What language for developing operating systems?

[oberon]

Hello,

I'm curious how to develop for operating systems like Linux. I've started to learn Python right now to get into the whole programming world. But what do i have to learn later to develop for operating systems in the future? Is it C that is the only choice or are there others with more potential? Many questions regarding this.

[korilius]

Plenty of answers via Google.

This should give you a good start:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5200 ... ented-in-c

[dasein]

Is it C that is the only choice...

Pretty much.

P.S. Do not double-post. More here: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10653

[oberon]

Is it C that is the only choice...

Pretty much.

P.S. Do not double-post. More here: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10653

Oh, sorry. Someone can delete this topic then. Thanks for the link though!

[admoore]

This link is something interesting for those interested in OS design:

http://mikeos.berlios.de/

It's a simple OS written in assembly with a tutorial on how to create something like it. Probably a good introduction if you want to work with low-level things.

[lilith2k3]

C and C++ will do.

[bradhog]

No C is not the only language but still it is considered to be a better one. But you can also use Ruby,Python for this.

[bradhog]

I think c and c++ is enough for developing operating system.

[zilleplus]

A lot of people here say use C en C++, this can also be done with java.
I know the performance crap but honnestly C can be really hard for beginners.
Not the mention that it can become very confusing after a while in C, C++ is much better but is still way more complex then java.
Knowing that C++ tends to error on linking and makes the faults unclear.

check out this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Operating-System- ... 1118063333

[tomazzi]

Yeah, I can confirm that I'm bored...
....
The truth is:
If someone asks what language he should use to write an operating system, then everyone can safely assume that this is a waste of time to even try to write a response.

This is a kind of a brain-hack: Peoples who are writting OS-es have deep knowledge of programming languages and their limitations. Nobody would even try to suggest C++ as a "good" langauge for writting the OS - Yes, I'm aware of the fact that there is literally ONE OS written in C++, but that doesn't change anything.

So... perhaps C is good?
No, it's NOT.

At least, it's not sufficient to know C to write an OS.
You have to know HOW THE COMPUTER WORKS (just a hint )
...And how to switch processes stacks to implement a very basic multi-threading OS...

Regards

[マーズ maazu]

C.

[tomazzi]

C.

Wrong.
C and assembler.

The only way to save/restore CPU "context" is to use assembly language - and this is the *only* possible way to implement multi-tasking and threads...

Regards.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

My brother is a professional (games) programmer and he says he prefers C++ over C

I tried to persuade him otherwise but...

[tomazzi]

...and what's the common part of writting games and OS-es?

I agree that C++ is "easier" / more comfortable.
But Dot Net is even more comfortable (C#/C-sharp).

The key problem is, that "comfortable" usually has nothing to do with "robust" and in most cases "convenience" is the opposite term to "performance" and "reliability".

...But who cares: Too slow? Buy a faster computer, so "our" lazy/incompetent programmers can continue to write more and more shitty code which will work with barely acceptable speed. Still too slow? - Buy a faster computer...

Regards.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

...and what's the common part of writting games and OS-es?

None whatsoever

I am very sorry, I will refrain from posting in programming related threads in the future.

[tomazzi]

In any case, my intention was not to offend You - It is observable, that today most companies are selling shitty software.
Example #1:
Winblows (Microshit by-product) is working only slower and slower with each version, despite the fact, that in the mean time computing power of average PC have increased at least 10 times.
Example #2:
minetest is several times faster (while offering better graphics effects) than that crappy java version called minecraft (now microshit)
Example #3:
Something like a 15 years ago, Doom3 was created - it offers great effects and quite good physics on a 10-years old computers - unreachable for FarCry or Crysis.
...and so on.

BTW: Doom3 creator, John Carmack have sold himself to microshit, and now he claims that directx have magically becomed better than opengl - despite the fact that newer versions of directx are even more shitty than ver 5.0, which he criticised as being, well, crap.

Regards.

Edit:
Winblows is chaep, games are cheap.
Situation looks much worse in case of multi-billion companies, like f.e. Siemens:
They are selling extremely expensive and extremely shitty software for decades - f.e. none of siemens programs can properly refresh its own window - seriously, this is not a joke - they didn't discovered how to do this despite over 20 years of software development...

Eaton:
Eaton bought Moeller few years ago. Moeller had DriveSoft - nice, small program for configuring Frequency Inverters. The program had one problem: It had Moeller Logo, not Eaton's.
So, Eaton created a crap called MaxConnect. This crappy soft is 100 times bigger, 10 times slower and does *exactly* the same thing as DriveSoft did. MaxConnect needs over 900KB to save drive parameters, and DriveSoft needs <30KB

DotNet rulez - You can write shitty software in a convenient and comfortable way.

...and of course unaware customers will cover all the costs.

[マーズ maazu]

C.

Wrong.
C and assembler.

The only way to save/restore CPU "context" is to use assembly language - and this is the *only* possible way to implement multi-tasking and threads...

Regards.

oh yes, assembler. Thank you for the reminder.

[GarryRicketson]

assembler

? Do you mean assembly ?

First released in 1971, Unix was written entirely in assembly language as it was common practice at the time.
"assembly" , then cobal, was also important, and fortran is used developing a OS, Pascal is also a very usefull language, there are many others
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran

Anyone interested in programing languages besides just C++, this is a list of them,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generatio ... _languages

[geekosupremo]

You have to know HOW THE COMPUTER WORKS (just a hint )
...And how to switch processes stacks to implement a very basic multi-threading OS...

If folks are looking for an overview of "how computers work" Steve Gibson and Leo Laporte did a nice succinct series on this topic in 2010. Probably not enough to call it a "course" but it might get someone in the right direction.

https://www.grc.com/sn/past/2010.htm

The episodes you'll want are 233, 235, 237,239,241, 247, 250, 252, and 254

[tomazzi]

https://www.grc.com/sn/past/2010.htm

The episodes you'll want are 233, 235, 237,239,241, 247, 250, 252, and 254

Forgive me, but those links are leading to a bullshit-littered, power-point-like presentations, which can make You only confused - really, I've readed all of the topics which You've proposed - bullshits, but painted with a color of "professionalism"...

Best sources: read particular processor specification, published by the manufacturer - there are many of them...

Additional resources: read programmer's guide's published f.e. by ATMEL, AMD or Intel - inside those docs You'll find many references to "how the CPU works" topics, with detailed explanations.

Regards.