Has modern Linux lost its way?

[thanatos_incarnate]

And i will do it ... hold your breath ... ta-da: Now.

"This will be the last time,
I think I said that past time"

[JLloyd13]

I for one have checked quite some communication channels of linux during the last weeks and months.
It sure *has* lost it's way.
The good news: I will leave those channels to the new gang.


And i will do it ... hold your breath ... ta-da: Now.

please do so. Your ways are not just childish, they border on trolling. Stop going after other users for no reason. Your behavior is something I'm more used to seeing on the Arch forums, except those people usually have some useful info hidden in there between the elitism

[mardybear]

schnuller wrote:
My posts don't have reputation because i have a history ...

At least this post had some useful information.

And i will do it ... hold your breath ... ta-da: Now.

I doubt it ... you'll just create a new account and keep on trolling.
As a Linux elder, would be great if you spent some energy mentoring those will less experience. Nobody is born knowing Linux, or anything else for that matter. Me thinks cantankerous elders are just as big a problem in modern Linux than newbies who have not yet taken the time to learn or don't have enough experience.

JLloyd13 wrote:
Your ways are not just childish, they border on trolling

Border (?) on trolling...

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29


schnuller's recent greatest hits...how in any way does this benefit the community?

With more than 20 posts people could know if you have got experience.

Your posts would have more reputation if you had a history in this forum.

Such myths (netinstall will install a lean system) say a lot about todays debian users.

deep down in the hacker universe ...

What is that localectl? My first guess is that systemd took it over too ? Wow: Soon i won't be able to do most easy things in Linux anymore ....
lol.
Well: i am getting old. I will get used to it. I have to.

(Iron Maiden, huh? ).

The best idea is to go back to Windows. It has wrecked your brain and you will not be able to use other operating systems anymore (I guess you are not able to use Android, google store, neither, huh?).

i doubt you are up to that level.
In 8 years you would have shown it, if you were. At least once or twice.

not that much to analyze, not much time needed. of course i know your posts for years and they've always been like that, no matter what the subject is (back then it usually was ubuntu). The question is: what do you come here for? Only to tell that the world is your oyster? Init that getting boring, ...

I had to search for what Germans call "summen". It is neither silence nor singing (neither fish nor meat).
My dictionary gave me several proposals (hum, croon, buzz, haw, fizzling), but also purr (which is said to be the sound of lazy cats, enjoying life, too. Besides the other meaning). Hence i picked that. If my dict is correct, than it hits the nail, regarding your posts.
I can tell the meaning of your post before i even read it: There are no problems. Never. Ever. Whatsoever.
I never was disappointed.
The only problem i see: You need someone else, who speaks about problems, to tell him that there are no problems. If everyone would do it like that, there would be absolute silence.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

schnuller's recent greatest hits...how in any way does this benefit the community?

I find him rather entertaining...

[mardybear]

Never seen a more blatant history of repeated trolling...

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
I find him rather entertaining...

Then you either condone his behaviour or just want to stay on his good side - shame either way. Thought you worked in medicine - [edit] do no harm. Take an average weighting of the 10 most recent posts, on the whole have they been harmful or beneficial? Educational and informative? Welcoming and helpful?

Also either way another trollish mission accomplished - break up and disrupt the community.

An elitist membership and attitude was prevalent in debianuserforums.org. The forum is now essentially defunct with probably less than a dozen posts per week. Who would want to join the discussion? And no, not everything can be blamed on systemd.

[NkfzGx3ok]

Assuming we are talking about desktop/distribution/GNU/whatever Linux and not just the kernel... No! Not at all!
I've asked this several times the past 15 years at points and seen people ask constantly year after year about random things - My ultimate conclusion is that *Linux can never lose its way because it has no set destination, the majority take it where they want it and re-invent wheels when the old ones are boring to them... or they bolt on fake chrome spinners... just f*kin look at emacs!

[JLloyd13]

@mardybear

I'm sooo glad its not just me noticing this. Users such as this are hurting our community. We should be welcoming to new users- Debian is supposed to be the universal OS, not elitist.

Thank you.

[dasein]

Never seen a more blatant history of repeated trolling...

Just check out any of his many sock puppet/alt-accounts. They all read the same.

[mean_dean]

how in any way does this benefit

far too often I wonder that about the answers posted on this forum...sometimes even the questions....

[thanatos_incarnate]

Debian is supposed to be the universal OS, not elitist.

I somehow agree, but I'd still reserve the right not to help people who
expect a lot of hand-holding just because they didn't read the community rules
on how to search for help yourself before asking a question.
I also think it's perfectly OK to politely tell people when they're lazy or ignorant
about rules:

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=47078

[mor]

Yes our nadir/jalu last aka schnuller is very good at getting on peoples' nerves, he sometimes (yes, not always) even does it on purpose.
But you are failing to read between the lines and you are now stuck looking at the finger that points to the moon.

Nadir is trying to give voice, admittedly in a kinda fucked up way, to a series of preoccupations that go far beyond the putative elitism often associated with old school *nixers and debianists.
We may not like the way he is telling it and we may disagree on the fact it is a real issue, but it is undeniable that the level of questions and answers you read on the various channels of our "linux" world is on a free fall.
He's not talking "in the last months", not even the last few years and it certainly isn't because of systemd (although it is easily the proverbial last straw).

The decline happened slowly but steadily in the last decade at least, and was inevitable with the increased use of the various linux based systems.
Some (well, quite a few good ones actually) are genuinely concerned that what they lived as a great passion about something, is gonna get lost in a race to clock beans as a measure of greatness.

Many have lost interest in sharing with us what they know exactly because of this. Not all those who know stuff have gone away, but we're definitely shorthanded, and it is not by covering the umpteenth "how to install the real firefox" or "I am stuck with a black screen after upgrade" threads that this is still a place of learning.
Nadir is simply trying to call the community up on the fact that we're no longer learning stuff, we're mostly just patting each others' backs for being users of one distro.

Could he have been less assholish about it?
Of course, but he's who he is and even in the face of how he acts, to put him in the troll category is just shortsighted.

Now, can you go beyond that?

Bye

[JLloyd13]

Nadir is trying to give voice, admittedly in a kinda fucked up way, to a series of preoccupations that go far beyond the putative elitism often associated with old school *nixers and debianists.
We may not like the way he is telling it and we may disagree on the fact it is a real issue, but it is undeniable that the level of questions and answers you read on the various channels of our "linux" world is on a free fall.
He's not talking "in the last months", not even the last few years and it certainly isn't because of systemd (although it is easily the proverbial last straw).

The decline happened slowly but steadily in the last decade at least, and was inevitable with the increased use of the various linux based systems.
Some (well, quite a few good ones actually) are genuinely concerned that what they lived as a great passion about something, is gonna get lost in a race to clock beans as a measure of greatness.

Well, ignoring systemd for a second- and your odd acceptance of a user who has multiple accounts- I'm going to propose a theory. I think the reason why there are more dumb questions here are because there are more new users here, and that's not a bad thing. Today's new users are tomorrows contributors. Maybe the old timers just can't remember being new- I do, I got into Linux about 4 years ago, and yeah, I asked some pretty stupid questions. It happens. New users sometimes would rather ask their question than consult google. Is that right? No. But it's hardly criminal. The amount of learning I've done in 4 years is amazing- these new users will improve, if we don't scare them away. The idea that their learning nothing is false, just help them politely and point them towards the wiki and man pages, they'll learn. I did. More and more new users are coming into Linux- But we shouldn't feel threatened by it. I'm not someone who cares about all the market share crap- I'm happy with it as a niche, doesn't mean we need to be jerks to new users.

Many have lost interest in sharing with us what they know exactly because of this. Not all those who know stuff have gone away, but we're definitely shorthanded, and it is not by covering the umpteenth "how to install the real firefox" or "I am stuck with a black screen after upgrade" threads that this is still a place of learning.
Nadir is simply trying to call the community up on the fact that we're no longer learning stuff, we're mostly just patting each others' backs for being users of one distro.

Could he have been less assholish about it?
Of course, but he's who he is and even in the face of how he acts, to put him in the troll category is just shortsighted.

Now, can you go beyond that?

Bye

A good response is saying "Iceweasel is the same thing, also next time use google/wiki/man pages." what schnuller does is not that. He doesn't help. He doesn't direct them towards documentation. He says things like this:

The best idea is to go back to Windows. It has wrecked your brain and you will not be able to use other operating systems anymore (I guess you are not able to use Android, google store, neither, huh?).

That is crap. That is not helpful or useful in the slightest. It is directly antagonistic, not just getting on nerves- it really is pretty much trolling.

[MALsPa]

The internet is full of people like nadir/schnuller, sitting behind their computers trying to come up with what they think are clever put-downs and insults. That's just the way it is. You can either let it bother you or just laugh it off, whatever. schnuller seems to be a fairly intelligent person; I just figure he's got some sort of issues and he tries to compensate for those by trying to be a forum jerk. I keep thinking that I'd like to put him in a room with my ex-wife -- that'd be entertaining, for sure.

[mor]

" what schnuller does is not that.

In a way what I was trying to tell you is that you don't know what he does.

I was just saying you have to look beyond what, at first sight, seems trollish behavior.
True, he's used multiple aliases (and he's not the only one), but don't confuse the trickery of having contemporary multiple accounts to **** with other users, with the silly but also harmless practice of dumping one and after some time coming back with another… even Prince did that.
Indeed there's hardly ever much mystery around every new nick and he never hides behind them: you need to digest a little more than a handful of posts to make sense of him, that's what I'm telling you.

For better or worse his contribution to this board is far more important and deeper than you can fathom and his behavior, although certainly debatable at times, also yields from the fact that "he's been there, he's seen things", which in his case is true.

Now I'm starting to feel like I'm defending him, which is not something I want to do because there's no need, moreover I kinda sorta see it differently so is not even like through him I further my own point of view.

Bye

[JLloyd13]

For better or worse his contribution to this board is far more important and deeper than you can fathom and his behavior, although certainly debatable at times, also yields from the fact that "he's been there, he's seen things", which in his case is true.

Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't buy it for a second. I have yet to see any evidence of him contributing anything useful on this board. I'd love some examples. I don't care what he's 'seen', it doesn't take a genius to tell when a guys just being a d*ck.

And, he seems to have evaporated once again- typical troll.

[mardybear]

how in any way does this benefit

far too often I wonder that about the answers posted on this forum...sometimes even the questions....

Careful your true colours are showing through. Fail to see what your response has to do with the original post. Just another attempt to disrupt the forum and it's members.

Your statement is, of course, true, but this can be said about any forum, any topic, anywhere. Take a look at debianuserforums.org, for example. The most recent three topics of discussion include: icedove refuses to change from sans-serif font, U.S. spying program exposed, and grub and multibooting. Here's the most recent thread:

icedove refuses to change from sans-serif font

Postby Ray Andrews » February 25th, 2015, 3:14 am
Enlightened ones:

A bother with icedove: I can display recieved messages in the font of my choice, but when I compose, no matter which font I select, it always pops back to sans-serif. I have 'DejaVu Sans Mono' selected for all options, but no luck when composing or replying, it's always sans-serif.

Ray Andrews

Posts: 2
Joined: February 25th, 2015, 3:07 am


Re: icedove refuses to change from sans-serif font

Postby mean_dean » February 25th, 2015, 3:38 am
debian version
software versions
any 3rd party sources
screenshot

User avatar
mean_dean

Posts: 178
Joined: November 30th, 2014, 1:12 pm


Re: icedove refuses to change from sans-serif font

Postby Ray Andrews » February 25th, 2015, 5:06 am

mean_dean wrote:debian version
software versions
any 3rd party sources
screenshot



testing, up to date. icedove is 31.4.0, but it's been like this for as long as I can remember. Not much to show in a screenshot, when the 'write' window opens, the font box shows 'DevaVu Sans Mono' but the instant I touch the keyboard, it pops back to 'sans-serif'. I never really cared about it until I decided to change my chosen font (I used to use sans-serif anyway).

Ray Andrews

Posts: 2
Joined: February 25th, 2015, 3:07 am


Re: icedove refuses to change from sans-serif font

Postby mean_dean » February 25th, 2015, 5:34 am
You can set your preferred font in preferences. Then if I just click reply and start typing then it sticks to my font but if I click around in the window then it does pop back to sans-serif but it doesnt change what I have previously typed and if I select that text then it shows my preferred font in the box.

The behavior is kind of irritating. You could file a bug report if it bugs you that much.

User avatar
mean_dean

Posts: 178
Joined: November 30th, 2014, 1:12 pm

Enlightened ones! Take that back, no air of elitism on the forum - my bad.

So what was the outcome of this stimulating exchange between an apparent new user and seasoned veteran? Would a screenshot have provided real value - not likely. Did the issue get resolved - nope. Was a suitable work-around discovered - sorta - don't click-click here or click-click there. Was an existing bug report identified - nope. Was a bug search completed - uncertain. Was the user directed to the more appropriate Mozilla forum - nope. Did anything change in the half-hour exchange - nope. Stimulating and interesting - nope. Would it benefit other forum members - nope.

A troll will rarely directly assist fellow members in the support forum trolled, unless he is absolutely sure of the answer, it boosts his image or it manages to belittle others. He will typically sit back and wait for cannon fodder, then jump in with a snide remark or two. If nothing obvious and still bored, then he'll just make things up, take statements out of context or go off-topic. The example cited above would be almost too easy for a troll to latch onto - fish in a barrel.

PS - Mor your posts are always interesting but me thinks you would probably find a way to defend the actions of a drunk driver, speeding through a school zone with a beer in one hand, cell in the other and three unstrapped kids in the back seat.

[thanatos_incarnate]

For better or worse his contribution to this board is far more important and deeper than you can fathom and his behavior, although certainly debatable at times, also yields from the fact that "he's been there, he's seen things", which in his case is true.

Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't buy it for a second. I have yet to see any evidence of him contributing anything useful on this board. I'd love some examples. I don't care what he's 'seen', it doesn't take a genius to tell when a guys just being a d*ck.

And, he seems to have evaporated once again- typical troll.

Somehow, it's sad that we're still in this old man mentality where user maturity and experience
excuses abuse of other users. It reminds me of the way my grandfather was brought up.
Yes, there are times where people are total douchebags and expect us to spoon feed them
and you can also be angry at them on a civilised and polite level, but for a supposedly mature
and experienced user to resort to cynicism and bile to get their message across is wrong in my
book. It also is ironically childish.

[mor]

Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't buy it for a second.

Oh well, you're not alone in that, maybe I'm wrong.
Or maybe the echo of my words will resound in your head a long time from now, and you'll "get" what I mean, maybe not, still I felt like I had to say it.

PS - Mor your posts are always interesting but me thinks you would probably find a way to defend the actions of a drunk driver, speeding through a school zone with a beer in one hand, cell in the other and three unstrapped kids in the back seat.

I will always stand for anyone if I feel something's not right.
Even the man you depicted might be needing a different story to be told, besides that's not the point because as I said it was not my intention to "defend" nadir (he doesn't need me to), I chimed in just to suggest to look beyond his behavior.
I know I would have wanted someone to tell me that there could be something more in something I may have a distorted perception about.

Take care.

By the way Nadir has never said DUF was a place of knowledge and culture and as far as I know, neither did Dean.
If I understand them correctly, but I'm certain about nadir, they would argue that there's no such place anymore anywhere.

Somehow, it's sad that we're still in this old man mentality where user maturity and experience
excuses abuse of other users.

I understand how you may have got that message but it was not what I meant.
Nadir's "maturity and experience" (funny how he would be the first not to like those words referred to him) is not a justification for being abusive.
Actually nadir has seldom been abusive, maybe never truly so.

As I said, you need to read between the lines, think about what he said in a broader sense, there's a bigger picture underneath.
JLloyd doesn't buy it, fair enough, you don't have to, fair too.

I'm just saying what I think, just take it for what it is.

Bye

[JLloyd13]

As I said, you need to read between the lines, think about what he said in a broader sense, there's a bigger picture underneath.

yes, clearly he is providing help in a secret code only true debian users can access, I shall therefor begin a life of prayer to seek this new level of enlightenment from Nadir/schnuller our great grand master.



Seriously? Do you honestly believe there's some great wisdom behind each trolling post? Like, really? or are you just pulling my leg?

[buntunub]

I think its funny as hell when I see Systemd fanboi's supposedly taking some kind of "victory lap". Yes, they deserve one. The pushed for a piece of alpha/beta quality software to be pushed into future stable releases, and they got what they wanted because those who were in a good position to do something about it did nothing. As one who did try to fight against it, I now think the Debian community is getting precisely what they deserve. Its even laughable that there is now a movement to tuck tail and run away from Debian to some other alternative "home". TBH, I feel for those communities because what are they really getting aside from people who ran away from Debian due to Systemd?...