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[Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

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bertenvdb
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[Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#1 Post by bertenvdb »

Hi,

I'm relatively new to Gnu/Linux. Been using Debian Wheezy/Jessie, Crunchbang and BunsenLabs for about 2.5 years now.I was wondering why gnuzilla or icecat aren't available to install using repositories?

Not being able to install Gnuzilla or it's components through aptitude or apt seems a bit strange. Obviously, I like to keep packages such as these up-to-date for security reasons but having to regularly check this manually, this seems so big a hassle to do without apt.

What am I missing here?
Last edited by bertenvdb on 2015-10-14 02:08, edited 1 time in total.

cronoik
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Re: Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#2 Post by cronoik »

You aren't missing anything. Nobody has packaged icecat or gnuzilla for Debian and therefore it isn't in the officialy repositories. As far as I know there is also no third party repository which you can use with apt. It looks like debianites are happy with Iceweasel and Icedove. :)
Have a nice day!

pcalvert
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Re: Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#3 Post by pcalvert »

The full GNUzilla is not actively updated. The last release of full GNUzilla was 24.0, on October 16, 2013. "The current focus is on GNU IceCat, our browser derived from Mozilla Firefox."
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnuzilla

I recommend using SeaMonkey instead of GNUzilla.

Phil
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bertenvdb
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Re: Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#4 Post by bertenvdb »

That makes sense.

I've been using Iceweasel and Icedove since I've switched to Linux and am very happy with them.

Why I asked this:
I'm a network guy and knew Linux was out there but never really saw a reason to use something other than Windows. Until one day I stumbled upon the GNU Manifest... The next morning I woke up and just needed to finally try out Linux and it changed my (computer) life :D Obviously, after having switched to Linux I've discovered so much more reasons to never look back.
But my primary reason, being the GNU manifest, is still something I believe in. That's why I just wanted to try GNUzilla. But Iceweasel and Icedove is 'GNU enough' for me :wink: I've used Seamonkey for a short while and thought it was OK but for reason ended up using IW/ID again.

I guess I could have done my homework a little better and find this out myself. Thank you for the clear answers.

theltalpha
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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#5 Post by theltalpha »

Anyway, this is still no explanation why nobody thought about making packages for IceCat on Debian. There are still reasons why this would be helpful, be it because Iceweasel is still not "GNU enough" for some, be it because IceCat incorporates more security improvements than Iceweasel. I myself would love to see IcaCat being included in the official Debian repositories, since I ran into compilation difficulties recently (see http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=126312).

FuzzyToothpaste
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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#6 Post by FuzzyToothpaste »

I think that having GNUzilla would be a great idea. It would be nice to use a browser that comes with LibreJS and other protections. And by the way, GNUzilla and IceCat are still being maintained. They just came out with version 38.5.2 (http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gnuzilla/38.5.2/).

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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#7 Post by pcalvert »

FuzzyToothpaste wrote:And by the way, GNUzilla and IceCat are still being maintained. They just came out with version 38.5.2 (http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gnuzilla/38.5.2/).
I briefly thought the same thing -- until I looked a little closer. Look at the names of the files at that link you posted. It appears to me that that the gnuzilla "directory" is probably just a symbolic link to the icecat directory. It looks like only Icecat is still being maintained.

Phil
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theltalpha
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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#8 Post by theltalpha »

Yes, actually it is only IceCat which is being maintained, so the question is why isn't IceCat in Debian repositories?

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HuangLao
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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#9 Post by HuangLao »

competition for iceweasel perhaps?

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thanatos_incarnate
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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#10 Post by thanatos_incarnate »

Why would it be included? It's Iceweasel with a different branding and a few extras
which you can just as well install on your own.
Wikipedia article on IceCat wrote: Additional security features

IceCat includes additional security features, such as the option to block third party zero-length image files resulting in third party cookie, also known as web bugs[8] (This feature is available in Firefox 1.0, 1.5, and 3.0, but the UI option was absent on 2.0).[8] GNU IceCat also provides warnings for URL redirection.[8]

In version 3.0.2-g1, the certificate of CAcert.org, a certificate authority, has been added to the list of trusted root certificates. Concern[according to whom?] about that decision has been raised in a discussion on the savannah-hackers-public mailing list.[19]

The GNU LibreJS extension detects and blocks nonfree nontrivial JavaScript.

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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#11 Post by L_V »

If it can help:

How to install IceCat GNUzilla browser in Debian distro ?
http://www.thegeeky.space/2016/05/how-t ... istro.html

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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#12 Post by stevepusser »

L_V wrote:If it can help:

How to install IceCat GNUzilla browser in Debian distro ?
http://www.thegeeky.space/2016/05/how-t ... istro.html
Great, another random blog that thinks Ubuntu and Debian are the same thing and the repos are interchangeable.

https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian

Just search for "how to install icecat" on this forum, and you will find a thread within the first two results that has the answer.
MX Linux packager and developer

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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#13 Post by L_V »

The request is not "how to install Icecat" but looking for an Icecat Debian repository.
Of course Icecat can be installed without any repositories, like Firefox.

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RU55EL
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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#14 Post by RU55EL »

L_V wrote:If it can help:

How to install IceCat GNUzilla browser in Debian distro ?
http://www.thegeeky.space/2016/05/how-t ... istro.html
This link points to an article called: "How to install IceCat GNUzilla browser in Ubuntu and other Debian distro."

Anyone reading it, in the context of the Debian operating system, should also read the link posted by Stevepusser: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
L_V wrote:The request is not "how to install Icecat" but looking for an Icecat Debian repository.
Of course Icecat can be installed without any repositories, like Firefox.
The link you posted implies installation.

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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#15 Post by stevepusser »

L_V wrote:The request is not "how to install Icecat" but looking for an Icecat Debian repository.
Of course Icecat can be installed without any repositories, like Firefox.
If you had searched these forums like I suggested, the second result is a thread that has the instructions to add a Debian Icecat repo maintained on the openSUSE Build Service by yrs truly. The OBS will be having a planned outage this weekend....seems that they are down right now, too.
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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#16 Post by GarryRicketson »

by stevepusser »
If you had searched these forums like I suggested, the second result is a thread that has the instructions to add a Debian Icecat repo maintained on the openSUSE Build Service by yrs truly. The OBS will be having a planned outage this weekend....seems that they are down right now, too.

You mean this ? https://software.opensuse.org/download. ... age=icecat

I saw it yesterday, looks like a good solution. Unfortunately, yes the site is
" currently down for maintenance. ", but I know from my own experience it is reliable and will be back up in a couple of days , if not sooner.

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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#17 Post by stevepusser »

GarryRicketson wrote:
by stevepusser »
If you had searched these forums like I suggested, the second result is a thread that has the instructions to add a Debian Icecat repo maintained on the openSUSE Build Service by yrs truly. The OBS will be having a planned outage this weekend....seems that they are down right now, too.

You mean this ? https://software.opensuse.org/download. ... age=icecat

I saw it yesterday, looks like a good solution. Unfortunately, yes the site is
" currently down for maintenance. ", but I know from my own experience it is reliable and will be back up in a couple of days , if not sooner.
Awww, you gave out the link. I'm trying to "teach a man to fish" with these hints. I went to all the trouble of getting IceCat to build in that repo, which really wasn't simple, so I'd prefer the OP at least make some minimal effort to find it, instead of expecting me to carry him the rest of the way. :D
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GarryRicketson
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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#18 Post by GarryRicketson »

Oops, well sorry about that, I noticed it last night when I was doing some
searches on this, I did kind of wonder why you had not just posted a link to
it, now I understand.

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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#19 Post by L_V »

Well, you are right, you should never give external repositories in a sub-section of "Beginners questions". My bad, I did not notice it.
However risk is very limited because Icecat deb package from OpenSuse repo has been disabled, as you can see.

Image

A Debian system should be kept as clean as possible, and these commands should help for those who already added external repositories:

Code: Select all

## as root / sudo ##
sed -i '/debian/!d' /etc/apt/sources.list
rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*
apt-get update
Now, to be said off the record only, risks are very limited for Mozilla forks, because serious packagers try to make deb's file the most compatible as possible for so called "Debian compatible distro".

Look at Vivaldi example: http://repo.vivaldi.com/stable/deb/pool/main/
A vivaldi deb file will even automatically add the vivaldi site to sources.list: I don't like that so much without any warning, but it is a fact, and it works both for Debian, Ubuntu and others compatible.
There are a lot of example like this.
Generally speaking, Debian users are supposed to know how to manage an apt system, and again, the risk is minor for a Mozilla fork which is far to be a core system component.

@stevepusser
If you are so scared with these Debian "compatible" packages, you can download a "compatible" deb file and try this as root:

Code: Select all

dpkg -i --simulate my_scary_package.deb
and analyze the output. It will give you a risk estimation.

... of course you can make specific packages for your Ubuntu and Debian systems, if you have a lot of free time.
However, the question is: where to put your files ?
You can be sure that nobody would have the crazy idea to look for a "pure" and trusted Debian package on a OpenSuse server (may be few people visiting this forum, and that's all).

Where should be the packages ?
1 - Ubuntu: packages not avalaible in Ubuntu repositories are proposed in "PPA" (Personal Package Archives)
=> What are PPAs and how do I use them?

2 - Debian packages => only one place: Debian repositories, and nowhere else => Dont Break Debian

Now, if Icecat is not in the Debian repositories, it is may be simply because Debian is looking for manpower !!
Even Thunderbird should currently be release 52.4, but still 52.3 in SID => clear manpower problem.

=> Call for volunteers for a new Debian support project
=> Debian Integrated Support System

Good contribution.

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Re: [Solved] Why isn't Gnuzilla in Debian repositories

#20 Post by stevepusser »

Somehow I trust myself enough to recommend a repository that I maintain myself. I'm funny that way. As well for all the packages I do for MX Linux and on the OBS, like the Pale Moon browser, or the new backports one for the Liquorix kernel for various distreleases, since the regular 4.13 version's headers now need gcc-7, which is not in Stretch.

If you can point to some free and hopefully easy to use build and hosting system for various distros that's as good as the OBS, I am willing to test it. The main Debian repo is not that.

If you follow that link, you see that there is indeed an "icecat" package for Stretch in my repo. If the package does not get built and put into the repo, the instructions for the repo don't get generated. Due to some technical issues, I had to put the source in a separate package for distros that don't have hardening-wrapper in the repos any longer, but the "icecat" package still gets built: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show ... etch-zesty
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