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Where will you go after systemd?

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Where will you go after systemd?

BSD
12
16%
Linux without systemd
34
47%
Mac
2
3%
Windows
0
No votes
something totally different
1
1%
have not decided yet
24
33%
 
Total votes: 73

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bdtc1
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#141 Post by bdtc1 »

tomazzi wrote: There's also no point to post portions of broken systemd code here, cause when looking at the replies, it seems obvious that it's *unlikely* to find someone who could understand it...
I would understand it, but it'd be quite sufficient to simply post a bullet list summary of everything you found.

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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#142 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

tomazzi wrote:it seems obvious that it's *unlikely* to find someone who could understand it...
Obviously we cannot meet your lofty standards but users could just *trust* your *opinion* if you were to provide some independent *evidence* of your *competence*...

How are we lowly non-programmers supposed to be able to tell if you really are an experienced programmer or just a nut-job with an axe to grind who is good at writing bull-s**t?
deadbang

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oswaldkelso
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#143 Post by oswaldkelso »

"Head_on_a_Stick"

Option1: Why don't you just go and find out for your self. Go and read systemd-devel and see what Lennart Poettering thinks. He's meant to be a good trustworthy programmer....... ahh.

https://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-de ... llist.html

OK
Option2: Learn to program
Free Software Matters
Ash init durbatulûk, ash init gimbatul,
Ash init thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
My oldest used PC: 1999 imac 333Mhz 256MB PPC abandoned by Debian

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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#144 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

oswaldkelso wrote:"Head_on_a_Stick"

Option1: Why don't you just go and find out for your self. Go and read systemd-devel and see what Lennart Poettering thinks. He's meant to be a good trustworthy programmer....... ahh.

https://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-de ... llist.html

OK
Option2: Learn to program
I have no interest in programming, I find it boring.
deadbang

twoflowers

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#145 Post by twoflowers »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I have no interest in programming, I find it boring.
Then why are you complaining about not understanding?

><<<(°>

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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#146 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

twoflowers wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I have no interest in programming, I find it boring.
Then why are you complaining about not understanding?

><<<(°>
I'm not complaining about not understanding.

I am just attempting to make the point that anybody at all can post on these boards and if there is no way of independently verifying their programming skills then that post is meaningless.

I have said before that I trust the judgement of @falconindy (Dave Reisner) over on the Arch forums because I actually use the programs he has written every day: he made the top 10 list of systemd contributors in 2014.

If I knew which programs have been written by the posters here who express disappointment at the coding skills of a team whose product has been adopted by every major GNU/Linux distribution then I (and the many other Debian users who read these forums) would be more inclined to take their point of view seriously.

Without such verification, I (and the many other Debian users who read these forums) must presume that their skills are simply not up to the standard they claim.

To presume otherwise would be foolish.
deadbang

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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#147 Post by Deb-fan »

I thought everyone had put of both on ignore HOAS. :P

Sheesh, obviously many of the <censoreds> are fulla <also censored>. So in this case, some promises are made to be broken imo. Ahhhhh the great tomazzi, he's a legend in hiz own mind obviously. Dude is such an extreme intellect and awesome uber l33t coder, he couldn't figure out how to make a bug report. This tells anyone w 43 braincells a coupla of things about him. Stuff like a. I mean come on, you need somebody to hold your hand to figure out how to submit a bug report ?! b. He very likely has never bothered, in all hiz coding l33tness to submit a bug report to any major opensource project either.

Just based off of what I've seen the guy type in this one thread, he's told me more than I needed to know about the kinda person he must be and his holy qualifications as pertains to software development.

In ending, @HOAS ... common sense, reason, logic, experience and nothing of the sort will work when trying to have a meaningful convo w several of the people participating in this joke of a thread. An old truism pops to mind, well make that a couple.

* Choose your battles.
* Don't have a battle of wits, w unarmed people ( personally I think that one's bs, why not shoot fish in a barrel ? Lotsa fun "sometimes". Though pointless is pointless.
* Lastly ... don't waste your time arguing w id10t's, they'll just try to drag you down to their level and then beatcha w experience. :D

Going back to ignoring this FF&FF thread.
Most powerful FREE tech-support tool on the planet * HERE. *

schnuller
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#148 Post by schnuller »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
twoflowers wrote:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I have no interest in programming, I find it boring.
Then why are you complaining about not understanding?

><<<(°>
I'm not complaining about not understanding.

I am just attempting to make the point that anybody at all can post on these boards and if there is no way of independently verifying their programming skills then that post is meaningless.

I have said before that I trust the judgement of @falconindy (Dave Reisner) over on the Arch forums because I actually use the programs he has written every day: he made the top 10 list of systemd contributors in 2014.

If I knew which programs have been written by the posters here who express disappointment at the coding skills of a team whose product has been adopted by every major GNU/Linux distribution then I (and the many other Debian users who read these forums) would be more inclined to take their point of view seriously.

Without such verification, I (and the many other Debian users who read these forums) must presume that their skills are simply not up to the standard they claim.

To presume otherwise would be foolish.
In case it matters to you: I understand your point, and i agree.
(I did understand it and agreed from the very beginning, but have seen no point in posting it. I assumed tomazzi would quickly answer your original question.... Now it seems as if you could need a bit of support).

bdtc1
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#149 Post by bdtc1 »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: users could just *trust* your *opinion* if you were to provide some independent *evidence* of your *competence*...

How are we lowly non-programmers supposed to be able to tell if you really are an experienced programmer
He has already posted exact independent proof in the form of excerpts from the original source code, including comments from the authors where they themselves admit that there are problems which they are not addressing at that time. Non-programmers might not understand, but that doesn't change the validity of the proof. I believe that the full list should be posted here, or better yet in the bug-tracking system.

The fact that someone else has used this programming without failure is not proof that the programming is correct or that failures cannot occur. Security updates are routinely posted for programs which have been working just fine in most cases, but which still have flaws which can result in problems. These are legitimate concerns, irregardless of anyone person's dis-belief.

schnuller
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#150 Post by schnuller »

You don't seem to have understood the reasoning of Head_on_a_Stick or what he has asked for.

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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#151 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

bdtc1 wrote:He has already posted exact independent proof in the form of excerpts from the original source code, including comments from the authors where they themselves admit that there are problems which they are not addressing at that time. Non-programmers might not understand, but that doesn't change the validity of the proof. I believe that the full list should be posted here, or better yet in the bug-tracking system.
After posting on the systemd mailing list and recieving a reply from the developers regarding the points he raised:
tomazzi wrote:I've learned a lot, sorry to waste Your time.
@schnuller -- thank you, I appreciate your support.
deadbang

bdtc1
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#152 Post by bdtc1 »

In case this was overlooked:
tomazzi wrote:
bdtc1 wrote:
<From the mailing list:>To summarise: there are no bugs in core/main.c:
I've learned a lot, sorry to waste Your time.
Just to be clear, is the above sarcasm? Because it could be interpreted as saying that you finally agree and see their point.
Of course this is sarcasm.

twoflowers

Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#153 Post by twoflowers »

sarcasm detectors are out of order nowadays

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dasein
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#154 Post by dasein »

Argument from authority is not only no better than ad hominem, it's no different.

(Just sayin')

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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#155 Post by dasein »

tomazzi wrote:There's also no point to post portions of broken systemd code here, cause when looking at the replies, it seems obvious that it's *unlikely* to find someone who could understand it...
Sadly true, which is just one of the many reasons why this "debate" needs to just farqing die already.

(@tomazzi: I know that you neither need nor want my support in this particular point, but you have it anyway.)

schnuller
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#156 Post by schnuller »

dasein wrote:
tomazzi wrote:There's also no point to post portions of broken systemd code here, cause when looking at the replies, it seems obvious that it's *unlikely* to find someone who could understand it...
Sadly true, which is just one of the many reasons why this "debate" needs to just farqing die already.
I agree.
One question though: Is in your opinion t anything worth to talk about ? Or is all we can say for the next 500 years that nothing is worth talking about?
You could make a start ....

tomazzi
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#157 Post by tomazzi »

Declarations:
I've said it already, that I'm writting my *own* systemd version - nobody is forced to use it. It's just my own project made because of my selfish reasons. Again: I'm writting MY OWN version of systemd, because I'm not happy with what I can see in the official version. That's all.

It's a hard work - I'll really would like to use mainstream version - but unfortunatelly mainstream version is broken to the roots - so I HAVE to fork it for myself - AND I don't give a crap if anyone follows...

Did I made myself clear?

Anyway, I'm ****** missing a man who would catch the truth about the situation:
And the situation is:
RedHat, through systemd, is trying to bypass the whole open-source world - how? it's simple - systemd is already experimeting with direct function calls to kernel (SCI).
One could tell that they are searching for lower delays in system calls. But the truth is: they are trying to bypass glibc - to create closed-source version of systemd. And we are all just stupid test dummies, until we realise that there's way out.

Regards.
Odi profanum vulgus

schnuller
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#158 Post by schnuller »

I thought the question was what software you already did write, not what software you are planning to write.

You can stop searching for that man: There are people who see it like that.
And that is exactly why i said in another thread that not all problems related to systemd relate to the quality of it's code (You called it nonsense, btw).

tomazzi
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#159 Post by tomazzi »

schnuller wrote:I thought the question was what software you already did write, not what software you are planning to write.
And I thought that arguments, especially technical arguments are speaking for themselves - it's You who have a problem here, so You are trying to qestion my competence, because You can't understand the arguments nor the portions of code which I've posted here. So I could ask : are You just trolling here?, but I'm not going to say this ;) (well, I've said this, sorry)

Anyway, since I don't have google+ account nor Facepalm account, I can't give You a link to my profile, and for sure I will not show You my CV (You wouldn't understand most of it, cause there are mostly technical terms).
However, I may tell You that I'm working embedded systems/software in the area of factory automation (servo controllers, PLCs, etc).
In case if by "embedded system" You can only imagine toys like RaspberryPi, (what is rather common picture among laics), then I'll surprise You: "a toy" like S7-319F PLC is build on 3 independant CPUs: TriCore, PMC E9 and ERTEC400 (dedicated ethernet controller with integrated ARM core for handling Profibus and ProfiNet stacks).

You won't find this on Google, but You may try...

Oh, and I wrote a reply to a quiz here:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... iz#p510648
schnuller wrote:You can stop searching for that man: There are people who see it like that.
And that is exactly why i said in another thread that not all problems related to systemd relate to the quality of it's code (You called it nonsense, btw).
I don't think so - most of negative opinions I've seen were lacking techical background, so they could be easily questioned as being not objective.

................

Normally this should be end of this post, but I do uderstand that You believe in some magic or some super powers owned by developers who are working for big-name companies. Well I'm going to show You something:

Some time ago, when I was writting wxEDID (a tool for modyfying EDID data under GNU/Linux systems) I've discovered a really funny thing:
Video Electronics Standards Association (a big name, isn't it) have failed to understand the structure of Manufacturer_ID. In both official documents and on a Wiki page, this 2-byte structure is presented as a obfuscated set of bits. Even Linux kernel has wrong implementation of this struct (written by INTEL and REDHAT):
line 1316:
http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/dr ... drm_edid.c
Wiki: (bytes 8-9)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_ ... ation_data

What is really funny here, is that this struct is encoded as Big-endian, while the rest of EDID struct is encoded as Little-endian.

Nobody for those years which have past from the day 0, when the standard was settled have noticed this.

And the struct looks like follows:

Code: Select all

struct {
    uint letter3     :5;
    uint letter2     :5;
    uint letter1     :5;
    uint reserved :1;
} mfc_id_t;
So, instead of shifting, or-ing and mixing bits, it's just sufficient to just swap 2 bytes of manufacturer id and read those 3 letters directly.

How could this happen? Big Name companies are hiring geniuses right?
Who would be that stupid to mix data fields with different endiannes in one structure? In a specification for a standard?

This is how it's possible:
In big companies NOBODY GIVES A crap - their employees just can't wait for a launch time.

(btw, this field was forced by ... gues who? Microshit.)

Regards.
Odi profanum vulgus

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Re: Where will you go after systemd?

#160 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

@tomazzi -- thank you for clarifying that.

I see now that you are indeed very knowledgeable and are certainly in a position to critically analyse the code base.

I apologise sincerely and profusely if I have caused you any offence: this was not my intention.

As I stated previously it is just that I think it is important to establish the credibility of posters on this open forum.

Obviously, I have no credibility at all but you knew that already :D
deadbang

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