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operating systems without systemd

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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GarryRicketson
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#261 Post by GarryRicketson »

Fortunately there are a plenty of options for those that do not want to use a systemd based OS,
Thanks for sharing this one H_O_A_S, that is a new one to me but it looks interesting.
and Happy New year every one,
As long as there are non-systemd linux kernals available, there are plenty of options, for those willing to explore those options.
This is something that fascinates me about computers, really the options are almost infinite.

There are quite a few options listed here:
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
And congratulations, to the "Devuan" team, I see it listed in the above url,
Devuan

mittgreen
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#262 Post by mittgreen »

GarryRicketson wrote:Fortunately there are a plenty of options for those that do not want to use a systemd based OS,
Thanks for sharing this one H_O_A_S, that is a new one to me but it looks interesting.
and Happy New year every one,
As long as there are non-systemd linux kernals available, there are plenty of options, for those willing to explore those options.
This is something that fascinates me about computers, really the options are almost infinite.

There are quite a few options listed here:
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
And congratulations, to the "Devuan" team, I see it listed in the above url,
Devuan
Heh, as long as systemd is not in the kernel yet, all kernels are systemd-free :lol:

without-systemd.org is, as I believe, kind of unofficial Devuan wiki, no wonder it is in the list; their repositories are mentioned in how-tos also.

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GarryRicketson
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#263 Post by GarryRicketson »

Heh, as long as systemd is not in the kernel yet, all kernels are systemd-free
I think you are missing the whole point, maybe just "trolling" , ?
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... 87#p590475
or trying to argue for the sake of argument,? If that is the case, don't bother with me, I don't like the "game" so I won't play, Anyway, yea, your right,! and I know what you mean man,..what ever you say.

The point is there are many options, for those that do not want to use systemd,
we can take a linux kernel, of our choice, and build on it , and develop what ever
kind of OS or distro, we choose. The choices are with out limit.
And there is quite a few all ready made distros, available.

mittgreen
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#264 Post by mittgreen »

GarryRicketson wrote:
Heh, as long as systemd is not in the kernel yet, all kernels are systemd-free
I think you are missing the whole point, maybe just "trolling" , ?
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... 87#p590475
or trying to argue for the sake of argument,? If that is the case, don't bother with me, I don't like the "game" so I won't play, Anyway, yea, your right,! and I know what you mean man,..what ever you say.

The point is there are many options, for those that do not want to use systemd,
we can take a linux kernel, of our choice, and build on it , and develop what ever
kind of OS or distro, we choose. The choices are with out limit.
And there is quite a few all ready made distros, available.
It is not, was not and will not be a trolling whatsoever. There I asked questions but no one even tried to response. Forget it.

Here I miss your point, sorry about the "rant" (hype).

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keithpeter
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#265 Post by keithpeter »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:^ Don't be silly ew, haven't you heard?
2016 is the year of the plan9 desktop :lol:
Be very careful about making wishes. They might come true. :twisted:.

Back on topic: Lightweight Personal Security is an interesting live-only thin-station based Linux for people to boot off when they want to contact home base without having to lug a laptop around. Dumb user session, no root, no package management, just an updated version every 3 months or so, you get Firefox, LibreOffice, mtpaint, totem and some communications applications including Citrix and RDP.

With large organisations going over to PXE boot and the prevalence of VPNs for remote working, this could be a way forward. Just patch your master image and push it out to the users... the included software covers 95% of my use cases.

Happy New Year All

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Re: operating systems without systemd

#266 Post by arochester »

Lightweight Personal Security
Last updated October 2014...

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oswaldkelso
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#267 Post by oswaldkelso »

I think we're going off topic. But I don't see how a distro that needs intel and the USAF can be trusted at a core level.
http://libreboot.org/faq/#intel
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keithpeter
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#268 Post by keithpeter »

arochester wrote:
Lightweight Personal Security
Last updated October 2014...
http://www.spi.dod.mil/lipose.htm

The .iso itself is dated 07 Dec 2015, the Web pages and documentation have older dates presumably reflecting their last update. It is running a 3.10.something kernel so one would imagine security only patches &c.
oswaldkelso wrote:I think we're going off topic. But I don't see how a distro that needs intel and the USAF can be trusted at a core level.
http://libreboot.org/faq/#intel
I take your point, and appreciate your support of/advocacy for libreboot, and I think I'll start a new thread so as not to derail this one any further.

Happy new year.

spacex
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#269 Post by spacex »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:^ Don't be silly ew, haven't you heard?

2016 is the year of the plan9 desktop :lol:
LOL. I should be more precise. Less choice for the average user. People with skills will always manage. Then again, the average user might not care whether they use this or that, but that's a dangerous thought to use as a guide-line to develop "The Universal OS". "Most of them don't care, so it doesn't matter?"

Anyways, I'll manage. But I dislike the direction of Linux in general today. Which pretty much is to follow Windows in whatever misguided direction MS walks in.

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Re: operating systems without systemd

#270 Post by HuangLao »

you could always check out http://www.slackware.com/ or http://www.salixos.org/ if you want to avoid systemd.

Of course you can use sysv on Debian still or play with Devuan.

spacex
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#271 Post by spacex »

HuangLao wrote:you could always check out http://www.slackware.com/ or http://www.salixos.org/ if you want to avoid systemd.

Of course you can use sysv on Debian still or play with Devuan.
I have no problem avoiding Systemd, but that's besides the point. I'm not talking on behalf of myself, as I am of those that will always manage no matter what.

I don't need a distro to use. I use TweakOS. My own distro. Nothing else. But it's based on Debian, and therefore I decided to go with whatever is the default in Debian. But I'm starting to question if this was the right "choice". Regardless whether I would choose Systemd or not myself, I dislike the way that it has been pushed down on us...

Personally I started to use Systemd many years ago, but the big difference is that back then I did it by choice. And of course that Systemd then started out as a init-system, but has evolved into something that is starting to feel like it's taking over pretty much everything. So you see, it's only now I'm starting to get bad feelings about it...

spacex
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#272 Post by spacex »

I recommend this for anyone looking for a good distro without systemd:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/linnix/

If you love the minimal approach, you will love this :)

xinu
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#273 Post by xinu »

wanna try it , it is installable on usb ?
May the FORK be with you!

i puke slackware ! !

spacex
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#274 Post by spacex »

xinu wrote:
wanna try it , it is installable on usb ?
Yes, it is.

xinu
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#275 Post by xinu »

fruitofloom wrote:BSD (in short: all *BSD ones come without systemd)
http://www.ghostbsd.org/
May the FORK be with you!

i puke slackware ! !

xinu
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#276 Post by xinu »

gnewsense

http://www.gnewsense.org/

RMS' s distro !
May the FORK be with you!

i puke slackware ! !

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Re: operating systems without systemd

#277 Post by oswaldkelso »

xinu wrote:gnewsense

http://www.gnewsense.org/

RMS' s distro !
Nope.

I use a Thinkpad X60 computer, in which the FSF installed a free initialization program (libreboot) and a free operating system (Trisquel GNU/Linux.) This is the first computer model ever to be sold commercially with a free initialization program and a free operating system, and thus the first computer product the FSF could endorse. (It was not sold that way by Lenovo, however.)

Before that, I used the Lemote Yeeloong for several years. At the time, it was the only laptop one could buy that could run a free initialization program and a free operating system. But it was never sold with a free operating system.

Before that, I used an OLPC for some weeks. I stopped because the OLPC project decided to make their machine support Windows, so I did not want to appear to endorse it. The OLPC uses a nonfree firmware blob for the WiFi, so I could not use the internal WiFi device. No big problem, I used an external one.

The results I worried about, millions of children running Windows on the OLPC, have not occurred. Instead we see millions of children running Windows on the Intel Classmate.

Before that I used machines that ran completely free GNU/Linux systems but had nonfree BIOSes. I tried for about 8 years to find a way to avoid the nonfree BIOS.
Gnewsence and Trisquel , while they don't currently use systemd will when they upgrade. There is only one FSF approved distro that is, and aims to remain systemd free and that's Dragora. I'm running the old 2.2 version and it's rock solid and cranky as hell if you want it up to date.

Dragora 3 on the other hand is about to give birth any time soon http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/dragora.git/log/ and that is similar principals but more hardware support..... actually more of everything but it's still not a lot because that's the point. KISS, YAGNI, and DRY are the guiding Principles
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TonyVanDam
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#278 Post by TonyVanDam »

fruitofloom wrote:Debian ports
--------------------
Debian GNU/kFreeBSD
Debian GNU/HURD


Debian based:
-------------------
grml: http://download.grml.org/devel/grml64-f ... 10-rc1.iso (with libsystemd0)
antix: https://sourceforge.net/projects/antix- ... antiX-14R/ (for testing, libsystemd0 ? )
refracta: https://downloads.sourceforge.net/proje ... 7_1300.iso (for testing, without libsystemd0, it's pinned)
exegnulinux: http://exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/
Kali: distro only for pentesters and wannabes.

BSD (in short: all *BSD ones come without systemd)
-------------
FreeBSD
OpenBSD
NetBSD
DragonflyBSD
PC-BSD
MirBSD
TrueOS

Gnu/Linux
----------------
Slackware
Salix
Slax
Porteus
Gentoo
Funtoo
Liberte
Dragora
Crux
PCLinuxOS
Void Linux
Putty
Slitaz
Stella
Pisi

Solaris
----------
Solaris
OpenIndiana
others based on Solaris ...

Other and obscure solutions:
-------------
minix3
haiku
plan9 / inferno
musl-libc based distros (not sure): http://wiki.musl-libc.org/wiki/Projects_using_musl
Windows OS'es
Apple OS'es
FirefoxOS
Android
On the GNU/Linux list, you forgot to add antiX, MX, & LinuxBBQ

On the BSD list, you forgot to add GhostBSD.

TonyVanDam
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#279 Post by TonyVanDam »

fruitofloom wrote:Slightly elder and incomplete list of software which doesn't need systemd (created by Dean, aka mr-aka)
Might be worth a thread on it's own ... am open for suggestions.


preferences file:
Package: *systemd*
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1

basics
xorg
alsa-base
alsa-utils



user environments & components
jwm
icewm
fluxbox
openbox
ratpoison
sawfish

fbpanel
lxpanel

deskmenu

razorqt-desktop
razorqt-panel
razorqt-runner
razorqt-session
razorqt-config



file managers
pcmanfm
xfe
doublecmd-gtk
doublecmd-qt
rox-filer




login manager
xdm
wdm
qingy




ide/editors
geany
scite
mousepad
leafpad


terminals
lxterminal
mrxvt
xterm
rxvt
roxterm


web browsers
iceweasel
chromium
arora
xxxterm
dillo
surf
netsurf
qupzilla


email clients
sylpheed
claws-mail



web software
filezilla
weechat
lostirc
irssi
aria2


office
abiword
gnumeric
osmo


misc
gourmet



audio/video
moc
vlc-nox



utilities
file-roller
xarchiver
grun
pmount
Based upon the most recent d-u, I'm not so sure about Xorg now.

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keithpeter
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#280 Post by keithpeter »

Hello All

Zenwalk Linux 8 beta2 64bit only is basically a very opinionated version of Slackware Linux -current that boots into runlevel 4 and that is based around the xfce4 DE. Zenwalk thus occupies a place on the list of GNU/Linux operating systems that do not depend on systemd at present.

The author (Jean-Philippe Guillemin) is proud of the one application per task approach he has adopted. Libreoffice 5 is included which makes a default install usable directly. In this way, Zenwalk is like Microlinux except with an .iso and modified installer.

You get a 1Gb iso with very a slightly modified version of the Slackware installer (be prepared to use the # prompt to partition using cfdisk before running the setup script, and be prepared to reboot and create a user). Once you have created your user and logged in, you have a graphical package manager called netpkg. A slimmed down Slackware core is all underneath with all the compiler tools and libraries. The modified installer makes installing from a USB stick slightly easier than traditional Slackware as the USB stick option appears in the packages sources list. User creation is also driven through an ncurses dialogue rather than at the terminal prompt.

I was able to revert this installation to actual Slackware -current very easily by setting up a slackpkg mirror and using the usual slackpkg commands so I believe the author when he says it is Slackware with configurations.

http://support.zenwalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=982864

The author explains what Zenwalk 8.0 is about

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/83058.html [Zenwalk 8 Beta Led Me Down a Rocky Road]

A comically bad review of Zenwalk that in my opinion manages to miss the whole point of the distribution's existence. Zenwalk 8 uses the *Slackware* installer and is compatible with *Slackware* by *design*. Any rocks on the road the reviewer took were there because of a lack of research and basic fact gathering. Alas, this review now dominates the Google results for Zenwalk.

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