Debian Devel Mailing List
links aplenty, further on, to messages from that list ]
Having this information:
When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-9 ... ml#7593370
pasting that important info over here:
and searching on DuckDuckGo.com gave me:steveL wrote:Well one of them; I'm sure there are people working on at least one or two distros without systemd, at least as an option. Even on debian, you can use systemd-must-die (search that name on the debian dev mailing-list) from mirabilos, who's one of the leads on mirBSD and supports mksh which he maintains upstream, on debian.miroR wrote:I studied this entire topic, and Gentoo is likely really the last defence against this defeat that happened to GNU/Linux.
...[snip]...
How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?
renamed: Pinning vs. conflicting
renamed: sysvinit is still here, and here to stay for jessie (was Re: systemd is here to stay, get over it now)
[ and maybe one more rename there was that I lost by now ]
start of the entire thread:
From:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2 ... html#00010
I've read the whole thread, understood most of it...
But I was hoping, since reading that thread (even more so if digesting whatever information on top of what's in the text, is linked to from the messages of the thread, which I haven't yet, and may not, fully study), is at least a few hours worth of effort, which not many readers would like to have to go through...
And I was hoping, in that light, and given the likelihood that other Forum readers will be there who will feel like me, and that is who will not want to stay with a systemd-based Jessie Debian GNU/Linux, [was hoping that] those users would find it useful, if I try and summarize what, for our purposes is the necessary information to (I'll use now the term that Gentoo developers use in the README of the eudev package, which is a way in Gentoo to avoid "poetteringware", another term used a lot in Gentoo circles), to "isolate" systemd from the system init and boot process, and avoid its and its comrades' installation in our Debian GNU/Linux machines.
So, according to my understanding, the following is the information on the debian developers' list, that is needed, to:
Avoid stealth installation of systemd
###################################################
# Solution maybe not as good as the other below: #
###################################################
From:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2 ... 00012.html
vitalif at yourcmc dot ru wrote: I think you can just put
in your /etc/apt/preferences...Code: Select all
Package: systemd Pin: origin "" Pin-Priority: -1
From:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2 ... 00119.html
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2 ... 00123.html
You have to drop one file (you may even call it the same name that you'd useJuliusz Chroboczek wrote:- conflicting packages are honoured by dpkg, unlike pinning;You have not yet explained why apt pinning is not enough.
- a package can conflict with multiple packages, while you need
multiple pinning entries;
for the conflicting package) into /etc/apt/preferences.d/. That file can
pin as many packages as you want.
Anyone who knows about (let alone is interested in) a packageJuliusz Chroboczek wrote: - there's a number of user-friendly frontends to apt, while pinning
requires using a text editor (the horror!).
conflicting with systemd is most certainly able to drop a file into a
directory.
[/quote]
From:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2 ... 00127.html
Thorsten Glaser wrote: Right. Furthermore, pinning can be used by the local admin,
without namespacing pin priorities or somesuch, so it's not
something packages should do.
There is another benefit: conflicting packages allow all
package managers' resolvers to find nice dependency chains,
they can be cleanly removed, and they show up in dpkg.log
(and apt/term.log if apt is used to install them).
#######################################################
# Solution probably better than the one above: #
#######################################################
From:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2 ... 00018.html
Lots more talk follows, and a mite closer to whatever the solution finally ended up to be (if it has), seems to be here:Wookey wrote: Ah yes. E-busy. Just uploaded 'prevent-systemd'. Whilst it's sat in NEW, you can get it from:
http://wookware.org/software/repo/
i.e.You get a choice of 'prevent-systemd' which stops it running as initCode: Select all
deb http://wookware.org/software/repo/ sid main
but allows the -shim and libpam packages so that logind and the like
will work. Or 'systemd-must-die' which conflicts with everything
systemdish. There may be a need for an intermediate package too, but
lets see how this goes for people.
Wookey
From:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2 ... 00078.html
Wookey wrote:OK. I did rename the source package, but I liked the binary and thoughtLars Wirzenius wrote:Wookey,Wookey wrote: You get a choice of 'prevent-systemd' which stops it running as init
but allows the -shim and libpam packages so that logind and the like
will work. Or 'systemd-must-die' which conflicts with everything
systemdish.
Please rename the systemd-must-die package to something neutral. Thank
you.
anyone else who actually wanted this would enjoy it too, so it seemed
appropriate despite not being entirely 'PC'.
I think some people are failing to see the humour in this name
(and Dawkins knows we could use some humour round this subject), but I
guess if it's not going to be allowed then it's not going to be
allowed.
Wookey
--
Principal hats: Linaro, Emdebian, Wookware, Balloonboard, ARM
http://wookware.org/
From:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2 ... 00223.html
Thorsten Glaser wrote: OT: prevent-systemd-*_9_all.deb are in my repo. Wookey, feel
free to use the changes I made as suggestions for yours.
As usual, Origin/Bugs are repo-specific, and to be removed
for the main archive.
bye,
//mirabilos
None of the above statements/attitudes/ways-to-go/other have found consesus among the DDs (Debian Developers), and the packages prevent-systemd / systemd-must-die I don't know how to use them to accomplish the purpose of living without systemd. It's now one month and more later, not such long time later on...
I support this view:
From:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2 ... 00137.html
Thorsten Glaser wrote: Furthermore, the TC(-chairman) decision only was the default
init system for the Linux ports of jessie. This means that
• installing jessie with other init systems
• switching between init systems
• default init system for kFreeBSD ports
• default init system for Hurd port
• which non-default init systems are there?
are still on the table. (Due to Debian’s requirements for sane
upgrades, running a jessie system that was upgraded from an older
release with sysvinit MUST be fully supported, anyway.)
That statement has not found any consensus either.
I'm on the most used of all, the AMD64 system, and I suppose many other amd64 Debian users will want to be able to choose systemd-free install.
The above, is the gist for anyone who is not necessarily interested in reading how the Debian Developers fight it out for the right (IMO: non-systemd, or systemd-free) or the wrong causes (IMO: anything that generally windozes GNU/Linux, most notably poetteringware, after Lennart Pöttering).
I hope the above will reduce the reading time of the original thread for at least some users.
After all, not even Lennart Pöttering himself read the whole story, and it's not at all so repetitive, just too detailed and really very polarized, with lots of conflicting views/attitudes/you-name-it for someone who wants to just find the solution (which is IMO: live systemd-free, and generally poetteringware-free). I didn't read his own article any much further than the beginning, really:
https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetter ... RmiAQsW9qf
I researched a little further, just a little more has become clear to me, in the sense of, what end those packages (prevent-systemd / systemd-must-die) may have made, where they can be gotten from, and installed, such as on my AMD64 systems, are they available in Jessie or not... just a little.
So, I plan to post more on this quest of mine. Next.
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr
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