven King

cynwulf

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#50 Post by cynwulf »

hadrons123 wrote:@cynwulf
About Workload : hire more people.
The administration don't care - thus people are not getting "hired"...
hadrons123 wrote:Debian forums has more registration of new members in a single day second only to ubuntu.
Most are spambots... http://forums.debian.net/memberlist.php ... memberlist
hadrons123 wrote:There are 47 mods in ubuntu. We have only handful of people right now to moderate this great distro.
More people are not needed, what is needed is more help from the administration. Two mods and a few spamhunters are enough. Although I disagree with cragievil's ban of sossego, I do accept that the moderators are volunteers who do not seem to be getting much support from the administration. This has been the case for quite a while... it may also explain why so many staff have left in the last few years?
hadrons123 wrote:But as far I have seen no one has been or shall be ridiculed in Arch linux forums when you show the willingness to learn.
The same goes for this forum.
hadrons123 wrote:Newbies most likely be harassed only when they demand for help rather than trying to learn. That attitude comes to people , I don't know maybe after using Ubuntu.
Precisely - and that's how it is here.
hadrons123 wrote:The number of active threads per day in Arch is higher than fedora and Debian inspite of no ranting and very less off-topic and too much schooling. But debian is a more polished distro, so less breakages on the whole, as the need for support is comparatively less.
Debian is more stable distro, but apart from that - I agree completely.
hadrons123 wrote:But forums has to be a place where people can get tech support and not a lobby for hang-out and rant.
People are getting "tech support". This is the "feedback forums", feedback was requested and given.
hadrons123 wrote:I honestly think Debian has lot of potential than any other linux distros out there. But making this forum a better place would definitely would bring more people using this distro. I would be happy to volunteer !
Except your proposals won't make this forum a better place... and are pointless anyway when the admins have made it clear they're not interested.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to wish bestpharmacystore a happy 41st birthday.... oh and vbrummond (22) as well...

vbrummond
Posts: 4432
Joined: 2010-03-02 01:42

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#51 Post by vbrummond »

cynwulf wrote:I'd also like to take this opportunity to wish bestpharmacystore a happy 41st birthday.... oh and vbrummond (22) as well...
Haha, thanks very much. :mrgreen:
Always on Debian Testing


User avatar
nadir
Posts: 5961
Joined: 2009-10-05 22:06
Location: away

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#53 Post by nadir »

hadrons123 wrote:What is the purpose of the debian forum?
There should be definition of what it is and what it is not.
Put the fun back in computing. No?

The more i hear about arschlinux, the less i like it.
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.

confuseling
Posts: 2121
Joined: 2009-10-21 01:03

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#54 Post by confuseling »

Yes, that was more bloody drama. I was tired, had a few drinks, stressed at work.

I just find the whole thing sad, because clearly a lot of people care about this forum a great deal.

Sorry all, have fun...
The Forum's search box is terrible. Use site specific search, e.g.
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A ... terms+here

vbrummond
Posts: 4432
Joined: 2010-03-02 01:42

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#55 Post by vbrummond »

dasein wrote:Happy Birthday, vb!
Thank you!
Always on Debian Testing

caulfield
Posts: 122
Joined: 2012-01-08 19:35
Location: Joy

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#56 Post by caulfield »

What i was thinking was having some sort of a cafe, a subforum dedicated to "hanging out" and building a community feeling even with us, technically less equipped. I think that one subforum like that wouldn't overload things. Hope it's not a too dumb suggestion, i'm not trying to make anyone feel idiotic.


best wishes!
"Smokey, this is not 'nam, this is bowling. There are rules!"

User avatar
golinux
Posts: 1579
Joined: 2010-12-09 00:56
Location: not a 'buntard!
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#57 Post by golinux »

caulfield wrote:What i was thinking was having some sort of a cafe, a subforum dedicated to "hanging out" and building a community feeling even with us, technically less equipped. I think that one subforum like that wouldn't overload things. Hope it's not a too dumb suggestion, i'm not trying to make anyone feel idiotic.
Good lord . . . they have a Gerber section here for the 'technically less equipped' so why not a social place too? . . . erm . . . because it isn't a very tolerant social environment that can't handle Sossego's flights of fancy or Ahtiga's paranoia or . . .
May the FORK be with you!

User avatar
golinux
Posts: 1579
Joined: 2010-12-09 00:56
Location: not a 'buntard!
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#58 Post by golinux »

dasein wrote:Happy Birthday, vb!
He's such a pup!
May the FORK be with you!

Randicus
Posts: 2663
Joined: 2011-05-08 09:11

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#59 Post by Randicus »

caulfield wrote:What i was thinking was having some sort of a cafe, a subforum dedicated to "hanging out" and building a community feeling even with us, technically less equipped. I think that one subforum like that wouldn't overload things. Hope it's not a too dumb suggestion, i'm not trying to make anyone feel idiotic.


best wishes!
The Off-Topic sub-forum could easily be that. Since there is a sub-forum for general discussion, make off-topic exactly that. There is no need to restrict it to computer-related topics. Doing so, in realty, means there are two sub-fora for general discussion of computer issues. Why? Let Off-Topic be a place for leisurely discussion of whatever interests people.

JohnDeere730
Posts: 94
Joined: 2011-09-08 03:24

Re: How would you improve this forum?

#60 Post by JohnDeere730 »

Randicus wrote:
caulfield wrote:What i was thinking was having some sort of a cafe, a subforum dedicated to "hanging out" and building a community feeling even with us, technically less equipped. I think that one subforum like that wouldn't overload things. Hope it's not a too dumb suggestion, i'm not trying to make anyone feel idiotic.


best wishes!
The Off-Topic sub-forum could easily be that. Since there is a sub-forum for general discussion, make off-topic exactly that. There is no need to restrict it to computer-related topics. Doing so, in realty, means there are two sub-fora for general discussion of computer issues. Why? Let Off-Topic be a place for leisurely discussion of whatever interests people.
Eureka! What a concept....a place where you will not be scolded for being off-topic in a sub-forum titled.....wait for it......"OFF-TOPIC"......Now why didn't I think of that? Oh, wait, I did; about 5 years ago. Hasn't happened yet, but I'm still waiting with bated breath. Of course, in a few more years, I'll be waiting with no breath at all 'coz I'll be dead of old age. You dewy-eyed youngsters crack me up :lol: This whole thread is an exercise in futility and impotence, but what the hell; it's a slow night at the ol' homestead.

Post Reply