I would understand it, but it'd be quite sufficient to simply post a bullet list summary of everything you found.tomazzi wrote: There's also no point to post portions of broken systemd code here, cause when looking at the replies, it seems obvious that it's *unlikely* to find someone who could understand it...
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Where will you go after systemd?
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?
Obviously we cannot meet your lofty standards but users could just *trust* your *opinion* if you were to provide some independent *evidence* of your *competence*...tomazzi wrote:it seems obvious that it's *unlikely* to find someone who could understand it...
How are we lowly non-programmers supposed to be able to tell if you really are an experienced programmer or just a nut-job with an axe to grind who is good at writing bull-s**t?
deadbang
- oswaldkelso
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?
"Head_on_a_Stick"
Option1: Why don't you just go and find out for your self. Go and read systemd-devel and see what Lennart Poettering thinks. He's meant to be a good trustworthy programmer....... ahh.
https://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-de ... llist.html
OK
Option2: Learn to program
Option1: Why don't you just go and find out for your self. Go and read systemd-devel and see what Lennart Poettering thinks. He's meant to be a good trustworthy programmer....... ahh.
https://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-de ... llist.html
OK
Option2: Learn to program
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Ash init thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.
My oldest used PC: 1999 imac 333Mhz 256MB PPC abandoned by Debian
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?
I have no interest in programming, I find it boring.oswaldkelso wrote:"Head_on_a_Stick"
Option1: Why don't you just go and find out for your self. Go and read systemd-devel and see what Lennart Poettering thinks. He's meant to be a good trustworthy programmer....... ahh.
https://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-de ... llist.html
OK
Option2: Learn to program
deadbang
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
Then why are you complaining about not understanding?Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I have no interest in programming, I find it boring.
><<<(°>
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?
I'm not complaining about not understanding.twoflowers wrote:Then why are you complaining about not understanding?Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I have no interest in programming, I find it boring.
><<<(°>
I am just attempting to make the point that anybody at all can post on these boards and if there is no way of independently verifying their programming skills then that post is meaningless.
I have said before that I trust the judgement of @falconindy (Dave Reisner) over on the Arch forums because I actually use the programs he has written every day: he made the top 10 list of systemd contributors in 2014.
If I knew which programs have been written by the posters here who express disappointment at the coding skills of a team whose product has been adopted by every major GNU/Linux distribution then I (and the many other Debian users who read these forums) would be more inclined to take their point of view seriously.
Without such verification, I (and the many other Debian users who read these forums) must presume that their skills are simply not up to the standard they claim.
To presume otherwise would be foolish.
deadbang
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
I thought everyone had put of both on ignore HOAS.
Sheesh, obviously many of the <censoreds> are fulla <also censored>. So in this case, some promises are made to be broken imo. Ahhhhh the great tomazzi, he's a legend in hiz own mind obviously. Dude is such an extreme intellect and awesome uber l33t coder, he couldn't figure out how to make a bug report. This tells anyone w 43 braincells a coupla of things about him. Stuff like a. I mean come on, you need somebody to hold your hand to figure out how to submit a bug report ?! b. He very likely has never bothered, in all hiz coding l33tness to submit a bug report to any major opensource project either.
Just based off of what I've seen the guy type in this one thread, he's told me more than I needed to know about the kinda person he must be and his holy qualifications as pertains to software development.
In ending, @HOAS ... common sense, reason, logic, experience and nothing of the sort will work when trying to have a meaningful convo w several of the people participating in this joke of a thread. An old truism pops to mind, well make that a couple.
* Choose your battles.
* Don't have a battle of wits, w unarmed people ( personally I think that one's bs, why not shoot fish in a barrel ? Lotsa fun "sometimes". Though pointless is pointless.
* Lastly ... don't waste your time arguing w id10t's, they'll just try to drag you down to their level and then beatcha w experience.
Going back to ignoring this FF&FF thread.
Sheesh, obviously many of the <censoreds> are fulla <also censored>. So in this case, some promises are made to be broken imo. Ahhhhh the great tomazzi, he's a legend in hiz own mind obviously. Dude is such an extreme intellect and awesome uber l33t coder, he couldn't figure out how to make a bug report. This tells anyone w 43 braincells a coupla of things about him. Stuff like a. I mean come on, you need somebody to hold your hand to figure out how to submit a bug report ?! b. He very likely has never bothered, in all hiz coding l33tness to submit a bug report to any major opensource project either.
Just based off of what I've seen the guy type in this one thread, he's told me more than I needed to know about the kinda person he must be and his holy qualifications as pertains to software development.
In ending, @HOAS ... common sense, reason, logic, experience and nothing of the sort will work when trying to have a meaningful convo w several of the people participating in this joke of a thread. An old truism pops to mind, well make that a couple.
* Choose your battles.
* Don't have a battle of wits, w unarmed people ( personally I think that one's bs, why not shoot fish in a barrel ? Lotsa fun "sometimes". Though pointless is pointless.
* Lastly ... don't waste your time arguing w id10t's, they'll just try to drag you down to their level and then beatcha w experience.
Going back to ignoring this FF&FF thread.
Most powerful FREE tech-support tool on the planet * HERE. *
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
In case it matters to you: I understand your point, and i agree.Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I'm not complaining about not understanding.twoflowers wrote:Then why are you complaining about not understanding?Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I have no interest in programming, I find it boring.
><<<(°>
I am just attempting to make the point that anybody at all can post on these boards and if there is no way of independently verifying their programming skills then that post is meaningless.
I have said before that I trust the judgement of @falconindy (Dave Reisner) over on the Arch forums because I actually use the programs he has written every day: he made the top 10 list of systemd contributors in 2014.
If I knew which programs have been written by the posters here who express disappointment at the coding skills of a team whose product has been adopted by every major GNU/Linux distribution then I (and the many other Debian users who read these forums) would be more inclined to take their point of view seriously.
Without such verification, I (and the many other Debian users who read these forums) must presume that their skills are simply not up to the standard they claim.
To presume otherwise would be foolish.
(I did understand it and agreed from the very beginning, but have seen no point in posting it. I assumed tomazzi would quickly answer your original question.... Now it seems as if you could need a bit of support).
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
He has already posted exact independent proof in the form of excerpts from the original source code, including comments from the authors where they themselves admit that there are problems which they are not addressing at that time. Non-programmers might not understand, but that doesn't change the validity of the proof. I believe that the full list should be posted here, or better yet in the bug-tracking system.Head_on_a_Stick wrote: users could just *trust* your *opinion* if you were to provide some independent *evidence* of your *competence*...
How are we lowly non-programmers supposed to be able to tell if you really are an experienced programmer
The fact that someone else has used this programming without failure is not proof that the programming is correct or that failures cannot occur. Security updates are routinely posted for programs which have been working just fine in most cases, but which still have flaws which can result in problems. These are legitimate concerns, irregardless of anyone person's dis-belief.
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
You don't seem to have understood the reasoning of Head_on_a_Stick or what he has asked for.
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?
After posting on the systemd mailing list and recieving a reply from the developers regarding the points he raised:bdtc1 wrote:He has already posted exact independent proof in the form of excerpts from the original source code, including comments from the authors where they themselves admit that there are problems which they are not addressing at that time. Non-programmers might not understand, but that doesn't change the validity of the proof. I believe that the full list should be posted here, or better yet in the bug-tracking system.
@schnuller -- thank you, I appreciate your support.tomazzi wrote:I've learned a lot, sorry to waste Your time.
deadbang
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
In case this was overlooked:
tomazzi wrote:Of course this is sarcasm.bdtc1 wrote:Just to be clear, is the above sarcasm? Because it could be interpreted as saying that you finally agree and see their point.<From the mailing list:>To summarise: there are no bugs in core/main.c:
I've learned a lot, sorry to waste Your time.
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
Argument from authority is not only no better than ad hominem, it's no different.
(Just sayin')
(Just sayin')
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
Sadly true, which is just one of the many reasons why this "debate" needs to just farqing die already.tomazzi wrote:There's also no point to post portions of broken systemd code here, cause when looking at the replies, it seems obvious that it's *unlikely* to find someone who could understand it...
(@tomazzi: I know that you neither need nor want my support in this particular point, but you have it anyway.)
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
I agree.dasein wrote:Sadly true, which is just one of the many reasons why this "debate" needs to just farqing die already.tomazzi wrote:There's also no point to post portions of broken systemd code here, cause when looking at the replies, it seems obvious that it's *unlikely* to find someone who could understand it...
One question though: Is in your opinion t anything worth to talk about ? Or is all we can say for the next 500 years that nothing is worth talking about?
You could make a start ....
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
Declarations:
I've said it already, that I'm writting my *own* systemd version - nobody is forced to use it. It's just my own project made because of my selfish reasons. Again: I'm writting MY OWN version of systemd, because I'm not happy with what I can see in the official version. That's all.
It's a hard work - I'll really would like to use mainstream version - but unfortunatelly mainstream version is broken to the roots - so I HAVE to fork it for myself - AND I don't give a crap if anyone follows...
Did I made myself clear?
Anyway, I'm ****** missing a man who would catch the truth about the situation:
And the situation is:
RedHat, through systemd, is trying to bypass the whole open-source world - how? it's simple - systemd is already experimeting with direct function calls to kernel (SCI).
One could tell that they are searching for lower delays in system calls. But the truth is: they are trying to bypass glibc - to create closed-source version of systemd. And we are all just stupid test dummies, until we realise that there's way out.
Regards.
I've said it already, that I'm writting my *own* systemd version - nobody is forced to use it. It's just my own project made because of my selfish reasons. Again: I'm writting MY OWN version of systemd, because I'm not happy with what I can see in the official version. That's all.
It's a hard work - I'll really would like to use mainstream version - but unfortunatelly mainstream version is broken to the roots - so I HAVE to fork it for myself - AND I don't give a crap if anyone follows...
Did I made myself clear?
Anyway, I'm ****** missing a man who would catch the truth about the situation:
And the situation is:
RedHat, through systemd, is trying to bypass the whole open-source world - how? it's simple - systemd is already experimeting with direct function calls to kernel (SCI).
One could tell that they are searching for lower delays in system calls. But the truth is: they are trying to bypass glibc - to create closed-source version of systemd. And we are all just stupid test dummies, until we realise that there's way out.
Regards.
Odi profanum vulgus
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
I thought the question was what software you already did write, not what software you are planning to write.
You can stop searching for that man: There are people who see it like that.
And that is exactly why i said in another thread that not all problems related to systemd relate to the quality of it's code (You called it nonsense, btw).
You can stop searching for that man: There are people who see it like that.
And that is exactly why i said in another thread that not all problems related to systemd relate to the quality of it's code (You called it nonsense, btw).
Re: Where will you go after systemd?
And I thought that arguments, especially technical arguments are speaking for themselves - it's You who have a problem here, so You are trying to qestion my competence, because You can't understand the arguments nor the portions of code which I've posted here. So I could ask : are You just trolling here?, but I'm not going to say this (well, I've said this, sorry)schnuller wrote:I thought the question was what software you already did write, not what software you are planning to write.
Anyway, since I don't have google+ account nor Facepalm account, I can't give You a link to my profile, and for sure I will not show You my CV (You wouldn't understand most of it, cause there are mostly technical terms).
However, I may tell You that I'm working embedded systems/software in the area of factory automation (servo controllers, PLCs, etc).
In case if by "embedded system" You can only imagine toys like RaspberryPi, (what is rather common picture among laics), then I'll surprise You: "a toy" like S7-319F PLC is build on 3 independant CPUs: TriCore, PMC E9 and ERTEC400 (dedicated ethernet controller with integrated ARM core for handling Profibus and ProfiNet stacks).
You won't find this on Google, but You may try...
Oh, and I wrote a reply to a quiz here:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... iz#p510648
I don't think so - most of negative opinions I've seen were lacking techical background, so they could be easily questioned as being not objective.schnuller wrote:You can stop searching for that man: There are people who see it like that.
And that is exactly why i said in another thread that not all problems related to systemd relate to the quality of it's code (You called it nonsense, btw).
................
Normally this should be end of this post, but I do uderstand that You believe in some magic or some super powers owned by developers who are working for big-name companies. Well I'm going to show You something:
Some time ago, when I was writting wxEDID (a tool for modyfying EDID data under GNU/Linux systems) I've discovered a really funny thing:
Video Electronics Standards Association (a big name, isn't it) have failed to understand the structure of Manufacturer_ID. In both official documents and on a Wiki page, this 2-byte structure is presented as a obfuscated set of bits. Even Linux kernel has wrong implementation of this struct (written by INTEL and REDHAT):
line 1316:
http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/dr ... drm_edid.c
Wiki: (bytes 8-9)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_ ... ation_data
What is really funny here, is that this struct is encoded as Big-endian, while the rest of EDID struct is encoded as Little-endian.
Nobody for those years which have past from the day 0, when the standard was settled have noticed this.
And the struct looks like follows:
Code: Select all
struct {
uint letter3 :5;
uint letter2 :5;
uint letter1 :5;
uint reserved :1;
} mfc_id_t;
How could this happen? Big Name companies are hiring geniuses right?
Who would be that stupid to mix data fields with different endiannes in one structure? In a specification for a standard?
This is how it's possible:
In big companies NOBODY GIVES A crap - their employees just can't wait for a launch time.
(btw, this field was forced by ... gues who? Microshit.)
Regards.
Odi profanum vulgus
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Where will you go after systemd?
@tomazzi -- thank you for clarifying that.
I see now that you are indeed very knowledgeable and are certainly in a position to critically analyse the code base.
I apologise sincerely and profusely if I have caused you any offence: this was not my intention.
As I stated previously it is just that I think it is important to establish the credibility of posters on this open forum.
Obviously, I have no credibility at all but you knew that already
I see now that you are indeed very knowledgeable and are certainly in a position to critically analyse the code base.
I apologise sincerely and profusely if I have caused you any offence: this was not my intention.
As I stated previously it is just that I think it is important to establish the credibility of posters on this open forum.
Obviously, I have no credibility at all but you knew that already
deadbang