Scheduled Maintenance: We are aware of an issue with Google, AOL, and Yahoo services as email providers which are blocking new registrations. We are trying to fix the issue and we have several internal and external support tickets in process to resolve the issue. Please see: viewtopic.php?t=158230

 

 

 

nothing here

Here you can discuss every aspect of Debian. Note: not for support requests!
Message
Author
mean_dean
Posts: 132
Joined: 2014-12-29 18:21

nothing here

#1 Post by mean_dean »

systemd is just one change of a million that has been made in the past five years...why fight it...
Last edited by mean_dean on 2015-01-27 06:48, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
keithpeter
Posts: 502
Joined: 2009-06-14 08:06
Location: 5230n 0155w

Re: debian jessie - no systemd - no 3rd party

#2 Post by keithpeter »

Nice howto. More of a bird's eye view than my Old-School desktop (see sig) and I'll add those apt config settings (with a link back to this) when I next edit my page.

What about printing? Anyone know how to set up printing without cups using lpr/lpd and filters for non PS printers? That should cut out all the dbus stuff.

I can live with pmount for USB sticks but I need to print!

mean_dean
Posts: 132
Joined: 2014-12-29 18:21

Re: debian jessie - no systemd - no 3rd party

#3 Post by mean_dean »

keithpeter wrote:my Old-School desktop (see sig)

Nice! I like it!

If you reboot before trying to remove systemd then you wont get errors...



And pmount doesnt need the /dev part you can just do pmount sdb1
Pmount can also be used for hard drive partitions, check out the /etc/pmount.allow file where you define devices you want to allow a user to mount.
What about printing?
I havent played with that as I never print anything.

Bulkley
Posts: 6384
Joined: 2006-02-11 18:35
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: debian jessie - no systemd - no 3rd party

#4 Post by Bulkley »

keithpeter wrote:What about printing? Anyone know how to set up printing without cups using lpr/lpd and filters for non PS printers? That should cut out all the dbus stuff.
I understand that it is relatively easy to set up if you have a postscript printer and very difficult if you don't.

User avatar
woteb
Posts: 124
Joined: 2009-01-24 09:51
Location: Netherlands (Veluwe)

Re: debian jessie - no systemd - no 3rd party

#5 Post by woteb »

Well done gentlemen!!! I've read this and executed it on a Virtualbox Debian Testing machine. I've done this with a new barbone system (minimal with a modified /etc/apt configuration and systemv installed) and on an existed system with a complete XFCE4 system with systemd (and cups-pdf) aready installed. On that last machine I've removed systemd with the installation of the systemv packages. CUPS continued to work. I will test or I can install cupf-pdf on that barbone systemv machine, but I think now that cups-pdf give no problems.

I understand that your way of installing is ideally for servers and (very) lightweight systems. Servers don't need a gui and with your approach servers can run without systemd and running on the old-way systemv.
Laptops: HP 250 G6 i3 7th gen + Lenovo: Debian Testing XFCE
HP based chromebooks: Debian Testing and other variations
"The simple reality of the matter is that Debian is essentially the backbone of Linux - for all practical purposes."

Deb-fan
Posts: 1047
Joined: 2012-08-14 12:27
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: debian jessie - no systemd - no 3rd party

#6 Post by Deb-fan »

Just another thanks for the how 2, Mean_Dean.

Think it's cool to see a Debian user who doesn't want systemd, taking control of their system and figuring out an effective way to do it. Thanks for sharing.

:)
Most powerful FREE tech-support tool on the planet * HERE. *

mean_dean
Posts: 132
Joined: 2014-12-29 18:21

Re: debian jessie - no systemd - no 3rd party

#7 Post by mean_dean »

welcome

think I am going to update it and add how to block just the init system as well...

n_hologram
Posts: 459
Joined: 2013-06-16 00:10

Re: debian jessie - no systemd - no 3rd party

#8 Post by n_hologram »

woteb wrote:I've read this and executed it [ ... ] and on an existed system with a complete XFCE4...
I didn't see any XFCE programs in mean_dean's list (though it looks like LXDE is pretty much there). To save me the time of replicating these steps, are you confirming that XFCE can be safely installed/utilized with this method (ie, sans-systemd)?
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

mean_dean
Posts: 132
Joined: 2014-12-29 18:21

Re: debian jessie - no systemd - no 3rd party

#9 Post by mean_dean »

depends on what you call systemd

if you are willing to have systemd libs then you can install just about anything...if you do not want to install libsystemd then you got the list above to choose from


but you can avoid libs and still install many things including xfce if you use some other repos - http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=119836

User avatar
woteb
Posts: 124
Joined: 2009-01-24 09:51
Location: Netherlands (Veluwe)

Re: debian jessie - no systemd - no 3rd party

#10 Post by woteb »

@N_Hologram: Yes, I wroto that posting from a testlaptop running Jessie without systemd and with de XFCE desktop. I've a nearly equal instlallation on that Jessie system as my work Wheezy system. I can only report at this moment that GVFS is a problem. That's asking for systemd and I will look for an working alternative for that.
The test laptop with Jessy no-systemd is running just as rapid as my existing Wheezy work system. I installed only the basic XFCE stuff.
Laptops: HP 250 G6 i3 7th gen + Lenovo: Debian Testing XFCE
HP based chromebooks: Debian Testing and other variations
"The simple reality of the matter is that Debian is essentially the backbone of Linux - for all practical purposes."

n_hologram
Posts: 459
Joined: 2013-06-16 00:10

Re: nothing here

#11 Post by n_hologram »

Why did the original howto disappear?
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

mean_dean
Posts: 132
Joined: 2014-12-29 18:21

Re: nothing here

#12 Post by mean_dean »

Wow! I wondered how long it would take before someone noticed.

trying to decide if it makes any sense....might make sense to block systemd init but I really do not see any need to worry about systemd libs...

I think this is the better method anyway http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=119836

n_hologram
Posts: 459
Joined: 2013-06-16 00:10

Re: nothing here

#13 Post by n_hologram »

mean_dean wrote:Wow! I wondered how long it would take before someone noticed.

trying to decide if it makes any sense....might make sense to block systemd init but I really do not see any need to worry about systemd libs...

I think this is the better method anyway http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=119836
i don't see why your ambivalence would lead you to delete the whole tutorial, but 10/10 troll.

Quite a few projects (refracta comes to mind) have already bypassed the systemd libs, so i doubt that switching repos would be a prefereable idea.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

mean_dean
Posts: 132
Joined: 2014-12-29 18:21

Re: nothing here

#14 Post by mean_dean »

:lol: good times....good good times...

if you block systemd libs then the only things available is basic window managers and very basic software

if you allow systemd libs then you can have a somewhat comfortable desktop

if you use a handful of packages from those third party repos (the packages are from a debian developer) then you can avoid the libs and the init and still have a very comfortable desktop


and the way refracta has done so in the past is to use old packages and/or some third party packages to create some basic openbox, lxpanel, environemnt...perfectly acceptable....especially at that time....but I hope they will use angband and/or trios repos to get back to their normal xfce desktop...


by the way, do you know whom the creator of the refracta project is?

n_hologram
Posts: 459
Joined: 2013-06-16 00:10

Re: nothing here

#15 Post by n_hologram »

mean_dean wrote:by the way, do you know whom the creator of the refracta project is?
Nice. I don't use it, but when I tested, it seemed legit (even if only for a server). Hopefully things continue going well.

In any case, my original point remains.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

mean_dean
Posts: 132
Joined: 2014-12-29 18:21

Re: nothing here

#16 Post by mean_dean »

:P goes something like this...


debian jessie netinst install
all choices at the software selection stage de-selected


Add the following to etc/apt/preferences.d/00systemd

Code: Select all

    Package: *systemd*
    Pin: origin ""
    Pin-Priority: -1
This blocks anything and everything with systemd anywhere in the name from ever being installed....or anything that relies on it toooo....


Add the following to etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00recommends

Code: Select all

    APT::Install-Recommends "0";
This stops recommended packages from being installed.
It isn't related specifically to systemd just keeps your install a bit leaner.


Run the following command

Code: Select all

    apt-get install sysvinit-core sysvinit
This installs the sysv init system and should remove the systemd init system.


Now reboot so that sysv is active as the init system


Run the following command

Code: Select all

    apt-get autoremove --purge libsystemd0
This will remove the libsystemd0 package and anything that depends on it. You will have to type in Yes, do as I say! and press enter as it will be removing packages that the debian package system has marked as essential.


Run the following command

Code: Select all

    apt-get autoremove --purge
This cleans up some left over cruft.


congrats, now you can install a basic window manager, xserver, and other basic software....

And you may want to install an older or third party libpulse package so you can install stuff like mplayer, vlc, totem, etc...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I no longer think it makes sense to do this, yea I can understand blocking the init system if you so choose but I see no reason to block the systemd libs....but whatevah....

kedaha
Posts: 3521
Joined: 2008-05-24 12:26
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 77 times

Re: nothing here

#17 Post by kedaha »

Just to say I really appreciate the post and will be trying the how -to this weekend. Thanks :)
DebianStable

Code: Select all

$ vrms

No non-free or contrib packages installed on debian!  rms would be proud.

mean_dean
Posts: 132
Joined: 2014-12-29 18:21

Re: nothing here

#18 Post by mean_dean »

mean_dean wrote:
I think this is the better method anyway http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=119836

n_hologram
Posts: 459
Joined: 2013-06-16 00:10

Re: nothing here

#19 Post by n_hologram »

mean_dean wrote:
mean_dean wrote:
I think this is the better method anyway http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=119836
I need to do more research on these repos, and I do appreciate that you've shared them with us. Admittedly, I have no time look into this right now.

Thank you for reposting that guide. Although it may fall-through as a long-term solution (esp. once Jessie hits stable), it contains some information that I didn't know until you posted (admittedly, I should study apt more in-depth). One thing Linux has taught me is to log things I find useful so I don't run into a "god I should have written that down a month ago because I have no idea where to find it or what it was really talking about."
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

mean_dean
Posts: 132
Joined: 2014-12-29 18:21

Re: nothing here

#20 Post by mean_dean »

I need to do more research on these repos, and I do appreciate that you've shared them with us.

Adam Borowski is a debian dev and I believe Trios reused his packages. The packages are up to date and do not seem to do anything except remove the dependency on systemd.
Thank you for reposting that guide. Although it may fall-through as a long-term solution (esp. once Jessie hits stable),

Jessie is frozen so it should be fine for Jessie. It will never allow anything to be installed that has systemd in the name. Now whether or not it will be possible to actually install anything without systemd in releases after jessie is a good question.
One thing Linux has taught me is to log things I find useful so I don't run into a "god I should have written that down a month ago because I have no idea where to find it or what it was really talking about."
if I supply anything useful to you then you better save it cause rest assured I will change it fifty times in the next day or two, delete it twice, repost it once, before posting a totally different way of accomplishing the same thing...


And you can use the same method but just block systemd and/or system-sysv if you just want to block systemd itself but allow the systemd libs.

Post Reply