Scheduled Maintenance: We are aware of an issue with Google, AOL, and Yahoo services as email providers which are blocking new registrations. We are trying to fix the issue and we have several internal and external support tickets in process to resolve the issue. Please see: viewtopic.php?t=158230

 

 

 

Debian PPAs (please no)

User discussion about Debian Development, Debian Project News and Announcements. Not for support questions.
Message
Author
User avatar
fireExit
Posts: 559
Joined: 2014-11-20 11:22

Re: Debian PPAs (please no)

#81 Post by fireExit »

Deshapria wrote:That's not exactly Debian's proposal, but another user's proposal. This user is proposing that the Debian users should have a user created archive.
but that is Debian: an association of users.
Deshapria wrote:When we add-apt-repository ppa:some/ppa, it directs to a Debian repo, the one we are using
if i understand correctly what you are saying here, no.
when you use add-apt you are adding an Ubuntu external repo and pulling packages from there [alongside with dependencies that might come from the debian archive]

and then this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
Please do not report bugs about software in PPAs.
This is because software in PPAs are not provided by the official Ubuntu repositories, and in turn not supported. Instead, the PPA homepage would have a contact point and preference of the PPA provider. The exception is LibreOffice as per this mail, as LibreOffice is too big to be tracked via email: as described in the mail, file a bug on Launchpad with tag ppa.

Deshapria
Posts: 50
Joined: 2015-07-19 08:36

Re: Debian PPAs (please no)

#82 Post by Deshapria »

fireExit wrote:
Deshapria wrote:That's not exactly Debian's proposal, but another user's proposal. This user is proposing that the Debian users should have a user created archive.
but that is Debian: an association of users.
Good. And, what is a PPA and the guys, who create them? Some sort of an association of Ubuntu users?
and then this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
Please do not report bugs about software in PPAs. ...
That's not a Debian or Debian users' problem.

By the way, the OP says "Debian PPAs, (please no)" NOT Ubuntu PPAs (please no).
I am for Debian PPAs, or whatever the name would be, and I agree with that Debian user's proposal (your link.) We should have that kind of Debian user's association. Or we are too old fashioned?

User avatar
fireExit
Posts: 559
Joined: 2014-11-20 11:22

Re: Debian PPAs (please no)

#83 Post by fireExit »

Deshapria wrote:what is a PPA and the guys, who create them? Some sort of an association of Ubuntu users?
you should look the official documentation or some semi-official documentation [there's more, a lot more]
The point that i'm trying to make is two-fold:
1. anyone (and i mean anyone) can create and publish a PPA; [and this is one of the main differences with the system Debian is discussing]
2. you should research more.
Deshapria wrote:
and then this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
Please do not report bugs about software in PPAs. ...
That's not a Debian or Debian users' problem.
you mis-understood; if not even Ubuntu supports PPA's! [because let's be clear, that's exactly what that means: it's there for you to use but don't come knock at our door if something wrong happens]

Deshapria
Posts: 50
Joined: 2015-07-19 08:36

Re: Debian PPAs (please no)

#84 Post by Deshapria »

fireExit wrote:
Deshapria wrote:what is a PPA and the guys, who create them? Some sort of an association of Ubuntu users?
you should look the official documentation or some semi-official documentation [there's more, a lot more]
The point that i'm trying to make is two-fold:
1. anyone (and i mean anyone) can create and publish a PPA; [and this is one of the main differences with the system Debian is discussing]
2. you should research more.
Deshapria wrote:
and then this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
Please do not report bugs about software in PPAs. ...
That's not a Debian or Debian users' problem.
you mis-understood; if not even Ubuntu supports PPA's! [because let's be clear, that's exactly what that means: it's there for you to use but don't come knock at our door if something wrong happens]
No, I haven't!
All those links are for Ubuntu users, not for Debian.
The OP is about Debian PPAs, not Ubuntu PPas, at least the subject line says so.
If anyone wants to install Ubuntu apps, PPAs or whatever, they do it at their own risk--using any Linux OS is at our own risk.
The question is do we agree to have Debian PPAs (or whatever the name). I do. And, in the future I'd look into MX repos for ready made apps. Do you agree?

User avatar
fireExit
Posts: 559
Joined: 2014-11-20 11:22

Re: Debian PPAs (please no)

#85 Post by fireExit »

Deshapria wrote: Personally;
I like PPAs, I use PPAs in Debian and I like these "wannabe" developers. Without these wannabe developers, there won't be development. I would like to see a Debian Personal Package Archive, so I don't have to dig in to Ubuntu PPAs, so I could just add-apt-repository and apt-get them.
Deshapria wrote: The question is whether PPAs are OK for Debian. The OP says "please no." I find PPAs quite useful.

Deshapria
Posts: 50
Joined: 2015-07-19 08:36

Re: Debian PPAs (please no)

#86 Post by Deshapria »

fireExit wrote:
Deshapria wrote: Personally;
I like PPAs, I use PPAs in Debian and I like these "wannabe" developers. Without these wannabe developers, there won't be development. I would like to see a Debian Personal Package Archive, so I don't have to dig in to Ubuntu PPAs, so I could just add-apt-repository and apt-get them.
Deshapria wrote: The question is whether PPAs are OK for Debian. The OP says "please no." I find PPAs quite useful.
Exactly. :)

exploder
Posts: 94
Joined: 2011-01-08 13:53
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Debian PPAs (please no)

#87 Post by exploder »

I think ppas are necessary for some use cases. LibreOffice comes to mind because new versions offer better compatibility and often lots of bug fixes. I would just like to see ppa repos for extremely common base packages like this. Things like your browser and e-mail client are updated so why not update the most common things that people use everyday? I am not saying these packages should be rushed to be updated, they should be tested of course.

As it is right now updating LibreOffice in Debian can be challenging to say the least. If there were a ppa for LibreOffice it would make things much easier and it would be an option that is not forced on anyone that wants to stay with a more heavily tested default set of packages. Maybe including ppa repos would encourage more people to package for Debian? Certainly guidelines would be put in place to assure a certain level of quality is maintained.

This is all nothing more than opinion on my part, I have no influence what so ever on the powers to be. I do think ppa repos could benefit both Debian and the community in the long run though.

User avatar
geoaraujo
Posts: 32
Joined: 2015-07-04 22:25

Re: Debian PPAs (please no)

#88 Post by geoaraujo »

exploder wrote:As it is right now updating LibreOffice in Debian can be challenging to say the least.
It's not that hard at all:

Code: Select all

apt-get -t jessie-backports install libreoffice
Debian 12

KDE Plasma 5.26.4
Dell Inspiron 7572 Intel i7-8550U CPU 1.8 GHz 64-bit Integrated Graphics 16GB ram

TDE R14.0.13
Acer TravelMate B117-M Intel Celeron N3060 2.48GHz 64-bit Integrated Graphics 4GB ram

millpond
Posts: 698
Joined: 2014-06-25 04:56

Re: Debian PPAs (please no)

#89 Post by millpond »

Deshapria wrote:
fireExit wrote:
shevegen wrote:add-apt-repository ppa:some/ppa
Debian's proposal [already linked in this topic] is not to use Launchpad PPA's and probably not even the name PPA
That's not exactly Debian's proposal, but another user's proposal. This user is proposing that the Debian users should have a user created archive.

The problem is Ubuntu has such an archive, and the website that hosts the archive is owned by Cannonical, and that these files has .deb ending.

We are told, we shouldn't use them, but if we look inside the .deb package, we'd see what that package is depending on. If we can find the dependencies in Debain repos, why not use them?

When we add-apt-repository ppa:some/ppa, it directs to a Debian repo, the one we are using, and not to an Ubuntu repo, so it would either pull dependencies from the Debian repo(s), or say it cannot be installed, or say find some dependencies. Most of those dependencies can be found in https://packages.debian.org, so what the problem in installing and trying out that user created app, even though it was created with Ubuntu in mind?
There is no central PPA repository any more. All PPA 'repos's are now directed to the sites of the individual developers, mostly apparently at Canonical's git-like Bazaar site.
Its possible that a few Debian packages not included in Ubuntu may be sourced from Debian, but it is unlikely to be too common.

Probably the best way to use a PPA is to compile the source from bazaar (joining is free): If it works, fine - if not - it might be best to pass on it, or find out if the required libraries are likely to cause any compatibility problems.

I believe that under no conditions should any of these packages from Ubuntu, bazaar, or anywhere elese be labelled .deb as this gives the false impression that they are compatible with Debian - which many are not. Hells bells even many of the install scripts and the Bash variant seem *different* and incompatible. RPMs are probably more compatible, and at least they have Alien.

User avatar
@zephyr
Posts: 18
Joined: 2014-09-17 21:34
Location: Apache, Oklahoma USA

Re: Debian PPAs (please no)

#90 Post by @zephyr »

I would have to vote "NO" on the PPAs, regardless the label that maybe used. But, there are plenty of apps in the Debian repository that is developed and maintained by individuals. These apps are tested before entering the repository. A PPA on the other hand does not, and may conflict with other software, unmet dependencies, and could cause complete havoc on a system. The ubuntu websites concerning PPAs issue warnings about the PPA practice and suggest using the Download Center. PPA allows you to add an untested source for software to your source list, this to me is insane practice if you care about your install. This is unless you have plenty of time and enjoy formatting and have nothing worthwhile on your system.

I do not particularly like systemd, but Debian needs not to put more misery on the table for it's users with this nonsense of PPAs. We have sid, and stretch, which offer the cutting bleeding edge of dependable software, not always perfect, but prefer running sid. It always works itself out and an awesome install it is to have.

I can only suggest to anyone, don't put anything from another source on your PC that you don't know anything about, or need to have it. I never add from outside sources, this is trouble and cannot guarantee just what you install. It's all about unmet dependencies and may not effect anything at the present, but could interfere with later updates-upgrades of your current Debian apps and base installation. Don't shoot yourself in the foot. Hurts like hell and makes getting around difficult.
ZephyrLinux

Post Reply