operating systems without systemd

[Linadian]

Yes Kali may some day use systemd and yes fruitofloom my not think it worthy, but it is an OS without systemd... as specified by the OP.

You are right, if I appeared abrasive, my apologies, I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at the box full of tools, aka the Debian leadership.

I just built this machine and was looking forward to a fast box with no headaches for the next 5 years or so, Debian was my #1 distro of choice, now I have to scramble to find a suitable alternative. I dumped Windows because of 'mystery-ware', I'm not having yet another corporation (Redshat) shove more mystery-ware down my throat.

I know, I'm repeating myself now but this is serious, it's not fully proven software, it's not user friendly, it takes over your OS like a bad virus, it enables your OS to crash because it's a control freak (it wants to do everything and be everything, exactly what was wrong with svchost in Windows), that's what attracted me to Linux, things ran OUTSIDE the kernel, now Redshat and Poettering are spreading this mystery-ware crash-tool like wildfire. PC-BSD is looking better everyday, part of the BSD model is to implement well proven software in increments, not this adopt any garbage for any reason bull$#1+, like in Linux-land.

It's just a matter of time until some 12 year old pimply faced kid finds an exploit in this buggy monstrosity, then watch everybody drop it like a hot potato, or adopt uselessd, which is the balanced solution, maintained by the community and compatible with the Poettering blob, which potentially could be or become NSA-ware.

I'm gunna do a test install of PC-BSD on my old machine, get my feet wet, this Debian install is still good to surf the web for BSD tips and tricks, lol, that's about it, once the BSD learning curve is over, I'm outta here.

My tinfoil hat is on fire again, lol, it seems the powers that be want everybody using stupid, ugly, bizarre Gnome with virusd under the hood, I'd rather take an axe to my PC first.

Edit: Here is another option as suggested in a debianuserforums.org post, try Debian with the kFreeBSD kernel. To quote Bob Marley, "Exodus, movement of Jah people", lol.

Edit 2: Status of Xfce (default) and other DEs on Debian kFreeBSD 7.7 (Wheezy).

Edit 3: NO virusd in debian-7.7.0-kfreebsd-amd64-DVD-1.iso. Use a mirror, it's a way faster download than the main Debian server. Edit 4: The Debian Wheezy kFreeBSD net install would probably be a better bet (if your nic is supported on boot that is). The net install md5sum is here, scroll down (this page may become obsolete in the future, always match the file name with the md5 supplied).


Edit 5: This is an interesting read (a little schizophrenic considering what's happening with the Linux arm of Debian), Why would you prefer Debian GNU/kFreeBSD to Debian GNU/Linux?.

Edit 6: More Debian Wheezy kFreeBSD good news, there's a deb-multimedia.org kfreebsd-amd64 wheezy/stable repo (no 'non-free' though, only 'main'). Big plus for me.

[fruitofloom]

Yes Kali may some day use systemd and yes fruitofloom my not think it worthy, but it is an OS without systemd... as specified by the OP.

If it makes you happy i will add it to the list now, adding a note that it isn't what most people are looking for if looking for a distro.
Mainly cause i am not in the mood to discuss it ...

[golinux]

. . . it seems the powers that be want everybody using stupid, ugly, bizarre Gnome with virusd under the hood, I'd rather take an axe to my PC first.

That has to be the "Quote of the Day". Would be a great sig.

[Linadian]

. . . it seems the powers that be want everybody using stupid, ugly, bizarre Gnome with virusd under the hood, I'd rather take an axe to my PC first.

That has to be the "Quote of the Day". Would be a great sig.

Thank you. Sometimes I just blurt out the way I feel, shut what little 'filter' I have off, lol. The sig suggestion is a great idea, just may take you up on that.

[golinux]

. . . it seems the powers that be want everybody using stupid, ugly, bizarre Gnome with virusd under the hood, I'd rather take an axe to my PC first.

That has to be the "Quote of the Day". Would be a great sig.

Thank you. Sometimes I just blurt out the way I feel, shut what little 'filter' I have off, lol. The sig suggestion is a great idea, just may take you up on that.

In with both feet huh?! You could tone down the formatting a bit . . .

[edbarx]

I have just tried to install SID on a free partition to try removing systemd. The installation completed with some problems but it was completed successfully. However, when I booted the installation several daemons failed to load or reported errors. There were more than five red errors during systemd's booting sequence! After that, I replaced systemd with sysvinit in a chroot notwithstanding the DDs are becoming allergic to support chroot. Ignoring all the warnings that systemd is a core component, I typed "Do, as I say!" and proceeded. Then, I installed sysvinit, and oddly enough, this stale old initialisation package worked without the least shred of errors!

The problem with systemd is that it is still ALPHA grade software: Debian deserves far better than that!

My next move will be to upgrade the test Jessie installation to SID to conduct more experiments on the removal of systemd.

[fruitofloom]

The thread was supposed to offer a list of
"operating systems without systemd"
not about discussing good or bad things about systemd
(those discussions are getting old).

Imho:
You can run Sid and Testing without systemd and libsystemd0, but it is a dirty workaround and you don't know when it will fail on you.
Right now it might work. In two weeks it might be possible no more.

That is: For people who already decided to give up on Debian GNU/*Linux*.
Hence i put it in the offtopic section.
It is related to Debian in so far as it is for people who used Debian in the past. And now are looking for better solutions.

---
In general i think a thread should take it's own course, whatever it's original intend might have been.
Just saying.

[golinux]

It's easy to get all these systemd threads confused . . .

[fruitofloom]

Heck, i even start to complain at places where pretty much no one knows what that Linux thing is ...
(and sure not about the difference between distros, or init-systems, or such ).

So yes:
I think what edbarx tries is possible (for sure if libsystemd0 gives no worries). Probably a good idea too.
Not sure how hard it will be in the long run. Not sure if it is worth it.
Hence i decided to leave Debian. Might well be i will be back (as soon there is a serious change according to the main problem: systemd).

[Linadian]

". . . it seems the powers that be want everybody using stupid, ugly, bizarre Gnome with virusd under the hood, I'd rather take an axe to my PC first."

That has to be the "Quote of the Day". Would be a great sig.

In with both feet huh?! You could tone down the formatting a bit . . .

Yeah, you have a point, lol, will do.

[Linadian]

The thread was supposed to offer a list of
"operating systems without systemd"
not about discussing good or bad things about systemd
(those discussions are getting old).

I am trying to stay on topic, sorry, speaking of that, I'm seriously eyeballing Debian Wheezy kFreeBSD, same distro without the Linux drama.

[golinux]

. . . I'm seriously eyeballing Debian Wheezy kFreeBSD, same distro without the Linux drama.

Guess you missed this. kFreeBSD might not be around for long . . .

kFreeBSD
========

We remain gravely concerned about the viability of this port. Despite
the reduced scope, we feel that the port is not currently of sufficient
quality to feature as a fully supported release architecture in Jessie.
However, we accept that our published view of the port has not been as
'clear and unambiguous' as we would wish.

We therefore advise the kFreeBSD porters that the port is in danger of
being dropped from Jessie, and invite any porters who are able to commit
to working on the port in the long term to make themselves known *now*.
The factor that gives us greatest concern is the human resources
available to the port.

Porters of any architecture need to bear in mind that being part of a
stable release is a long commitment to both taking care of stable and
oldstable, and continuing development in sid. It has implications for
the security team, release team, DSA and other parties.

The urgency of this matter cannot be over-stated. We will assess the
viability of kFreeBSD in Jessie on or after 1st November, and a yes/no
decision will be taken at that time. This will not be a full
architecture qualification, but a simple decision on whether or not the
release team's concerns have been adequately addressed.

[Linadian]

. . . I'm seriously eyeballing Debian Wheezy kFreeBSD, same distro without the Linux drama.

Guess you missed this. kFreeBSD might not be around for long . . .

DAMN! There goes the wind out of that sail.

Looks like it's off to Gen/Funtoo, Slack/Slax/Salix land or PC-BSD.

Thanks for the heads up, was just about to set up my old machine on the dining-room table to do a Debian kFreeBSD test net install, might as well not bother now, at least not with the Debian disk, have a PC-BSD install disk ready and waiting. Unfortunately, PC-BSD's default desktop is KDE, which I dumped a while back for Xfce, oh well, at least I know KDE inside and out already.

This is depressing the $#1+ out of me.

[harrycaul]

PC-BSD now offers a full selection of DEs, including Lumina.

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=117620

[Linadian]

PC-BSD now offers a full selection of DEs, including Lumina.

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=117620

Thanks for that. Another reason to use PC-BSD is their kernel version is a full version better (10 as opposed to Debian's 9), it's more likely to get along with our hardware.

[fruitofloom]

To me the announcement about kFreeBSD only states that it will not be an official release.
In the past i didn't care if Hurd or kFreeBSD were official releases or not.
After the official release of sysdebian i sure couldn't care less what Debian releases officially
(in the past an official release granted a certain amount of quality)

Not sure what is going on with the according Gentoo ports.

Imho:
If one wants a longtime solution, then one of the BSD's is the way to go.
If one only wants to change from Debian Linux, from systemd, then it doesn't matter if one uses, example, Gentoo/Slackware, or Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. For the former the future without systemd is not granted, for the latter the mere existence is not granted at all (though, imho, it can be expected it still will be there).

[Linadian]

Not sure what is going on with the according Gentoo ports.

Not good, from Distrowatch's Gentoo 20140826 package list...
• sysstat-11.0.0
• Sys-Syslog-0.330.0-r1
• system-config-printer-common-1.4.3
• system-config-printer-gnome-1.4.3-r1
• systemd-215-r3
• systemsettings-4.11.11
• sysvinit-2.88-r7
• taglib-1.9.1-r2
• taglib-extras-1.0.1
• tali-3.12.2

I think you are right, something Slack* or a *BSD is the way to go, the last bastions of sanity. Bye Debhat.

[fruitofloom]

Nah, gentoo's default init system is still openrc.

With ports i meant the one with hurd and the one with freebsd as a kernel. Not if you can run Gentoo without systemd (of course you can:.

Code: Select all

gentoo-laptop user # uname -r
3.14.16-gentoo
gentoo-laptop user # equery l systemd
!!! No installed packages matching 'systemd'
 * Searching for systemd ...
gentoo-laptop user # equery l openrc 
 * Searching for openrc ...
[IP-] [  ] sys-apps/openrc-0.12.4:0

)

[Linadian]

+1 for Salix Xfce here. I also like their Sourcery GUI for slapt-src.

Been using Salix myself since August or so. I had installed Slackware a few times and began exploring their documentation, then discovered Salix -- since I cut my teeth on Debian, its dependency resolution made sense. Also using the Xfce version. spi is nice, checks for both binary packages and available slackbuilds.

I just burned and am posting live from the newly released (Nov 4/14) official (not beta) Salix 14.1 Xfce Live amd64 DVD (790MB) (from this Salix forum post:"Sadly, the Xfce edition has grown in size and it can no longer fit in a single CD, so you now need a DVD if you want to burn it to an optical medium"), n neeee waaaay...it's a blast, you folks are right about Salix being a great distro with great tools, I was looking in gslapt for DVD authoring apps (DeVeDe, DVDStyler, Bombono), there was only Handbrake, I got discouraged until I opened Sourcery, what a great tool! Sourcery compiled and installed Bombono while live! The only CL I saw was the output window, lol. This live DVD is really loving my new machine (see sig), good graphics, nice and quiet (cooling fans are idling). I think I found my Debhat replacement, unfortunately it doesn't 'see' the Raid controller but who cares, I'll take one SSD out and put it in my old machine and load Salix on it too, the six (yes, six) clunky HDDs will be storage (1.5TB in the new machine and 1.2TB in the old machine). I'm tired of the virusd drama already and I'm acting now. I left Windows because of proprietary software dictatorship(s), it's a slippery slope, I hate slippery slopes, too dang slimey!

This is why I love live versions of distros, kick the tires, instead of wasting time, brain cells (what little I have left, lol) and nerves.

Check out all the panel goodies in the pic below, love those monitors!
Click on the image after it loads to go full size...


I tried Mint 17 Xfce on my old machine but it just felt too buggy, bloated and 'dirty' (sys-buntu-d, two jabs with one stick, lol). Mint-buntu-d is for timid n00bs, Salix is right up my lean and mean alley, no muss, no fuss, right to the point, a clean and stable OS.

Edit: I like watching the Sourcery output, it's quite interesting to see how apps/packages are built, I hate the way everybody wants to hide anything CL now, that keeps the sheeples uninformed.

[Linadian]

Here's another virusd free distro for your list fruitofloom, Stella, see this post for more info. It's based on CentOS 6 which is supported to 2020 and has multimedia extras, etc.

Edit: See the screenshot and commentary in the above mentioned post link, Stella 6.6 is going on my old machine for sure!